Risto Stefov - Articles, Translations & Collaborations

**George S.** · 01-03-2013, 07:54 PM

What is the Macedonian Question? - Cutting through the Rhetoric
Risto StefovSeptember 22, 2008
I have often heard references to the Macedonian question without understanding what it really means. Why is the Macedonian question so elusive and mysterious and why has it been thrown around for so long?

The Macedonian question was not a question that Macedonians have asked but rather a question the Great Powers were asking during late nineteenth century when Macedonia was still occupied by the last remnants of the Ottoman Empire. Simply put the Macedonian question was, "What will happen to the Macedonian territories and the people living on those territories when the Ottoman Empire ceases to exist?"

Obviously the Macedonian question was answered in 1912, 1913 when Macedonia was occupied, partitioned and annexed by Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria. Or was it?

If the Macedonian question was answered then, why does it still linger on? And better still, why has it evolved? In view of what is happening today with regards to the Greek-Macedonian name dispute and the Bulgarian refusal to recognize the Macedonian ethnicity and language, it´s time once again to ask, "What is the Macedonian question of today?"

If the Macedonian question was satisfactorily answered by the division of Macedonia and by declaring that only Greeks, Serbs and Bulgarians live in the geographic territories of Macedonia, why then do we today have a sovereign and independent Macedonian State with no less than 1.8 million people declaring themselves to be ethnic Macedonians? Likewise if all those people living in the Macedonian territories that Greece annexed in 1913 were Greeks then why do we today have Macedonians living in Greece? Similarly, if everyone in Bulgarian annexed Macedonia were Bulgarians, why then today do we have Macedonians living in Bulgaria?

We can all bury our heads in the sand and keep on believing "no Macedonians exist" to the satisfaction of Greece and Bulgaria, or we can wake up to the reality that ethnic Macedonians do exist not only in the Republic of Macedonia but in all of geographic Macedonia, including the Greek and Bulgarian annexed territories.

Being made aware of that reality, then what will the "new Macedonian question" be that the new Great Powers should be asking?

Before answering this question, we should take a look at what was done to "answer" the original "Macedonian question" and what has changed to lead to the "new Macedonian question".

Before the breakup of the Ottoman Empire the Great Powers were preoccupied with how to maintain political stability in the region. Being itself a Great Power, as the Ottoman Empire began to break up, the other Great Powers struggled to maintain a balance of power without themselves losing influence and at the same time looking for ways to expand their own influence. There was agreement between the Powers that should the Ottoman Empire collapse they would not allow its replacement to be a single state or another Great Power. Thus the "Eastern Question" was born which simply put stated, "What will happen to the lands and people when the Ottoman Empire ceases to exist?" The only acceptable solution was to replace the Ottoman lands with smaller states that could not possibly unite. In other words "create a number of smaller, equal sized, politically diverse" states that would oppose one another and remain loyal to the Great Powers that created them.

As the Ottoman Empire began to wear down at its fringes, Greece and Serbia were born. As it continued to collapse greater Bulgaria was born but it was a short lived birth. The Powers could not agree on San Stefano Bulgaria because for one, it was much larger than the other two newly created states and being created by Russia, Bulgaria would show loyalty to Russia and would allow Russia, a rival Great Power, greater influence in the Balkans as well as access to the Mediterranean waters, something the Western Powers did not want. Instead, a smaller Bulgaria was created and the Ottoman collapse was somewhat stabilized and its territory in the Balkans reduced to present day geographical Macedonia, Albania, Thrace and European Turkey (the Dardanelles).

By now no one had any doubts that the remainder of the Ottoman Empire was going to collapse, it was a matter of time. This created new worries for the Great Powers, "What to do with the remainder of the lands, especially with Macedonia." This gave birth to the "Macedonian Question". Simply put "what will happen to Macedonia and the Macedonian people" when the Ottoman Empire disappears? Of course, as I mention earlier, the problem was solved by allowing Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria to annex parts of Macedonia and its people. Since Macedonia was an existing entity with defined borders, a long and illustrious history, and with ethnic Macedonians living on it, it was difficult to find dividing lines. So Macedonia´s eventuality was decided by conflict. The three states were allowed to simultaneously invade Macedonia and whichever parts they liberated by evicting the Turks they would get to keep for themselves. The invasion took place in 1912 and resulted in the successful eviction of the last remnants of the Ottoman Empire. Unfortunately none of the three states were happy with the territories they gained so once again they renewed the conflict in 1913 resulting in the current partition and annexation of Macedonia which exists to this day.

No matter what Greece and Bulgaria claim today about how they acquired their part of Macedonia, it is a well known fact that Macedonian territories were a prize from the spoils of war. The 1913 Treaty of Bucharest, and how it was achieved, is a living testament that Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria fought over Macedonia and gained its lands by conflict. No historical claims were ever made prior to or during the signing of the 1913 Treaty of Bucharest.

It is a well known fact that neither Greece, Serbia, nor Bulgaria ever existed before as sovereign states. Bulgaria and Serbia existed as empires encompassing parts of Macedonian territories but it is well understood that these territories were occupied by force and never belonged to them. Greece on the other hand had never before occupied or owned Macedonian lands. That is why Greece has resorted to using the ancient Macedonians from 2,300 years ago to claim "historic rights" to Macedonian territories. Greece it seems can only claim legitimacy to Macedonian territories and to the Macedonian heritage if it can prove to the world that the "Ancient Macedonians were Greek". While ignoring the reality of how it obtained Macedonian territories, Greece has taken the argument back 2,300 years and is fighting a war of words, semantics, as to who is the real heir to the Macedonian heritage. Greece is ignoring the facts that Macedonians lived in Macedonia for countless generations or at least 1,500 years by its own accounts. Greece knows very well that no one cares about what happened 2,300 years ago. And why does it matter? Why argue semantics while ignoring reality? Arguing semantics suits Greece and Bulgaria perfectly because while the Macedonians are arguing over semantics Greece and Bulgaria (1) continue to make them look like fools and (2) continue to benefit from Macedonia´s occupation to the detriment of its true owners the Macedonian people.

Let´s clarify some things. First and foremost Macedonians are people with legal rights and privileges no matter what Greece and Bulgaria call them. Second, these people indisputably lived in Macedonia for at least 1,500 years which is more than enough to qualify them as the indigenous people of Macedonia. These people, according to international law, have the right to self identify in whatever way or means they see fit. So what is the problem with Greece and Bulgaria?

The real problem here is not whether Macedonians qualify to be called Macedonians but rather, whether Greece has the right and can prove it has the right to the Macedonian heritage. Does Greece truly have a case by claiming "Macedonia is Greek" on account that the "Ancient Macedonians may or may not have been Greek in 400 BC"? Greece only has a case as long as Macedonians believe it has a case and continue to argue with Greece over frivolous issues! Do the Macedonian people have a case against Greece for losing their lands to Greece because Greece chose to illegally occupy Macedonia by force in 1912, 1913? Yes they do! If Macedonians stop fighting with Greece about 2,400 year old issues and begin to focus their efforts on today´s real issues then they can expect to gain international attention and achieve their rights as Macedonians living on this planet!

Even though Macedonia was served on a platter to Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria by the Great Powers in 1913 by the Treaty of Bucharest and again in 1919 by the Treaty of Versailles, does not change the fact that Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria gained Macedonian lands illegally by force and without the consent of the Macedonian people.

Do the Macedonian people have a strong case against Greece and Bulgaria? The answer is yes! Macedonians can prove that Macedonians have been evicted from their lands and their lands have been confiscated only because they are Macedonians. Macedonians can prove that both Greece and Bulgaria have broken treaties which Greece and Bulgaria have signed to provide Macedonians minority rights. Macedonians can prove that Greece and Bulgaria continue to disobey international law by not recognizing the ethnic Macedonians in their respective states. Case and point, the Greek State passed a law in 1988 allowing all Greeks by birth to return to Greece but not the 28,000 Macedonia refugee children, refugees from the Greek Civil War. These were children between the ages of 2 and 14. They are not criminals or agents of foreign states. Greece has yet to explain why these children, who now are all over 60 years old, are not allowed to return. Why is Greece on one hand claiming that everyone who lived in Greece since 1928 is Greek and on the other hand it passes a law that discriminates against non-Greeks who supposedly do not exist? Greece will not allow Macedonians to return to Greece because Greece has confiscated and sold or given away their lands to the colonists it imported from Asia Minor in the 1920s and is still importing to this day.

The name dispute between Macedonia and Greece is a fabricated issue, fabricated by Greece to take attention away from its dismal human rights record towards its minorities, especially its Macedonian minority which Greece has robbed of its heritage. Greece has created this issue to keep Macedonians on the defensive and away from seeking compensation for their lands or to fight for their human rights as ethnic Macedonians and as citizens of that state. There is no international law or precedence that would allow legally or morally for a state to evict people from their lands and rob them of their property and ethnic rights based on 2,400 year old "ambiguous claims". Besides, how do we know for certain and how can we prove that the modern Greeks truly have legitimate rights to the Macedonian lands and heritage? How do we know that the Macedonians themselves who lived in Macedonia for at least 1,500 years have no rights to Macedonian lands and the Macedonian heritage? Are we to take the word of a state who denies the Macedonian peoples´ existence? Are we to believe Greece, a state that has robbed the ethnic Macedonians of their ethnic rights? Who has evicted Macedonians from their own homes? Who has changed all the Macedonian names? Who has tried to make Macedonians into Greeks by force? I think not!

Since Macedonians are placed in a position where they have to justify their identity wouldn´t you say it is only fair that Greeks be put through the same scrutiny? How can a person by simply saying that they are "Greek" own the right to both the Greek and Macedonian heritage yet a person who says they are Macedonian has no rights at all, not even the right to call him or herself Macedonian?

How did all this start and what has changed since?

As mentioned earlier, Greece is a product of Great Power intervention. It was artificially created for the first time in 1829 from the ashes of the crumbling Ottoman Empire. I am saying "artificially created" because most states when created are modeled after something vibrant and living, like a living culture or a practicing tradition. The language a newly created state adopts for its people is usually a living language or the mother language of the people. If more than one language exists, it´s usually the language of the majority that is adopted. Some states to be fair to all people are bi-lingual or even multi-lingual. Greece, on the other hand, was modeled after a dead culture which existed 2,400 years ago. The language the Greek state adopted for its people was also a dead language which was only preserved by the Ottoman administration and the Orthodox Church. The name "Greece" itself is also a non-Greek word. It is a Latin word.

When Greece was created for the first time there was no Greek ethnicity. The 19th century ethnicities that comprised the raw material for the modern Greek state were Albanians, Vlachs, Turks, Macedonians and other Slav speakers, Christians from Asia Minor, Gypsies and other ethnic minorities. Each ethnicity that comprised the so-called "Greek ethnos" was not Greek and each spoke a unique language different from the others.

It is understandable that in order to unify these various people under one nation the Greek state had to undertake some measures in order to keep a balance between the needs of the individual against those of the state. Unfortunately, in its zeal to create a mythical nation modeled after a dead culture which only could be viewed as ideal, Greece went too far. It not only literally destroyed what was real but it also attempted to erase the peoples´ collective memory about their current culture, language and history and replace it with an ideal and fictitious one. For example in Macedonia, after Greece consolidated its control over the people, it initiated a denationalization process by eliminating the spoken and written form of the Macedonian language and replaced it with the dead language it adopted for its own people. It destroyed all records, books, monuments, religious icons, even tombstones with Macedonian writing. It changed peoples´ names and gave the people new and Greek sounding names. It changed all the names of the cities, towns, villages, lakes, rivers, mountains and roads to make them look "ancient Greek". The prohibition of the Macedonian language and identity as well as the name changes were enforced by the passing of laws which exist and are enforced to this day.

In other words, Greece is Greek today not by birthright or any legal means but simply by enforcing an idea, the idea that everyone who lives in Greece is Greek.

Unlike Greece which created its "ethnos" by destroying the true ethnicities of its people, Macedonia has a living and vibrant Macedonian ethnicity. Ethnic Macedonians in the entire region of geographic Macedonia have a mother tongue comprising of at least 26 dialects. Macedonians have a living language which is at least 1,500 years old. In spite of Greek attempts to eradicate it, the Macedonian language has survived and is widely spoken today. The publication of the Abecedar, a Macedonian language primer, published by the Greek state itself in 1925 is a testament that Macedonians and their Macedonian language existed in Greece.

Macedonians in Greece and Bulgaria have refused to join the newly created "ethnos" for various reasons. The primary reason is because they are not Bulgarians or Greeks. Remember Macedonia was occupied and partitioned by foreign forces without Macedonian consent. In other words, no one asked the Macedonians if they wanted their country to be occupied and partitioned. There are no treaties signed by Macedonians giving Greece and Bulgaria permission to annex Macedonian territories. On top of that, no one asked the Macedonians if they wanted to become Greeks or Bulgarians voluntarily. Macedonians were forced into declaring themselves what they were not under duress. They were forced to give up their own ethnic identity for the sake of joining the cult of their occupiers. Yes, "occupiers"!

Let´s face reality here. What the Greeks and Bulgarians did was not exactly pleasant for the Macedonian people. Upon their occupation of Macedonian territories, both the Greek and Bulgarian state executed Macedonians on masse, evicted Macedonians from their homes and both states forcibly attempted to denationalize, Hellenize and Bulgarize the Macedonian population. Greece went further and changed the names of people and places and gave away Macedonian lands to foreign colonists. How can Macedonians forget that? Even those Macedonians who chose the "Greek way" were not above been systemically discriminated. Greece has a file on everyone and if a person has Macedonian roots he or she is viewed with suspicion and prohibited from achieving higher education or high positions in the military or in government. So really where is the incentive for Macedonians to turn into Greeks? The 1914 Carnegie report is a testament of what Greece and Bulgaria did upon the occupation and annexation of Macedonia. When war broke out in the Balkans in 1912 and 1913, the Carnegie Endowment dispatched a commission on a fact finding mission. The mission consisted of seven prominent members from the United States, Britain, France, Germany, Austria-Hungary and Russia. Among them was the distinguished journalist Henry N. Brailsford, author of the book "Macedonia its Races and their Future". A report was written and testifies to the atrocities committed by these states against the Macedonian people!

What has changed since then?

Since Macedonia´s occupation and partition, Serbian occupied Macedonia saw a resurgence of the Macedonian language and culture as Serbia slowly softened its stronghold on Macedonia. With the advent of the Yugoslav federation, Macedonia took its rightful place as a republic inside Yugoslavia. The people chose to call their republic "The Peoples´ Republic of Macedonia" and their language "Macedonian" to which Greece had no objection. There are schoolbooks in Greece that attest to the fact that Greece had no objection with Macedonia calling itself Macedonia. Greek children were taught in school that one of the republics in Yugoslavia was called "Macedonia" and the people living in it spoke "Macedonian". When Yugoslavia disintegrated, the Serbian occupied part of Macedonia became the sovereign and independent state the Republic of Macedonia.

Greece and Bulgaria in the meantime continue to illegally occupy Macedonian territories and refuse to acknowledge the existence of ethnic Macedonians.

Sadly for Greece and Bulgaria, Macedonians do exist and are re-opening the Macedonian question. The days of imperialism and treating people like raw material for Nation Building are over. Macedonians don´t want to be Greeks or Bulgarians or any other names Greece and Bulgaria feels like calling them. The Macedonians want to be called Macedonians. They want to be recognized for who they are. The new Macedonian questions should be about recognizing Macedonians as a separate ethnic identity with rights and privileges in accordance with international norms. The new Macedonian question should be about restitution and correcting past wrongs. It should be about long overdue repatriation of long forgotten citizens.

I believe it is time to re-examine the facts, re-open the 1913 Treaty of Bucharest and all associated treaties that have to do with human and minority rights as well as with land claim rights that Greece and Bulgaria have violated. It´s time to stop the pursuit of fantasy like the name dispute and face reality like how and under what conditions Macedonia was occupied, partitioned and annexed. It´s time to review the atrocities the Greek and Bulgarian states have committed against the Macedonian population in 1912 and 1913 and from 1940 to 1949. It´s time for Greece to start making plans to repatriate the Macedonian citizens it evicted for no good reason. It´s time for Greece and Bulgaria to recognize those Macedonians living in their states as Macedonians with full rights and privileges in accordance with international law.

Mr. Karamanlis, its time to stop stalling and muddying the waters by one day pretending there are no Macedonians in your country and another day saying everyone who lives in your country is Macedonian and Greek. Mr. Karamanlis it´s time for you and your Government to start facing real issues like providing human and national rights to the minorities that live in your country today not 2,400 years ago.

Since Macedonians are refusing to "go away" it´s time for you Mr. Karamanlis to deal with them in a civilized and equitable manner.

Mr. Karamanlis, the next time you feel like making statements about how the Macedonians are stealing your "Greek heritage", please take a good look at your own Greek nation and how it was created and decide for yourself who is stealing whose heritage!

**George S.** · 01-03-2013, 07:56 PM

Let´s Not Forget the Exiled Macedonians from Greece
Risto StefovSeptember 22, 2008
After reading the MINA article (http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/3525/46/) about Panayotis Dimitras, member of the Greek Helsinki Monitor, I couldn´t help but remember what my father had told me about other United Nations visits to the Greek concentration camps in the Greek islands in the past where Macedonians and others were tortured daily.

It was naïve of me to ask, "Why didn´t anyone report the abuses while the people from the UN visited you?" "Because no one wanted to die a horrible death," was the answer. The UN and other investigative bodies came and went but the prisoners remained and were constantly reminded of what would happen not only to them personally but to their families and friends if they spoke up. They were also reminded that "the strangers will come and go but you will definitely stay". "How were we to know that these people were truly from the UN and not another ´Greek show´, a ploy to pull us into getting into trouble and giving the Greeks another excuse to torture and murder us?" was another answer I received.

If I were a Macedonian living in Greece today what would I think if a high profiled Greek such as Panayotis Dimitras is openly threatened in the face of the entire world with "high treason" and life imprisonment just for saying Macedonians exist in Greece? I would have to ask myself "if they can do that to Panayotis a member of the Greek Helsinki Monitor who is well known worldwide, imagine what they can do to me, an unknown person, if I speak up?" "Would I dare say I am Macedonian and risk my life and the lives of my family?" The answer would most likely be NO!

Macedonians have many examples to refer to where they were put in similar circumstances and many times were let down. The Greeks are back to their old tricks because these tricks are tried and proven tactics that have worked well for them in the past! They know this will bring them the desired results without any consequences.

But let me tell you something, not all Macedonians from Greece live inside Greece where the Greek government has them under its thumb. There are millions of Macedonians, yes millions of exiled Macedonians whose citizenship and properties were expropriated by the Greek government and who were driven out of Greece. To this day I have yet to find a single Macedonian who has left Greece willingly and hasn´t been driven out as a war refugee or as an economic refugee.

The Macedonians still living in Greece have no rights but they at least still have their lands, homes, citizenship and live where they were born. Unfortunately that is not the case with the Macedonians and other minorities which Greece has exiled over the years.

From what happened to Mr. Dimitras it should be obvious to everyone that the Macedonians living inside Greece are in peril from the Greek government and from the racist and fascist organizations the Greek state supports. Those Macedonians who volunteered information to the UN have put themselves and their families at great risk.

Greece has used similar threats before and knows its methods are tried and proven. It knows terror tactics will work because its minorities live and have always lived in fear and will not dare reveal themselves or freely speak to strangers. Greece will exercise its threats and send people to jail; it has done this before and has suffered no consequences so it will do it again. Macedonians living inside Greece unfortunately have suffered many consequences in the past and would be less willing to come forth with information.

Another place to obtain reliable information about the Macedonians in Greece is to interview Macedonians from Greece who live outside of Greece where they can´t be threatened with violence and long jail sentences.

To exile people from their homes and to have their homes, properties and citizenship confiscated is not only immoral but also illegal and today the law is on the Macedonian side.

**George S.** · 01-03-2013, 07:57 PM

The Forced Homogenization of Populations in Greek Macedonia
Risto StefovSeptember 21, 2008
Ordinarily I could care less what people call themselves, it's a personal issue how one wishes to present and even when I know people are lying about their ethnic heritage I let it slide. But, when today's self-proclaimed "Greeks" take it upon themselves to dictate to others how they may call themselves then it's time to speak up.

The Greek government routinely denies the existence of ethnic Macedonians, as it denies the existence of all ethnic and national minorities within its jurisdiction. Greece, you see, is a pure country with no minorities, a miracle in the modern World and unique in Europe - or so we are told.

In truth today's Modern Greek identity, the Greek identity of such luminaries as Kostas Karamanlis and Dora Bakoyannis, is the result of enforced homogenization. It is a political identity and historically artificial.

Prior to 1913 the majority of people living in geographic Macedonia shared common customs, traditions, songs, dances, language, history and religion. These people had lived in Macedonia for some 1500 years and their relationship is probably much older than that. Any decent person, any civilised human being would have no problem referring to such people as 'ethnic Macedonians'.

Now, let's consider the so-called "ethnic Greek" identity of today's Modern Greeks.

According to Webster's dictionary, belonging to an ethnic group means belonging to a division of mankind as distinguished by customs, characteristics, language and sharing a common history, etc.

I recently read an interesting article at in an official Turkish website:

http://www.mfa.gov.tr/denial-of-ethnic-identity.en.mfa

What do Turks have to say about today's Greeks? After all both Macedonia and Greece were ruled by Turkey for centuries; Greece for four centuries and Macedonia for five.

The site states:

" The [Modern] Greek Nation is based on the principle of belonging to the Greek race and the Greek Orthodox Church. On this subject, it is enough to glance at the speeches of Greek statesmen about the homogeneity of the Greek nation with the exception of the Muslim minority.

If today's Greek Nation is really homogeneous, one cannot help but wonder about the destiny of the Albanians, the Muslim Albanians, Vlach, Macedonians, Bulgarians, Jews as well as Turks. In this respect it becomes necessary to answer the question of how homogeneity has been achieved in Greek Macedonia while ethnic variety still survives in the Republic of Macedonia ."

What are the Turks talking about? Who are these Albanians, Vlach, Macedonians, Turks, etc. existing in Greece?

As mentioned above, Athens denies the existence of any national or ethnic minorities on its territory. Greece claims to be an ethnically homogeneous nation whose roots extend back to the ancient Greeks of thousands of years ago.

Such a claim is utter nonsense, of course, but this is the official mythology of the Modern Greek state. This is what today's Greeks are taught in school and this is the kind of historical fiction promoted by Greek society.

The Ottoman Turks were masters of Greece for four centuries, long before a Greek state was created and prior to the Romanoi altering their identity and referring to themselves "Greeks". There was indeed a great variety of ethnic populations in what is today Greece, but apparently they have all vanished.

The Turkish site puts it succinctly:

"In this respect, it becomes necessary to answer the question of how homogeneity has been achieved in Greek Macedonia while ethnic variety still survives in the Republic of Macedonia ?"

How indeed!

When the Greek kingdom was created in 1829, the following ethnic groups dominated the territory: Arvanites (Christian Albanians), Vlahi (Vlachs), Tourki (Turks), Voulgari (Bulgarians and Macedonians), Slavi (Macedonians), Slavo-Makedones (Macedonians), Endopii (indigenous Macedonians), Gifti (Roma), Evreii (Jews) and others. Some citations carelessly refer to those who spoke Greek as "Greeks" but such people more often than not belonged to one of the distinct non-Greek ethnic groups.

It is impossible to gauge to what extent ancient Greeks (including the huge slave populations) survived in the lower Balkans and preserved a 'Greek' identity for 2500 years. It is extremely unlikely that more than a miniscule fraction of today's "Greek" population has any connection whatsoever to the ancient Greeks. The vast bulk of today's "Greeks" have been recently made "Greek" as part of the political homogenization process.

European powers created the Greek kingdom in an effort to block Russian access to warm waters. At that time, in 1829, the Arvanites still spoke the Albanian language and had their own unique customs and traditions. This was the majority population in the region of Attica (Athens) so much so that there was discussion as to whether Greek or Albanian should become the official language of the new kingdom. The Vlach still spoke their mother Vlach language similar to Latin and they had their own unique customs and traditions. Turks spoke the Turkish language and had their own customs and traditions, etc.

Notwithstanding the many names Modern Greeks use to refer to Macedonians, e.g., Slavs, Slavofoni, diglossos, Voulgaros, Slavo-Makedones, Dopii and more recently the ignorant Skopianoi, Macedonians spoke the Macedonian language, which existed and still exists throughout all of geographic Macedonia. Macedonians too have their own unique customs and traditions, which are different from the other groups.

If the truth be told today's Greece is inhabited by diverse Ottoman Christian populations of various ethnic backgrounds. These people did not have a "Greek" ethnic identity, that identity was imposed on them later. It was only after the creation of the Greek kingdom that authorities fabricated a new "Greek" identity, the purpose being to homogenize the population.

Authorities systematically destroyed people's original ethnic identity. They made the declaration of any non-Greek identity socially repulsive and illegal. People became too ashamed to refer to themselves as Arvanites and Vlach. Even today you see Arvanites like former Greek foreign minister, Pangalos, denying his Albanian heritage and proclaiming himself a pure Hellene. That's quite pathetic but Modern Greeks are taught that any non-Greek identity is vulgar and inferior to the newly fabricated Greek identity. Modern Greeks have buried their true ethnic heritage, and where they still remember it, they have become self-loathing. This is what it means to be a modern-day "Hellene".

Greek authorities also taught the citizenry that it was "patriotic" to monitor one's neighbours and hand over to authorities the names of people who refused to identify as Greek and who continued to speak their non-Greek mother tongues. This process of spying on your neighbours and betraying them to authorities went on for generations and still goes on today, even in the Diaspora.

Politicians in Athens fabricated a state mythology, a fake history if you will, for these newly minted Greeks to share, the purpose being to bind the different ethnic groups together and unify the state.

Greece adopted Koine, which today is paraded as the Modern Greek language. But, just as the Modern Greek flag was stolen from the British East India Company, Koine, which many Greeks boast connects them to the ancients, was stolen from the Byzantine Church. Greece was fabricating its new history, identity and language in a hodgepodge manner via theft. In fact most of today's "Greek culture" is stolen from the various assimilated populations and misrepresented as "Greek".

People who learnt Koine are no more Greek nor related to the ancient Greeks than people who learnt hieroglyphs are Egyptian and related to the ancient Egyptians. Adopting a new language doesn't give one rights to the heritage of the ancient populations who spoke it.

It made sense to impose the church Koine as religion was the only thing the various ethnic groups of Greece had in common. But, religion is not ethnicity.

Greece changed the place names and people's personal names, renaming everyone and everything to make them appear Greek. This tells us that neither the places nor the people were Greek and they had to be made Greek by force. This is Greece's famous policy of ethnic and cultural genocide.

As a Macedonian from Aegean Macedonia my new (artificial) "Greek" history begins in 1926 after the Greek government changed my grandfather's name and the name of my village from Macedonian to Greek. There was no Stefou or Trigono before 1926 and everyone spoke Macedonian, not Greek.

If I am to believe that after 1926 I am Greek then I must ask: What was I before 1926? What was I before they changed our village name and our family name from Macedonian to Greek? What was the original ethnic heritage of my family?

And just what is it that makes today's citizens of Greece "ethnically Greek"? Just what is it that makes Greekocised Macedonians, Vlach, Arvanites, Roma, Turks, etc., share the same "ethnicity" in Greece?

According to Webster's dictionary a Greek is a native or modern inhabitant of Greece. So, anyone who lives in Greece is Greek by virtue of geography. One must assume that if such people move to a different location they would take on a new identity. That hardly sounds like an ethnic group.

The name Greek is derived from the word Graioi, originally the Latin name of a Boeotian tribe that settled in Southern Italy in the 8th century BC, but clearly the Boeotians did not give rise to today's Modern "Greeks". Use of the term "Greek" cannot, in itself, define an ethnicity. There must be more to it.

So, what makes today's Greeks "ethnic Greeks"?

It can't be culture, tradition or customs as the original cultures, traditions and customs of today's Greek population (Albanians, Vlachs, Macedonians, Turks, Roma, etc.) were distinct and non-Greek.

It can't be language since Koine was formally imposed on diverse groups only after the Greek kingdom was formed in 1829. Koine was not the mother tongue of people living in what became Greece, this was a church language just as Latin was the church language to the West.

So, it isn't language, culture, tradition or custom. It's not history either, as more than half of today's Greek population is not indigenous to the region and was only transplanted into the area from Asia Minor and the Black Sea over the last century. These are unrelated, historically disjoint populations.

You can see why the Greek government was under pressure to manufacture a language and identity for all these different groups. The only thing they shared, the only thing they had in common, was their religion.

Today's Modern Greek state is based on religion, not ethnicity or history. Historically, it is unrelated to ancient Greece. When the Bavarian royal house established the new Greek kingdom it was meant as a haven for the persecuted Christians of the Ottoman regions. The first Greek constitution beckoned to all Christians to immigrate and settle there - it did not beckon to "Greeks" to come and settle there.

Other than a common religion there is little if any of the characteristics of an "ethnic group" prior to the formation of the Greek kingdom in 1829.

That's why forced homogenization was necessary in the first place. That's why everything and everyone had to be renamed. That's why a new Greek language had to be imposed and people's mother tongues and ethnic identities had be suppressed and destroyed. That's why ethnic variety still exists in the Republic of Macedonia but has vanished from the new Greek state.

How is it, then, that people who only recently and just barely qualify to call themselves "ethnic Greeks" are allowed to usurp the ancient Greek heritage and the ancient Macedonian heritage? From what authority does this group attempt to tell ethnic Macedonians who they are and how they may call themselves?

Obviously today's Greeks are ethnic frauds, their identity is nothing more than the product of a government program. We indigenous Macedonians of Greece know this first hand as we have been resisting the ruthless ethnocide of Greece for a century now.

What is the Macedonian government doing negotiating our Macedonian identity and Macedonian ethnic heritage with such racists and frauds?

**George S.** · 01-03-2013, 07:59 PM

What is a Macedonian?
Risto StefovSeptember 23, 2008
What will you say to a stranger when they ask, "What is a Macedonian?"

We are often confronted with this question but have we ever given it a thought? There are people in this world who genuinely don´t know who the Macedonians are especially since their neighbours have been busy trying to erase them, to make them extinct like the Dodo bird. But in spite of all odds Macedonians are still here and thriving.

It has not been easy or fun being Macedonian, far from it has been darn hard. Macedonians don´t know why fate has dealt them such a lousy card but they know they can´t argue with fate. Some say they are the "cursed" children of Alexander the Great, cursed for the violence and destruction he befell on the world. Others say they are too passive and meek and let others bully them and push them around. But deep down in their hearts they know that their kindness, no matter how misconstrued, will not go unrewarded. Isn´t it the bible that says "the meek shall inherit the earth"? The bible also says "violence begets violence" heed for those who wish the Macedonians ill.

Today´s Macedonia reminds me of Ancient Macedonia before she became mighty and glorious. Macedonians had neighbours who raided their homes every fall after the harvest, took their crops and burned their villages down to the ground without giving a second thought as to the hardships and pain they inflicted by leaving them to endure the winter cold and hungry. But Macedonians were agile, industrious and determined to survive to rebuild their livelihood only to have it destroyed the next fall. Such was life in the distant past until they became passive and asked their enemies to "take what they wanted" but leave them be and not burn their villages.

Macedonians never raised a hand in anger then and they have not raised one since. It has been the Macedonian way.

But there was only so much even a Macedonian could take!

It´s a different world today but Macedonians still have their enemies who wish us ill. They may not raid their crops and burn their villages but their deeds are just as destructive. Today their enemies have taken their lands, denied their language, changed their names and denied their existence. They stole their history robbed them of their heritage and made them feel like strangers in their own homes. Such is life today as Macedonians remain passive and offer their selves to their enemies.

Again, there is only so much a Macedonian can take!

As it was then in the distant past it shall be again in the future, a Macedonian will be born who will declare "this is no way for my people to live" and will rise and make Macedonia glorious and her people proud again. As it was then when there was no greater honour than being a Soldier of Macedon it shall be again when there will be no greater pride than being Macedonian.

So what do you say to a stranger when they ask, "What is a Macedonian?"

You say to them a Macedonian is a human being who has suffered and is still suffering for what she or he is.

To be Macedonian is;

1. To have your homeland invaded, occupied and portioned into four pieces.

2. To have your enemies fight over your possessions and your identity.

3. To have your enemies speak on your behalf while they divide your country.

4. To have seen your brothers, sisters and cousins evicted from their homes for just being Macedonian.

5. To have a choice of swearing loyalty to your occupier, a foreign power, or to die.

6. To be forced to denounce your mother tongue in public and to swear to never speak it again.

7. To have to go to prison and endure hardships just because you want to be Macedonian.

8. To have to witness your demography change overnight, your village populated with strangers whose language, mannerisms and traditions you do not understand.

9. To have to endure beatings, fines and large doses of castor oil for being what you are, Macedonian.

10. To have witnessed your culture being wiped out in front of your eyes, be it your toponyms, language, bibles in the church, church icons or gravestones of your relatives bearing your native writings.

11. To have to witness your enemy secretly remove and hide ancient treasures belonging to your past.

12. To have no say in what happens in your community.

13. To fear strangers entering your village, not knowing what harm they might bring.

14. To have to go to church and listen to a liturgy spoken in a foreign tongue, words spoken that you do not understand.

15. To have to go to your local school to learn a foreign language where your mother tongue is prohibited.

16. To have to endure becoming an unrecognized minority on your native soil.

17. To have to become mute to the beloved tongue your mother taught you, the only language you understood.

18. To have to imagine the music you used to dance to and dance to it in silence.

19. To have been robbed of your dignity, land and identity.

20. To have witnessed your enemy burn your home and kill and torture your relatives.

21. To have endured and lived through other peoples wars who fought on your native soil.

22. To have survived attempts at integration, assimilation and denationalization.

23. To have endured pain, humiliation, denigration and persecution.

24. To have felt isolation, forced expulsion and the pain of having to leave your beloved home, Macedonia, against your will.

25. To have to never speak your mother tongue in public on your own native soil.

26. To have been ridiculed for speaking a foreign language with an accent which you were forced to learn.

27. To have been told numerous times and constantly reminded that you don´t exist.

28. To have to endure being called derogatory names like Slav, Skopjan, Fyromian, Gypsy, Bulgarian, Old Bulgarian and many more, but never Macedonian!

29. To have to endure listening to your enemies telling you who you are and who you are not.

30. To have absolutely no rights, not even the basic of human rights

31. To have more freedom and rights in foreign lands than in your native Greek occupied Macedonia.

32. To have your enemies change you name and tell you who you are and force it upon you if you don´t agree.

33. To have endured the exodus of your friends and to never be able to see them again.

34. To witness tens of thousands of children leave their homes and never be able to return.

35. To listen to your enemies lie about who you are in front of you and you being unable to defend yourself.

36. To have your enemies steal your history, traditions and heritage and tell you it´s theirs and not yours.

37. To have your enemies call you a liar for telling the truth.

38. To have the ability to keep silent while your enemies insult and denigrate you in your presence.

39. To have your troubles follow you no matter where you go, be it America, Canada, or Australia.

40. To have to fight for things that other people take for granted.

Such is the fate of being Macedonian!

So why would anyone want to be Macedonian?

As it was said before and it will be said again and again, "Macedonians want to be Macedonian because that is what they are, Macedonian". There are no choices to being Macedonian just as there are no choices to be human. Macedonians accept who they are just as they accept who others are. There is a deep, almost spiritual feeling to being Macedonian. To be Macedonian is to have willingly accepted the burden of being Macedonian.

Why do Macedonians put up with such suffering?

This is like asking a Christian "why did Christians put up with such suffering"? Why did they put up with abuse and torture for so many centuries?

Macedonians put up with abuse and suffering because, above all, they are true to themselves. Macedonians can be no other just as a goat cannot be a sheep no matter how great its desire. Suffering after all makes Macedonians stronger and more appreciative of who they are. Macedonians are an enduring people that perceive their troubles like a passing storm. Experience has taught them that patience is a virtue. Their troubles like a violent storm come and go and so their current problems too will pass. They have learned to hope and trust that the future will bring a better day.

So the next time you meet Macedonians know who they are. Know that they exist in spite of their enemies´ determination to render them extinct. Macedonians come from a rich culture that has a long standing Macedonian tradition, rich history like no other, unshakable faith and shining pride in being Macedonian. Suffering has made them strong and more determined to be proud Macedonians.

Macedonians know by instinct that they will weather this storm as well as they have weathered many others before it and have survived.

**George S.** · 01-03-2013, 08:02 PM

Greek-Macedonian Name Dispute – Simplified
Risto StefovSeptember 26, 2008
Ever since the Republic of Macedonia declared its independence from Yugoslavia in 1991 under the name "Republic of Macedonia" Greece has been waging a propaganda campaign against it promoting the idea that Macedonia is exclusively Greek and that no one except Greece had the right to claim its ancient heritage, including its symbols, flags and name. This is echoed, loud and clear both inside and outside of Greece. Greece´s basis for the so called dispute with the Republic of Macedonia is, according to Greece, "the Republic of Macedonia harbors territorial ambitions toward Greece´s northern province also called Macedonia".

Even though the Republic of Macedonia made amendments to its constitution to disclaim any "territorial ambitions", removed all disputed symbols and changed its flag, the Greek State still stubbornly persists on its mission to prevent Macedonia from entering international institutions and from gaining world recognition.

The purpose of this essay is to provide the reader with relevant information that;

1. Proves that Greece has no basis for its arguments with Macedonia.

2. Proves that Greece´s arguments are a ruse to sidestep more important issues.

3. Highlight some very important issues that Macedonians living in Greece are faced with, which Greece has so far ignored.

ARGUMENTS

A. Greece claims that Macedonia is exclusively Greek because the ancient Macedonian heritage belongs to Greece but it provides no valid arguments to qualify its claims.

The creation of the modern Balkan States during the 19th century was a result of (a), the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and (b) the introduction of nationalism in the region.

Throughout the later part of the 500 year old Ottoman occupation of the Balkans and up to the 19th century, national awareness did not exist among the Balkan people. The concept of "nationality" was unknown to the Ottoman citizen who at the time identified only by his or her religion be it Muslim, Christian, Jew, etc.

It is also a well known fact that the Balkan region was without borders for more than twenty centuries and was conquered, invaded and settled by a variety of people.

When Greece became a state for the first time in 1829 it consisted only of the region today known as the Peloponnesus which was then populated by a majority of Albanian, Turk, Vlach and Macedonian speakers (there were no other ethnic indicators to distinguish the various language speakers from one another since ethnicity at the time was unknown to those people). Historically an organized and united Greek state never existed. The ancient world was never unified and existed not as one but as many states and worlds with varying governments, languages and cultures.

Over the years the modern Greek people, by war and imperial ambitions, incorporated more lands into their state including Epirus, Thessaly, Crete and Macedonia, which historically were never unified as a single state and never belonged to Greece. Further, the people on those lands were also not Greeks and linguistically belonged to the Albanian, Vlach, Turk and Macedonian speaking families.

So it would not be wrong to state that the entire southern Balkan Peninsula on which modern Greece is located today was populated by a vast majority of non-Greek people who spoke Macedonian, Albanian, Turk, Vlach and other non-Greek languages and who at the time had no national awareness and had only their religions in common.

It is also accurate to state that according to census reports compiled by the Republic of Macedonia after 1991, there are predominantly Macedonian, Albanian, Turk and Vlach speakers living in the Republic of Macedonia today, the same linguistic groups that existed in Macedonia before the fall of the Ottoman Empire.

In other words, when the Greek State was formed in 1829 it consisted of exactly the same ethnic identities that the Republic of Macedonia had in 1991.

The reason there is a difference between the 19th century ethnic identities in Greece and those of today is that Greece has "Hellenized" them (mostly by force) and turned them into Greeks. In 1928 Greece declared that the population in Greece is homogeneous consisting of 98% pure Greeks and 2% Muslim Greeks.

Although Greece today claims that its people are the descendents of the ancient Greeks the truth is Greece has no basis for this claim. Its people are modern Balkanites similar to those who live in its neighbouring countries and nothing more.

In other words, a modern Greek making claims that he or she is a descendent of the ancient Greeks who lived on the same lands 2,500 years ago is equivalent to a modern Canadian making claims that he or she is a descendant of the ancient Canadians who lived on the same lands before the Europeans discovered them.

B. Greece claims that the name Macedonia belongs exclusively to Greece because Greece has a province with the same name. Greece however provides no valid arguments as to how it acquired that Macedonian province and why only "it" can be called Macedonia when that very same province belongs to a greater geographical and historical region called Macedonia.

Nationalism was imported into the Balkans in the early 19th century and took hold in Greece, Serbia and later Bulgaria. Macedonia being the most oppressed region in the Balkans stood at the center of the then Ottoman State and was less accessible to the outside world so naturally nationalism took longer to infiltrate Macedonia. This however did not stop the Macedonian people from acquiring a Macedonian national consciousness, or from making a bid to free themselves from the Ottomans or from attempting to create a Macedonian state that would have encompassed all of geographic Macedonia including the Republic of Macedonia and all the geographical Macedonian regions held by Greece, Bulgaria and Albania today.

The Macedonians are the only people in the southern Balkans who organized a massive national liberation movement and in 1903 rose up against the Ottoman Empire to free themselves without outside help.

Unfortunately the Macedonian uprising did not produce the desired results and opened up Macedonia to foreign intrigue and territorial ambitions especially on the part of its neighbours who in 1912 invaded, occupied and in 1913 divided Macedonia among themselves.

In other words, 51% of the Macedonian geographical territory which Greece today exclusively calls "Macedonia" or "Greek Macedonia" or the "Greek Province of Macedonia" did not belong to Greece prior to 1912 and was never Greek.

Prior to 1912 Macedonia was part of the Ottoman Empire and belonged to the people who lived in Macedonia, the true owners of Macedonian lands. Greece gained this territory through war and by evicting all those who opposed it including the legitimate owners of those lands. Greece invaded Macedonia in 1912 under the pretence of liberating the Macedonian people, occupied and partitioned it with its Serbian and Bulgarian partners against the will of the Macedonian people.

In fact Greece gained its part of Macedonia through deception and a force of arms without the consent of the Macedonian people.

Unable to free themselves from the Ottoman yoke the Macedonian people welcomed the Greek, Serbian and Bulgarian armies in 1912 as their liberators. But instead of being liberated they quickly found themselves occupied and their state partitioned.

As for the name "Macedonia" I would like to remind the reader that before 1912 there was one Macedonia, the entire region of geographical and historic Macedonia, the very same region the Macedonian people rose in 1903 to liberate and create a Macedonian State.

Therefore, the Republic of Macedonia has both geographical and historical rights to call itself "Macedonia" since that state belongs to geographical Macedonia and to the people who rose up in 1903 and during the Second World War to liberate it.

As for Greece claiming rights to the name "Macedonia", here are some facts:

In 1913 after Macedonia was partitioned, Greece named its part of Macedonia "New Territories". Later it renamed it "Northern Greece". Then in the late 1980´s when it was inevitable that a new Macedonian state was about to declare its independence from Yugoslavia, Greece renamed it "Macedonia".

Therefore Greece has neither historical nor geographical rights to the name "Macedonia". Greece only uses this argument to sidestep other more important Macedonian issues and as a ruse to deflect attention from them.

C. Greece claims that there are no Macedonians living in Greece or in geographic Macedonia, only Greeks, Serbians and Bulgarians and that the Macedonian nation was created by Tito in 1945.

The ethnic mix of people in Macedonia prior to the 1912 Greek, Serbian and Bulgarian invasion consisted of a large ethnic Macedonian majority indigenous to the region, Turks, Arnauts (Albanians), Vlachs, Roma and other smaller minorities. In other words, the same mix of ethnic identities that exist today in the Republic of Macedonia (with the exception of the Turks who left Macedonia soon after the Greek, Serbian and Bulgarian invasion) was present in the entire region of geographic Macedonia prior to 1912. There were no ethnic Greeks or ethnic Bulgarians in Macedonia at that time, only ethnic Macedonians who served "Greek" and "Bulgarian" interests.

Most census statistics released before 1912 were compiled by Greek, Serbian and Bulgarian statisticians and were based on "religious affiliation". As mentioned earlier, at the time there was no clear identifier to determine ethnically who was who except for language and religion. However, the vast majority of people living in Macedonia were Macedonian speakers. So the only option census takers had was to use "religion" as an identifier of ´nationality". Since most Macedonians were Christians the only difference between them was "whose" Church they were affiliated with. However the only churches allowed to operate in Ottoman Macedonia at the time were the Greek, Serbian and Bulgarian Churches. So the census statisticians used "religious affiliation" as the identifier to which "nationality" the people living in Macedonia belonged. In other words a person was considered to be a "Greek national" if he or she attended liturgy in the Greek Church, a "Serbian national" if he or she attended liturgy in the Serbian Church and a "Bulgarian national" if he or she attended liturgy in the Bulgarian Church. So naturally there being no Macedonian Church, census statistics showed no Macedonians living in Macedonia, only Greeks, Serbians and Bulgarians.

Therefore it is not that Macedonians did not exist, as Greece likes us to believe, but it was the method that census takers and statisticians employed to represent the ethnic composition of the region that was incorrect. In fact the method was simply wrong and only served the territorial ambitions of the Greek, Serbian and Bulgarian states.

In 1991 the part of Macedonia that was originally occupied by Serbia, by referendum, declared its independence from the Yugoslav federation and became a free and sovereign state called the Republic of Macedonia. Upon its successful and peaceful separation from Yugoslavia, the Republic of Macedonia conducted its own census study and concluded that over 60% of its population was ethnic Macedonian.

As for Greece, it has yet to conduct a proper census and still relies on outdated methods such as "religious affiliation" to determine its ethnic composition. This way it can hide its minorities and pretend that 98% of its people are pure Greeks and 2% are Muslim Greeks.

D. Macedonians living in Greece are faced with a number of issues since the forceful invasion, occupation and illegal partition of Macedonia.

The Greek, Serbian and Bulgarian invasion of Macedonia brought catastrophic results to the Macedonian people. After driving the Ottomans out with the Macedonian people´s help, the three invaders Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria began to fight among themselves inside Macedonia for a larger portion of the Macedonian territory. In the process they burned down hundreds of Macedonian villages and murdered, tortured and exiled thousands of civilians including women and children as documented by the 1913 Carnegie Endowment Inquiry.

Finally when they stopped fighting they partitioned Macedonia between themselves under the 1913 Treaty of Bucharest where Greece received 51% of Macedonia´s territory, Serbia received 39% and Bulgaria received 10%.

In 1991 the part of Macedonia that was originally occupied by Serbia, by referendum, declared its independence from the Yugoslav federation and became a free and sovereign state called the Republic of Macedonia. The parts occupied by Greece, Bulgaria and Albania remain occupied to this day.

IMPORTANT ISSUES

There are many issues the Macedonian people deem "important", which Greece "needs to deal with" but so far has refused to address. Some are listed as follows;

1. Greece refuses to recognize that it illegally occupied Macedonian territories in 1912 without the Macedonian people´s consent. Macedonians were lead to believe that Greece was entering the conflict in 1912 to liberate the Macedonian people from the Ottoman yoke but through deception and intrigue Greece along with its partners, Serbia and Bulgaria, forcibly occupied and subjugated Macedonia.

2. Greece refuses to recognize that Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria under the 1913 Treaty of Bucharest partitioned Macedonia into three pieces without the Macedonian people´s consent. Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria in 1913 occupied and partitioned Macedonian lands creating artificial borders that have divided families to this day.

What Greece calls liberation, the Macedonian people call occupation. Having one exiled from his or her ancestral home, having his or her lands confiscated, having his or her name changed, being forced to speak a foreign language, being publicly humiliated by being forced to denounce one´s own identity and being forced to publicly pledge allegiance to a tyrannical occupier is no "liberation". It is subjugation.

3. Greece refuses to accept the fact that its army committed atrocities and genocide against the Macedonian people during the two Balkan Wars of 1912, 1913 as documented by the 1913 Carnegie Endowment Inquiry.

4. Greece refuses to repatriate the thousands of Macedonians who it evicted from their homes and forcibly exiled after 1913 simply because they were affiliated with the Bulgarian and Serbian Churches. Greece exiled tens of thousands of Macedonians and had their homes and properties confiscated simply because they, during the last years of the Ottoman occupation, attended liturgy in the Bulgarian and Serbian churches; not in the Greek Church.

5. Greece refuses to allow the return of the tens of thousands of Macedonians who it expelled to Turkey during the 1920´s and had their homes and properties confiscated simply because they were of the Muslim faith.

6. Greece refuses to provide compensation to those Macedonians who´s lands and homes it confiscated in the 1920´s to accommodate the imported Christian colonists from Asia Minor and other places. During the 1920´s Greece imported 1.1 million colonists from Turkey and settled most of them in Macedonia.

7. Greece refuses to reverse the imposed name changes the Greek State forced on the Macedonian people. During the 1920´s Greece introduced assimilation policies in Macedonia to "Hellenize" every person by changing their first and last names so that they would sound Greek. Greece did this without the consent of those whose names were changed.

8. Greece refuses to reverse the imposed toponym changes the Greek State forced on the Macedonian people during and subsequent to the 1920´s to "Hellenize" the region. Greece changed all Macedonian toponyms including cities, towns, villages, lakes, rivers, mountains, roads, etc. from Macedonian to Greek without the Macedonian people´s consent.

9. Greece refuses to reverse the illegal abolition of the Macedonian language. During the 1930´s the Greek state introduced anti-Macedonian laws banning the Macedonian language and ordering the destruction of every Macedonian inscription found on buildings, monuments, gravestones and religious icons that contained Macedonian writing. People, even those who spoke no other language, were heavily fined and forced to drink castor oil when caught speaking Macedonian. The Macedonian language is illegal in Greece to this day.

10. Greece refuses to abolish anti-Macedonian laws and discriminatory practices against the Macedonian people. Greece over the years has punished Macedonians for having Macedonian sentiments by public humiliation, beatings, imprisonment and murder.

11. Greece refuses to repatriate and return the properties and citizenships to those Macedonians expelled from Greece without a trial for being suspected of aiding the losing side in the Greek Civil War. Greece murdered and expelled tens of thousands of Macedonians and confiscated their properties and citizenship simply because they were suspected of aiding the losing side in the Greek Civil War.

12. Greece refuses to repatriate the 28,000 refugee children ages 2 to 14 it expelled in 1948 whose citizenship and ancestral properties it confiscated.

13. Greece refuses to scrap the 1982 anti-Macedonian discriminatory law. Greece passed law 106841 in 1982 allowing Greeks by birth to return to Greece but excluded Macedonians, even though these Macedonians were born in Greece and in fact were all Greek citizens.

14. Greece refuses to end systemic discrimination against the Macedonian people which is ingrained in the Greek government, church, media, schools and other institutions.

15. Greece refuses to recognize the Macedonian minority living inside Greece today even though it is required to do so in accordance with international agreements to which Greece is signatory.

In view of the above, which the Greek State refuses to deal with, past Greek governments have concocted less damaging issues such as the name dispute to:

a. Lead the Macedonian people away from important issues and bog them down with nonsensical ones.

b. Give the world the impression that the Greek-Macedonian dispute is really about unimportant "nonsensical issues" such as ancient history. By doing this Greece hopes to cover-up its misdeeds against the Macedonian people.

CONCLUSION

Greece has been very successful in its endeavour and has succeeded in painting the "wrong picture" about its "dispute" with Macedonia.

The Macedonian people do indeed have a dispute with Greece but it is not about historic names, symbols and flags, it is about equality, human rights and human dignity.

Given Greece´s track record on its treatment of the Macedonian people, today´s Macedonians are left with the following options;

I. Do nothing and accept Greece´s status quo. In other words, end the pursuit of human rights for the Macedonian people, which may be acceptable to Greece but totally unacceptable to the Macedonians.

II. Lobby international bodies to pressure Greece into accepting its responsibilities in coming to terms with the Macedonian issue. Pressure Greece to making amends to the Macedonian people. Force Greece to recognize the Macedonian minority living on its soil in accordance with international human right norms to which Greece is signatory and is obliged to uphold.

III. Start lobbying for the separation of the part of Macedonia under Greek control and call for its reunification with the Republic of Macedonia or for the creation of a new Macedonian state similar to Kosovo.

Greece had almost a century to correct the wrongs it committed against the Macedonian people. How much longer must the Macedonian people wait to receive justice from Greece before taking matters into their own hands?

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**George S.** · 01-03-2013, 08:03 PM

Will there be Justice for the Macedonians in Greece?
Risto StefovSeptember 28, 2008
When we speak of Macedonia most of us think of the Republic of Macedonia but what most people don´t know is that there is more to Macedonia than just the Republic of Macedonia. It´s a matter of fact that 51% of Macedonia´s geographical territory was annexed by Greece and another 10% was annexed by Bulgaria by the August 10th, 1913 Treaty of Bucharest. So by virtue of physical size most of Macedonia today is under Greece. Also by virtue of its physical territory we can assume that more Macedonians live in Greece than in the Republic of Macedonia. The Republic of Macedonia, by the way, occupies 39% of geographical Macedonia.

So when we speak of the Macedonian people it must be understood that we speak of the ethnic Macedonian people, not just of those living in the Republic of Macedonia, but of all ethnic Macedonians living in all of geographical Macedonia.

Another thing most people don´t know is that most Macedonians living in the Diaspora today are from the Greek part of Macedonia.

It is estimated that there are 200,000 Macedonians living in Canada or perhaps more since Macedonians have been coming to this country since the late 1800´s. More than 150,000 of these Macedonians have come from Greece. They have been coming to Canada to work and return home to invest their savings but since the failed Macedonian uprising against the Ottoman Empire in 1903 more and more have been coming to Canada to stay.

There are many Macedonians also living in the USA and Australia, perhaps in the hundreds of thousands, who also left Macedonia under similar circumstances as economic or political refugees.

Despite what Macedonia´s neighbours the Greeks, Bulgarians and Albanians claim, the Macedonian people from the entire region of geographical Macedonia, including the regions today occupied by Greece, Bulgaria and Albania, came together as one in 1903 and fought against the Ottoman Empire for their liberty and to create a Macedonian State. Unfortunately due to the superiority of the Ottoman military and due to lack of assistance from the outside world, Macedonians failed in that task. This however did not mean that Macedonians gave up their struggle for freedom and independence.

After their failed uprising many Macedonians placed their hopes for liberation on their neighbours but that too was a great mistake. The Ottomans were indeed driven out of Macedonia during the first Balkan War of 1912 by the combined actions of the Greek, Serbian, Montenegrin and Bulgarian armies but instead of liberating the Macedonian people as promised, these states (Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria) occupied Macedonia and partitioned it amongst themselves. Since then up to 1991 Macedonia remained occupied and under the control of foreign hands, more ruthless than those of the Ottoman Empire.

In 1991 the part of Macedonia that was originally occupied by Serbia, by referendum, declared its independence from the Yugoslav federation and became a free and sovereign state called the Republic of Macedonia. The parts occupied by Greece, Bulgaria and Albania remain under foreign control to this day.

Besides occupying and annexing Macedonian territories without the consent of the Macedonian people, Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria over the years also committed many atrocities against the Macedonian people. The Greeks for example burned many villages and murdered and exiled their inhabitants as documented by the 1913 Carnegie Endowment Inquiry. Later Greece exiled tens of thousands of Macedonians because they refused to pledge allegiance to the Greek State. Even later they exiled still more Macedonians because they happened to be of the Muslim faith and replaced them with twice the number of Christian Turkish colonists form Asia Minor. At about the same time Greece implemented a number of policies to change the Macedonian people´s names and make them Greek sounding. Greece, in an attempt to show the world that Macedonia was Greek, changed all the Macedonian peoples´ and place names including village, town and city names as well as lake, river, road, valley and mountain names and made them Greek sounding. A little later Greece banned the Macedonian language and made it illegal to be spoken and fined people for speaking it. These were people who spoke no other language but Macedonian. During harder times Greek authorities imposed heavy fines, beat, fed castor oil to them and jailed Macedonians for speaking the Macedonian language, the only language they knew.

After the Greek Civil War (1946-1949) tens of thousands of Macedonians including 28,000 children ages 2 to 14 were exiled from Greece, had their citizenship taken away and had their properties confiscated. More than half of these people are now living in Toronto, Canada.

Canada´s recognition of the Republic of Macedonia by its constitutional name has given these Macedonians some comfort that there are people in the world who still care but it is not enough to repair the injustices perpetrated by the Greek State over the years.

For some Macedonians it has been more than five generations of exile while patiently waiting for Greece to make things right.

Judging by how Greece and the Greek people behave nowadays however it appears, at least to this observer, that Greece has no intention of making things right for the Macedonian people. If Greece does not make reparations soon and continues to abuse and torment the Macedonian people then Macedonians have no choice but to want to separate from Greece and join the free Republic of Macedonia.

It has been proven over and over and over again that there is no justice in Greece for the Macedonian people so the only option left to them is to seek justice for themselves by removing themselves from the Greek yoke. It is clear at least to me that Greece fears this will happen but does not have the courage to take proper action to make it right.

Macedonians have shown for many generations that they can co-exist with other ethnicities but have refused to accept subordination. Macedonians can live in Greece as equals to the Greeks but not as their subordinates. Unfortunately after one hundred years of living under Greece, Greece has made no effort to better the condition for Macedonians living there. Greece has proven its cruelty towards the Macedonian people by its hostile acts not only in Greece but worldwide. So I ponder, what does the future hold for the Macedonian people? One and only one thing comes to mind! If Greece does not reverse its injustices and make things right there is but one choice for the Macedonian people; struggle to separate Macedonia from Greece.

**George S.** · 01-03-2013, 08:05 PM

What is the Future for the Macedonian People?
Risto StefovSeptember 28, 2008
I have said it before and I will say it again, the Greek dispute with the Republic of Macedonia over the name "Macedonia" is nothing more than a ploy, a con, a ruse, to sidestep the real issues; the status of the Macedonian minority in Greece.

Greece is doing everything it can to take attention away from its dismal human rights record by focusing on something intangible like the name dispute.

The name dispute for Greece is another excuse to avoid coming clean with the Macedonian people.

What will Greece gain if Macedonia is not called Macedonia?

NOTHING!

Greece already has everything that is Macedonian, the Macedonian heritage, Macedonia's history and 51% of Macedonia's territory.

So, why is Greece complaining?

Greece is cleverly down-playing the Greek-Macedonian name dispute and making it look like it is about ancient history.

"Macedonia is Greek from ancient times" is a way of making an issue out of a non-issue. Why should anyone care about such a ridiculous claim?

By doing so Greece is achieving the following objectives:

1. In the eyes of the world, it is down-playing the dispute and making it appear trivial.

2. It is drawing our attention away from the real issues.

3. It is putting Macedonia and the Macedonian people on the defensive and forcing a fight for what appears to be a non-issue.

What in fact we should really be doing is asking the following questions:

1. How did Macedonia REALLY become Greek?

2. How did Greece get the Macedonian heritage?

3. How did Greece get Macedonia's history?

4. How did Greece get 51% of Macedonia's territory"?

Greece is afraid that if the answers to these questions become known, then the truth will come out and there will be hell to pay.

So, what can we do to bring our issues with Greece on track?

It is very important to first recognize Greece's tactics and simply not play their game.

We must also bring attention to the following issues and make them our goals. Before we negotiate the name, we must insist that Greece;

1. Recognize the Macedonian minority inside Greece.

2. Grant human rights with full privileges to all minorities living inside Greece.

3. Allow the exiled Macedonian refugee children to return to Greece.

4. Compensate the families whose properties the Greek State confiscated.

5. Allow all Macedonians who were forcibly evicted by the Greek State to return and reclaim their homes and properties.

6. Take responsibility for the atrocities it committed against the Macedonian people during the Balkan Wars and the Greek Civil War.

It is every Macedonian's responsibility to disassociate himself or herself from debating with the Greeks on non-issues and bring the dispute where it really belongs, to the human rights arena.

Everyone concerned, including the international negotiators and mediators, MUST become familiar with the history of how Macedonia became Greek?

1. It is a well documented fact that Greece, in 1912, 1913 during the two Balkan Wars, entered and forcibly occupied Macedonian territory illegally without the consent of the Macedonian people. It then, along with its partners Bulgaria and Serbia, went on a rampage bombing Macedonian villages and indiscriminately killing and murdering entire populations.

2. It is a well documented fact that as soon as Greece consolidated its hold on Greek held Macedonia, it murdered or forcibly exiled all Macedonians who refused to accept its conditions.

3. It is a well documented fact that after ethnically cleansing the Macedonian population, Greece brought Greek settlers from Asia Minor, Epirus and other regions and settled them on Macedonian territory, mostly on the lands of the exiled Macedonians, without their consent.

4. It is a well documented fact that during the early 1920's Greece began a campaign of denationalization by banning the Macedonian language and making it illegal to speak Macedonian in Macedonia. It then proceeded to forcibly change all peoples' names and toponyms.

5. It is also a well documented fact that during the Greek Civil War, Greece exiled a large part of the Macedonian population, including the 28,000 refugee children, illegally expropriated properties and issued them to new settlers.

The territory which Greece today calls "Greek Macedonia" is in fact "Greek Occupied Macedonia" and has been occupied since 1912. The so-called "Greek Macedonians" are not really ethnic Macedonians at all; in fact they are the "Greek Settlers" who Greece has been depositing on Macedonian lands since the Balkan wars (1912, 1913).

So, what else can we do to progress to the next step?

1. The Macedonian people cannot and must not be content with the status quo. We need to work towards a common strategy that will involve the entire Macedonian nation regardless of where we live, be it in the Republic of Macedonia, Bulgaria, Greece, Albania, Canada, Australia, the USA or the world over. We must recognize that we are one and the same people and we must not allow those who benefit from our misfortunes to divide us. We must promote ourselves vigorously as one nation, one people irrespective of religious, political, or ideological interests.

2. We must work within the laws of the states in which we live in order to achieve our goals. We must also use those laws designed to help us by being diligent and not accepting the status quo.

3. Our strategy was to join world institutions, like NATO and the European Union (EU) because they offer security and human rights but Greece´s opposition will delay or even permanently rob us of those choices. The EU constitution however contains human rights provisions which will help the minorities in Greece and Bulgaria when implemented. It is up to us to ensure that those provisions are implemented.

4. When it comes to our interests, we must take action ourselves and not allow Greece, Bulgaria, or any other foreign power to lead us or to interfere in our affairs.

5. We must help the Republic of Macedonia choose its foreign policies wisely so that all Macedonians benefit from them.

6. It would be wise for the Republic of Macedonia to adopt all Macedonian people worldwide and become "the mother country" to all Macedonians by offering them citizenship. Be it political or economic, strength comes in numbers.

I envision a borderless Macedonia in the future where the Macedonian people will once again have the freedom to call themselves Macedonian, speak their Macedonian language, enjoy their Macedonian culture and have the freedom to travel all throughout Macedonia without fear or repercussions.

**George S.** · 01-03-2013, 08:31 PM

s Greece forgetting something?
Risto StefovSeptember 29, 2008
It has been seventeen years now since the Republic of Macedonia declared its independence from Yugoslavia and Greece is still tormenting the Macedonian people over idiotic issues such as ancient symbols, ancient flags and ancient names.

Even though the Republic of Macedonia is part of geographical Macedonia and by international rights has every right to call itself Macedonia, Greece is adamantly against it.

According to Greece, which has chosen to ignore historic evidence, "Macedonia is Greek" and only the part of geographic Macedonia now under Greece can rightfully call itself "Macedonia".

Greece chose to ignore what was real when it went in pursuit of the ancient glory associated with Ancient City States and tried to portray itself as the New Athens, modeled after an Ancient culture that died more than two millennia ago. When Greece became a country for the first time in 1829, the only real and vibrant cultures living on its soil were Albanian, Vlach, Turkish and Macedonian but Greece ignored reality and opted for creating a brand new mythical culture totally alien to the people.

It seems that everyone in Greece today is suffering from mass amnesia and has forgotten how Albanian the Peloponnesus and Epirus were, how Vlach Thessaly was, how Macedonian Macedonia was and how Turkish Thrace was in the beginning of the 19th century when its capital was Naphplion and its parliamentarians required translators to understand one another. Yes, Greece was indeed a multiethnic state in its humble beginnings but today that is forgotten as Greeks clamber to claim descent from the ancient City States from 2,500 years ago.

Today´s Greece was created from the raw materials of the remnants of the Ottoman Empire from a people that were dominated by foreign rule since Macedonia´s rise to power in the fourth century BC. Greece was conquered by Macedonia, invaded and subjugated by Rome, the Byzantines, the Ottomans and every conqueror, invader and settler that set foot on that soil. Yet Greeks today claim that their population is homogeneous consisting of 98% pure Greeks and 2% Muslim Greeks.

The truth is it doesn´t matter to me what they think of themselves. According to international law, every nation has the right to self declare and so do the Greeks. What matters to me is the hypocritical attitude some Greeks, including all Greek Governments have taken and that is "while idealizing their mythical identity" they "ostracize that of the Macedonians" calling it "fake non-existent"!

Which culture is more genuine? The Macedonian or the Greek? Let´s examine some facts!

1. While the Macedonians make an ethnic distinction between the various ethnic groups living in Macedonia such as Macedonians, Albanians, Turks, Roma and others, Greece claims it has no other ethnicities outside of Greeks even though its composition at its inception consisted of Albanians, Vlachs, Macedonians, Turks, Roma and others. What happened to these people? How did they all become Greeks?

2. While the Macedonians make distinctions between traditions, songs, dances and clothing belonging to the various ethnic groups, Greece claims them all to be Greek including those belonging to the Albanians, Vlachs, Macedonians and Turks.

3. While Macedonia has toponymia that have existed for millennia, toponyms in Greece are no older than at most two centuries. Greece began renaming place names in the Macedonian territories it controls in the 1920´s. There is no Greek history for these place names prior to the 1920´s.

4. While Macedonians spoke many dialects of the Macedonian language, the vast majority of Greeks spoke Albanian, Vlach, Turkish and Macedonian as their mother tongue. Koine or Dimotiki as the Greek language is called today was learned in school.

5. While Macedonians created a literary language based on the most dominant Macedonian dialects Greece adopted the Koine (the ancient international language of commerce) for its people and later tried to purify it by adopting an ancient dead Attic language (Katharevousa) and failed.

Comparing the Greek identity with that of the Macedonian, one can easily conclude that Macedonians are a lot closer to who they claim to be than the Greeks.

So really, what justification does Greece have for claiming "Macedonia is Greek" when modern Greeks have no connection to the ancient City States or to the so called "Ancient Greeks" and their Modern Greek-ness is dubious at best?

Can Greece reasonably and rationally explain why should "Macedonia belong to the Greeks" and not to the Macedonians? After all Greeks do live south of Mount Olympus, be it historically or today, and Macedonians live in Macedonia, the very same land they lived on more than a millennium ago. An answer to this question would be appreciated!

If I may add, according to history the vast majority of people who we define to be "Greek" or "Macedonian" today, are indigenous to the Southern Balkans and have lived on those lands without borders from 338 BC to 1912 AD. That is from the time Macedonia conquered the Ancient City States in 338 BC until Greece invaded, occupied and annexed Macedonian lands in 1912 AD.

So why is Greece calling its citizens "pure Greeks" and the Macedonians "fake" and non existent" since it can be proven that both countries have virtually the same ethnic composition of people (in different proportions)? What is Greece´s problem with the name "Macedonia"?

If Macedonia is Greek why didn´t Greece name itself Macedonia or even name its northern province that it occupied and annexed in 1912 Macedonia? Why did Greece call its northern province "New Territories" and later "Northern Greece"? Why did Greece wait until the late 1980´s to name its northern province "Macedonia" precisely when it was inevitable that a new Macedonian State was about to declare its independence from Yugoslavia? These are serious questions that Greece needs to answer. It owes this to the Macedonian people and to the world.

Until Greece answers the above questions we will assume the following:

Ever since Greece occupied Macedonian territories in 1912 by force and without the consent of the Macedonian people, Greece is on the hook for illegal territorial grabs.

Since 1912 Greece has tortured, murdered and exiled Macedonians, including 28,000 Macedonian children, and illegally confiscated their lands. It has changed peoples´ names and toponyms and has banned the Macedonian language in an effort to "Hellenize" Macedonia and the Macedonian people. Simply put, Greece made every effort to extinguish the Macedonian identity on the Macedonian lands it occupied, including the name "Macedonia" and turn it into Greek. Seeing that it was inevitable that a Macedonian State was about to emerge from the remnants of geographical Macedonia, Greece concocted the story that there was only one Macedonia and that Macedonia belonged to Greece.

Ever since the Republic of Macedonia´s emergence, Greece has made every effort to negate it. Why? Because Greece is now afraid that since the Macedonian people created their own state they will start asking for rights of their brethren Macedonians living in Greece and in the Diaspora and will start asking Greece for the return of their lands and citizenships.

It has been almost 100 years since the Macedonian people witnessed their country liberated from the Muslim Ottomans only to be occupied and partitioned by its Christian neighbours the Greeks, Serbians and Bulgarians. In those 100 years Macedonians have witnessed their villages burned; their fellow Macedonians exiled and stripped of their lands. They have witnessed settlers take over their lands and occupy their homes, their language banished and punishments handed out for speaking it. Their names, surnames, names of their villages, mountains and rivers erased and replaced with foreign names. They have seen entire villages humiliated and forced to pledge allegiance to their occupier.

In 1949 a huge mass of the Macedonian population, including 28,000 children fleeing to save themselves from a war, was permanently evicted, their citizenship stripped and their lands confiscated.

In 1982 Greece passed a law (106841) allowing Greeks by birth to return to Greece excluding Macedonians, even though these Macedonians were born in Macedonia after 1912 and in fact were all Greek citizens. While Greece claims there are no non-Greeks living in Greece it does make a distinction between those of its citizens who support its national myth and those who don´t.

With the emergence of the Republic of Macedonia, Greece again chose the path of self-indulgence refusing the Macedonians their due recognition and right to self declare which leads to the following question: "How long do Macedonians have to wait before they get justice and experience freedom in Greece?"

Where does Greece believe its actions will lead the Macedonian people? Will anyone blame the Macedonians if they start taking matters into their own hands and start looking for recognition elsewhere?

Why is Greece so surprised when yet another country recognizes the Republic of Macedonia by its proper name?

How long does Greece think it can push the Macedonian people around without consequences?

To this date Greece has broken every international minority law in the book. Has it not occurred to Greece that it is not above the law and someday soon these violations will catch up to it?

Greece had best soon start re-thinking its strategy towards its treatment of the Macedonian people because frankly, Macedonians have had enough of Greece. If Greece does not change its attitude and soon manage its Macedonian problem in a fair and equitable way, Macedonians will have no choice but to start very loudly calling for the re-unification of all of Macedonia or for the creation of a Kosovo like Macedonian state out of Greece.

**George S.** · 01-03-2013, 08:33 PM

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What Will Happen to the Grkomani and Bulgaromani?
Risto StefovOctober 01, 2008
Let´s face it, some years from now when the whole of Macedonia is free and independent there will be a chapter in its history called "Greek, Serbian and Bulgarian Occupation of Macedonia". There was the "Roman Occupation", the "Byzantine Occupation" and the "Ottoman Occupation" and yes there will be the "Greek, Serbian and Bulgarian Occupation" of Macedonia. How easily we recognize an "Ottoman Occupation" yet we are so blind to see the current "Greek Occupation". "Can´t see the forest for the trees, I guess". Case in point for the skeptics: 1913 "Serbian Occupied Macedonia", 1991 "Free and Independent Republic of Macedonia". Anyone should be able to extrapolate from that! It´s a matter of time before "Greek and Bulgarian Occupied Macedonia" will also be freed! Which brings us to the question: "What will history say about those who side with the occupiers?" Macedonians have a name for them "Grkomani" and "Bulgaromani".

Even though many of them have wished the Macedonians harm and some have committed crimes against the Macedonian people, I have never spoken ill of them. Recently however, I have become their target of hate and ridicule. I have been impersonated on several occasions by some on internet forums, threatened with bodily harm many times and blamed for things that happened to them that were beyond my control. Still I bear no ill will towards them because to me they are Macedonians who have lost their way. I am however concerned about them, as to what will happen to them when Greece and Bulgaria no longer need them. Will they be branded "collaborators" by their overlords? Will they be branded "traitors" by the Macedonian people? Or will they become "more Macedonian" than the Macedonians themselves?

History has many examples of people like them, perhaps history has the answers. They better consult history to see what the future holds for them.

Greece and Bulgaria have a tight grip on their people and not only refuse to recognize that minorities live on their respective soils, but also violently discourage their people from self declaring their true identities. This is a serious problem. Encroachment on people´s rights and oppression creates friction and discontentment and usually results in outbursts of violence. Most uprisings, both violent and peaceful, have started this way when governments ignore reality for some self fulfilling purpose. Oh yes, I forgot, all the people that live in Greece are Greeks and all the people that live in Bulgaria are Bulgarians! This kind of thinking is precisely what is wrong with these two countries!

Ethnically, today´s modern Greeks and Bulgarians are not who they say they are. In other words they bear little or no relation to the people they say they have descended from. Macedonians have no problem with that, in fact, the world has no problem with that. When Greece and Bulgaria were hastily created by the Great Powers in the 19th century, they were given arbitrary identities more suitable to Great Power interests than to the interests of the people in those states. Where the Macedonians do have a problem is with how these states treat Macedonians. Even though everyone in the world knows Macedonians exist, Greece and Bulgaria adamantly cling to the idea that Macedonians don´t exist.

When Macedonia was invaded, occupied and partitioned three ways in 1913, no Macedonian was give the choice to self identify. In fact, the majority of Macedonians were "made" into Greeks, Serbians, or Bulgarians against their will. And thus is the crux of our problems today. The only choice Macedonians were given is to live as Greeks, Serbians, or Bulgarians or die as Macedonians. Some choice!

The Macedonian people were forced to cope with not just being assimilated, but being assimilated three different ways by three diverse and opposing entities who hated one another to no end. This hatred of Greeks for Bulgarians and vice versa was imposed on the Macedonian people where Macedonians living in Greece were "expected" to be enemies with the Macedonians living in Bulgaria and so on. Imagine how that must have felt?

Things went from weird to bizarre when all three sides were enlisting Macedonians to fight against other Macedonians during Macedonia´s partition in 1913, during World War I and II, and so on. Bulgaria fought against Greece in WW I and II where Macedonians were present in both camps and were forced to fight against each other. Closer to home, Macedonians fought against other Macedonians during the Greek Civil War. But that´s not all. All three states have in the past enlisted Macedonians to fight other Macedonians on their own soil. Greeks, Serbians and Bulgarians enlisted fighters from Macedonia to do their dirty work. For example the great Greek Hellenizer Karavangelis enlisted the services of Kote from Rula to do his dirty work in Kostur. Vlado Chernozemski was enlisted by the Bulgarians to assassinate the Macedonian revolutionary and intellectual Dimo Hadzhidimov and so on. These were Macedonians who did these dirty deeds for their benefactors.

To truly understand the "Grkoman" or "Bulgaroman" phenomenon one has to imagine an "occupied" people in a world where the conditions for collaboration are "created" by the "occupier".

In order to maintain control of the occupied the occupier needs to know when and where to act and for that he needs reliable information. This information must come from the inside and must be accurate. So, to gain such information the occupier needs to enlist the services of insiders in the occupied world. Unfortunately, the only insiders who are willing to provide this information are those who are either disgruntled individuals or individuals that can be bought in exchange for something they desire such as sums of money, social status, free education, a better job, power over others, etc. However, to prove his loyalty the insider or collaborator is expected to commit some act, usually a criminal act against his own people. This way the occupier will be assured of the collaborator´s loyalty.

So how will a collaborator react to a situation where the occupier is threatened? In such a situation the collaborator will fight for the occupier in order to maintain the status quo.

I am not implying that all "Grkomani" and "Bulgaromani" are collaborators but I do question their actions. If these people have committed no harm to the Macedonian people then what are their motives for siding with the occupiers? So my hope here is that many of these "Grkomans" and "Bulgaromans" are ignorant of their real identity or are taking advantage of the situation for some small personal gain. Thus, no harm done and there is hope for them yet. But for those who have done serious harm, good luck to them!

To be loyal to family and friends is fine but it should not stop people from thinking for themselves and finding out who they really are. I have been told that loyalty to family comes first and I can´t say that I disagree with that. If your parents or grandparents saw themselves as other than Macedonians, for which I am sure they had a reason, does not change the fact that they have a Macedonian ancestry which, when the time comes, will be recognized as such. So where does that leave you? You can argue with me that, that will never happen just as many in the past have argued that Macedonia will never be free of the Romans, Byzantines, or Turks or you can reconsider where you stand and make the right choice.

The Republic of Macedonia´s independence has created a problem for Greece and Bulgaria. Greece and Bulgarian took the 19th century road but somewhere down the line forgot to take a turn when the whole world was turning.

Yugoslavia was whole at one time populated by "South Slavs". In fact Yugoslavia was touted as the Switzerland of the Balkans. But where is Yugoslavia now? Who would have thought Yugoslavia, the Switzerland of the Balkans, would disintegrate to its elemental level? Who would have thought that Yugoslavia was populated by other than "South Slavs"? Believe me; Greece and Bulgaria are not far behind. Their belligerent behaviour towards their minorities, especially the Macedonians, will not serve them well!

So once again, to the people who support our occupiers (yours and ours), when Greece and Bulgaria no longer need you what will become of you?

**George S.** · 01-03-2013, 08:35 PM

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Greece blocks Macedonia from entering NATO
Risto StefovOctober 01, 2008
It is not new news but here are my two cents worth! It should have become painfully obvious to everyone by now that Greece is interested in one and only one thing and that is to eliminate the Macedonian identity at any cost.

Macedonia can´t negotiate its name because it is tightly connected with its identity and Greece will not accept a name that ties Macedonia with its identity. Is there then any wonder why we have no progress on the name issue after 17 years of negotiations?

Macedonia cannot change its name because it would lose its identity and Greece will not accept the existence of a Macedonian identity because it will then be obliged to recognize the Macedonian minority living inside Greece.

So what are we to do? Well, for one we must stop negotiating something that should not be negotiated. By vetoing Macedonia´s entry into NATO last April, Greece has in effect violated the 1995 interim accord which releases Macedonia from its obligation of having to negotiate with Greece. Macedonia must now seize this opportunity and rid itself of these endless negotiations from which it cannot possibly benefit.

Knowing that neither side is going to move in the negotiations, Greece is secure in the belief that as long as these negotiations continue the issue of human rights for the Macedonians in Greece will remain dormant. So it is to the benefit of Greece to continue to negotiate indefinitely.

From what I understand so far, in view of what transpired in Bucharest, the United States has already offered Macedonia guarantees for its territorial integrity. Turkey and China have warmed up to the idea of offering economic ties so in fact if Macedonia plays its diplomatic cards wisely in the long term it will come up a winner.

I hate to believe that France and its followers risked offending the United States and its other NATO allies by supporting Greece in its aims without a hidden agenda of its own. So I am inclined to believe that there are deeper issues within NATO, which I do not care to know. If that is the case then NATO may not last long enough for Macedonia to join it. Putting it another way, why risk anything to join a failing organization? If this is true and NATO will fail, (NATO functioned successfully in the same way since 1945), history will record Greece as the country that broke NATO.

By the way, if Greece blocks Macedonia from entering the European Union and the EU does nothing to stop it then joining that organization is also not worth it. If International organizations allow their member to place their personal interests ahead of their objectives then they are not worth joining.

**George S.** · 01-03-2013, 08:37 PM

Greeks by Birth? - What's that all about?
Risto StefovOctober 03, 2008
Law No. 1540 enacted in 1985 by the Greek government, states that only "Greeks by birth" can claim the right to have their property back, which was illegally taken from them after the Greek Civil War (1946-1949) ended. This not only constitutes discrimination against Macedonians but the regulations in this Law are also contrary to both the Greek Constitution, which upholds respect for persons, and to international engagements.

Since coming to power in 1981 the Pan-Greek Socialist Movement (PASOK), in accordance with its manifesto and pre-election promises, began to solve the problem of repatriating its political refugees exiled since the Greek Civil War. This process was approved by both the democratic and progressive forces in Greece. However the jubilation of the repatriation was short lived. The Greek government made it conditional by law that only "Greeks by birth" may return which meant that a great number of ex Greek citizens and nationals have been deprived of the right to return. Only those acceptable to the Greek State who were also prepared to declare themselves "Greeks" were allowed to return. What kind of democracy is this?

Law No. 1540 states that only "Greeks by birth" can claim the right to have their property returned, while those who do not declare themselves as "Greeks by birth" lose the right to their property.

Is history repeating itself?

This law is reminiscent of the dark period when massive numbers of people, after being declared "Greeks by birth ", were uprooted from their ancestral lands, exchanged and re-settled, many ending up in Greek held Macedonia. This occurred during the Balkan Wars (1912/1913) and during and after the First World War. But lessons had been learned and after the Second World War nations were created based on the needs of the people and not by oppression, assimilation and genocide. A new spirit was born; the spirit of mutual respect and cooperation not only between people but also between nations. How then are we to judge what the Greek State did half a century later? How should we view a law especially designed to discriminate against a people? How far does such a regulation agree with the Constitution of the Republic of Greece, which was passed on July 11, 1975 (one year after the fall of the military junta), where in article 2 paragraph 1 it says "respect and protection of human dignity are the primary obligation of the Greek state"? And continues: "Greece, in accordance with the universal rights accepted by international law, strives to strengthen peace and justice, as well as the development of friendly relations among nations and countries." To what extent does the regulation for the return of political refugees and their rights to their property agree with this Constitution? And what is the purpose of these acts passed by the Greek government?

Law No. 1540 consists of the following main characteristics:

1. Regulations brought in during the Greek Civil War, on which basis the property of political refugees was confiscated, are abolished;

2. Properties will be returned only to those persons who came back to stay and live in Greece;

3. Proprietors can seek the return of their property if it has not been awarded to another person. If so, then proprietors have the right to receive property in other parts of Greece (except Attica) on condition they farm the land;

4. Applicants can be awarded financial damages;

5. The law does not deal with the return of ownership of property to those refugees who continue to live outside of Greece, nor does it deal with the question of their heirs who live outside the borders of Greece.

Excluding the Macedonians

With the formula "Greeks by birth", law No. 1540 discriminates against Greek political refugees of Macedonian descent. Greek refugees of Macedonian descent in practice are deprived of the right to return to Greece, which automatically deprives them of the right to have their own property returned to them. This law is not only an act of economic discrimination, but also a deliberate Greek government policy to "permanently" solve the Macedonian question. This however is in direct contravention of the United Nations General Declaration of Human Rights, especially with Article 13, which states:

(1) "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including their own, as well as to return to their own country". With this law the right of Macedonian political refugees to return to their own country is removed. Moreover, Article 17 of the Declaration states:

(2) "No one can be deprived of their own property against their will".

According to Articles 13 and 17, as stated above, the Greek Civil War refugees of Macedonian descent, including the 28,000 child refugees, became refugees in the chaos of the Greek Civil War. Therefore the Greek government has no right to deprive them of their own property by an unconstitutional law, which is also contrary to international law. Law No. 1540 would only be just and humane if it did not discriminate (1) against non-Greeks who are Greek citizens and (2) gave the right of ownership of property to (a) all refugees regardless of their ethnicity and (b) regardless of where they live. Any limitation is a violation of both property rights and human rights.

This law it would appear was enacted to take revenge on those who participated on the losing side of the Greek Civil War for crimes never proved in a court of law. The two laws (confiscation of property and deprivation of citizenship) enacted by the PASOK government are another means of demeaning the Macedonian national minority living in Greece and justifying the continuation of the denationalization policies perpetrated by the Greek state on its citizens.

This law not only affects ethnic Macedonians from Greece living in European countries, but also those inhabiting countries overseas. The law clearly states that all those who are not "Greeks by birth" are excluded from the right to property, as well as their children who escaped from Greece after January 1, 1945 and their descendants born after the Civil War. In this way the Greek state is attempting to permanently deprive the Macedonian people of the right to their own property. This is contrary to the universal rights accepted by international law, the Declaration of the United Nations on human rights, and the Final Act of Helsinki, signed by Greece, which actually refers to these rights in its own Constitution. In light of this, the law issue here is both against the regulations of the Greek Constitution and international laws and the Declaration of the United Nations, which Greece is obliged to respect in order to prove that it is a practicing democratic country.

Therefore it would be wise and opportune for Greece to annul this law as unconstitutional, as was done with the law for confiscation of properties in 1953. The same property is involved in both cases. In connection with the question of property the Yugoslav side expressed its attitude in 1953 in the following way: "In light of this situation the Yugoslav government can not be expected to be deaf to the request for help and support of the Greek refugees from Aegean Macedonia who now live in Yugoslavia. It is only right that we bring up the question of protection of their legitimate property and the possibility for their return to their homes in Greece."

Obligation according to Greece´s constitution

The question of "returning to Greece" and "awarding of property" to the political refugees is an internal question for the Republic of Greece. However the question of law regulating the "right of return to their birth place" and "the right to their own property", which excludes Macedonians only because they do not wish to change their national identity, goes beyond the limits of Greek internal policy, even more so since Greece, as was mentioned above, is obliged to respect human rights in the spirit of generally accepted international acts, signed by her.

Thus Macedonians, no matter where they live, have the right to seek the return of their own property in Macedonia under Greece and should do so. Without a change in the present Greek discriminatory and assimilatory policy, it is certain that Greece "in accordance with the universal rights accepted by International law", to quote the Greek Constitution, will not be able "to strengthen peace and justice, as well as development of friendly relations among nations and countries". Greece's own Constitution holds it to this.

Since the Republic of Greece is constitutionally obliged to act in accordance with international law, the Greek government has an obligation to its own people and to the international public, as well as to the United Nations, to respect its own Constitution. The universality to which the Greek Constitution aspires includes among other things, respect of the rights of minorities.

NOTE: It is interesting to note that the only demographic statistics that Greece officially holds true are those from 1928 in which Greece declared that its population consists of 98% Greeks and 2% Muslim Greeks which begs the question "who is Greek by birth and who isn´t?"

Is an Asia Minor Christian Turk born in Asia Minor and settled on Greek held Macedonia after the 1920´s a "Greek by birth"?

Of course they are!

What about an indigenous Macedonian born in Macedonia (held by Greece) after Greece´s annexation of Macedonia in 1913? Is that "a Greek by birth"?

Of course not! Because if he or she were "Greek by birth" then Greece would not need Law No. 1540 to discriminate against them!

Source: Pages 6 and 7, Macedonian Magazine # 395, March 1986

**George S.** · 01-03-2013, 08:39 PM

Are Modern Greeks direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks?
Risto StefovOctober 04, 2008
It doesn´t matter to me if Modern Greeks claim to be the descendents of the so called "Ancient Greeks" or the descendents of the Greek gods themselves as long as they stay away from interfering in the affairs of the ethnic Macedonians. Unfortunately they can´t help themselves so it leaves me no choice but to respond to their claims.

For those who have repeatedly accused me of saying that Modern Macedonians are the direct descendents of the Ancient Macedonians, here is my answer:

"I have never said that Modern Macedonians are direct descendants of the Ancient Macedonians! All I have said is that modern Macedonians who are indigenous to Macedonia and have lived in Macedonia for over a millennium are a product of the Ancient Macedonians and all invaders and settlers who have ventured in Macedonia and as such are entitled to be called Macedonians. I have also said Macedonia is a multi-ethnic state consisting of a majority of Macedonians both Christian and Muslim and several minorities including Albanians, Vlachs, Turks, Roma and others. I can back my claim with all kinds of demographic statistics from various censuses conducted over the years."

Greeks on the other hand, constantly claim that they have a long lineage, a history and a language that extends back to the so-called ancient Greeks (I have hundreds of e-mails to prove my point). At the same time Greeks also say that Macedonians don´t exist and the Modern Macedonians are nothing more than "Slavs", "Bulgars" and "Skopjans" (a newly coined derogatory reference to the Macedonians in the Republic of Macedonia and to any ethnic Macedonian who dares call him or herself Macedonian). Greeks have also made claims that Modern Macedonians are a product of Yugoslavia and Tito´s imagination.

However it is Greece and not Macedonia that to this day still claims it is populated by 98% pure Greeks and 2% Muslim Greeks and has yet to officially conduct a single observed census!

How can a region in the Balkans where modern Greece is located today, which has been open to a multitude of invasions, conquests and settlements, remain homogeneous and untouched for more that two thousand years? This is a question that every Greek who subscribes to the purity of Greece should be asking.

Ironically, while most Greeks subscribe to the idea that they are pure Greeks, they also subscribe to the idea that Modern Macedonians are "fake".

Something is not right!

Ever since Philip II of Macedonia conquered the Ancient City States at the conclusion of the battle of Chaeronea in 338 BC, the region that is covered by today´s Modern Macedonia and Modern Greece has been without borders and open to all kinds of invasions, conquests and settlements including those of the Romans, Byzantines and Ottomans. Neither country has been spared by conquerors, invaders and settlers over the years.

Greeks like to challenge the Macedonians regarding the name "Macedonia" on account of the Greek claim that Macedonians don´t exist and those people living in Macedonia are not really Macedonians, therefore they can´t use the name "Macedonia" because it doesn´t belong to them.

Fair enough. However Macedonians can make the same claim about Greece and the Greeks. There were no "Ancient Greeks" since the word "Greek" was not coined until after the Roman conquests, approximately 600 years after the establishment of the City States and approximately 150 years after they were conquered by the Macedonians. There were only Ancient City States, but at the time they were not called Greeks! Yet today we have ten million people who do call themselves "Greeks" and do claim they are the descendents of a race of people called "Ancient Greeks" when such a name never existed at the time! Besides, how do we know that those who today call themselves "Greeks" are really "Greeks" and not the product of all the people that settled that region over the years? Is there some sort of test to prove they are pure?

It is also well known that the Ancient City States were never united politically and never established themselves as a single state. In fact they existed politically independent from one another and fought each other for political and economic dominance of the region.

In fact the region where Modern Greece is today was never called Greece until recently (1800´s AD) when Greece became a state for the first time. Only just recently "Greece" was given a Latin name by the Great Powers Britain, France and Russia which is used internationally but Modern Greeks prefer to call themselves Hellenes (Ellines) and their state Hellas (Ellas).

By using the name "Greek" to refer to both the ancient and modern people, the Greek state falsely implies descent of the modern Greeks from the ancients.

By using the name "Greece" to refer to both the ancient and modern states, the Greek State is falsely implying;

(1) Continuity between the ancient City States and modern Greece, and

(2) That there was some sort of political unity between the Ancient City States themselves where one did not exist.

In reality the words "Greece" and "Greek" were popularized by modern 19th century writers. There are no ancient maps created before the 1800´s that refer to that region as "Greece". But there are Ancient maps of that region.

The Romans may have made some references to the ancient people living in Sicily as "Graecos" but they referred to the region where Greece is today as "Achaia". There is a map made of marble in Rome, preserved from Roman times that can attest to that. (See photo)

During the Ottoman era the people now living in Greece called themselves Romeos (Romans).

Greece is a newly created state that never existed before the 19th century. The Kingdom of Greece, occupying the region of Morea, present day Peloponnesus, was created for the first time in 1829. Between 1829 and 1912 the Greeks enlarged their territory to present day Greece, by conquering Crete, Epirus, Thessaly and 51% of Macedonia.

At its inception Greece started out with a small population of less than one million people, most of whom were Albanians, Slavs, Turks and Vlahs with a small minority of other ethnicities. By the time Greece conquered Epirus and Thessaly, its population grew to three times its original size. In 1907 it registered a population of 2,600,000. After it conquered Macedonia and exchanged populations with Bulgaria and Turkey, its population tripled. In 1928 Greece registered 6,200,000 people. One million one hundred thousand of them were Christian Turks, settlers from Asia Minor.

After the Treaty of Lausanne in July 1923, and after the population exchanges with Turkey, Greece declared itself homogenous consisting of 100% pure Greeks with a very small Muslim but ethnically Greek population.

It is estimated that after Macedonia was conquered, occupied and had some of its population evicted, more than one million Macedonians still remained in Greek held Macedonia.

According to Greece however, there were no non-Greeks left in Macedonia after its population exchanges. Also according to Greece, the ancient Macedonians were extinct, killed off by the Slavs during the so called Slav invasions around the 6th century AD.

So the question that begs to be asked here is, "What ethnicity were those more than one million or so people who remained in Macedonia and became part of Greece?" Many Greeks would argue that they were Bulgarians because Macedonians do not exist!

If that were the case, then how can the modern Greeks claim purity and homogeneity if at least 16% of its population in 1928 was non-Greek? What about its Vlah, Slav, Albanian and Turkish elements? Clearly they are not Greeks, let alone being direct descendents of the ancient Greeks?

Even this small argument shows that there is something "really wrong" with these Greek claims.

For over a century and a half, Greek State institutions, organizations and individuals have been making unproven and unfounded allegations that the modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks. To this day they have shown no evidence to prove their claims. In fact the opposite is true. There is ample evidence that proves that this particular Modern Greek claim is wrong from the outset.

This exact issue was tackled by Historian John Shea in chapter 4 of The Great Ethnic Mix of Greece, pages 77 to 96, in his book "Macedonia and Greece, The Struggle to Define a New Balkan Nation". Among other things, John Shea proves that even the ancient people were not homogeneous.

"It has been estimated that in classical times the number of slaves in Attica was roughly equal to the number of free inhabitants, or around 100,000. In Sparta there was an even greater proportion of slaves, and most of them, the helots, were Messenians. While the slaves of Athens were a wide racial mix and therefore less likely to unite on the basis of a common language, these Messenian helots of Sparta all spoke Greek, and had a kind of group self-consciousness. Thus they presented ´special problems of security for their Spartan masters, whose numbers were constantly on the decline.´ Changes in the ethnic composition of Greek city-states are illustrated by the comments about the case of Piso. Piso, who had been the recipient of an unhelpful decision by a vote of the Athenian city assembly, ´made a violent speech in which he said that the latter-day Athenians had no right to identify themselves with the great Athenians of the days of Pericles, Demosthenes, Aeschylus, and Plato. The ancient Athenians had been extirpated by repeated wars and massacres and these were mere mongrels, degenerates, and the descendants of slaves. He said that any Roman who flattered them as if they were the legitimate heirs of those ancient heroes was lowering the dignity of the Roman name.´ Such historical ideas make it clear that even two thousand years ago the notion of ethnic purity amongst the Greeks was difficult to sustain. The ethnic mix continued over the next two thousand years. As Nicol has observed, ´The ancient Greeks were, after all, of very mixed ancestry; and there can be no doubt that the Byzantine Greeks, both before and after the Slav occupation, were even more heterogenous´." (Pages 83 and 84, John Shea, Macedonia and Greece, The Struggle to Define a New Balkan Nation)

The truth is modern Greeks are not only NOT direct descendents of the ancients, but their claims to being "Greek" is dubious at best. It is Greece and the Greeks that are a modern 19th century creation: Not Macedonians. History can prove that!

The greatest victims of Greek "claims" are the Greeks themselves.

**George S.** · 01-03-2013, 08:41 PM

Is "Ancient Greek" a mother tongue in Modern Greece?
Risto StefovOctober 06, 2008
Frankly I am tired of hearing Greeks boasting of how they can speak, read and write in the language of the so-called Ancient Greeks, but I don´t mind. What I do mind however, is when they call me ignorant for not being able to see the connection that Modern Greeks are related to the so-called Ancient Greeks because they both speak the same language. Almost every e-mail I receive from Greeks makes the statement, "how can I not see that the Greek people today speak the very same language people spoke 2,500 years ago?" Many claim they can understand every word on stone inscriptions made 2,500 years ago. I believe them!

Now suppose I picked up an Egyptian tablet from 5,000 years ago written in hieroglyphs and was able to read and understand every word, would you believe me? Yes you would! But what if I told you because I can speak, read and write Ancient Egyptian I am a direct descendent of the Ancient Egyptians? Would you still believe me? Maybe? What if I told you I learned to speak, read and write Ancient Egyptian in school would you still believe that I am a direct descendant of the Ancient Egyptians? You decide!

Now to respond to statements made by Greeks on "how can I not see that the Greek people today speak the very same language people spoke 2,500 years ago?" Yes I can see! Yes, you do speak, read and write in the language of the Ancients but what you fail to understand is how that came about. What you fail to understand is that not too long ago (early 1800´s) your state made the Ancient language the official language of Greece. Your great-grandparents were educated in school to speak, read and write that language. Your great-grandparents did not learn that language from their parents and grandparents. Also as they were learning that language they were discouraged and prohibited from speaking their own mother tongue, the language of their parents. In time and with every generation, your great-grandparent´s mother tongue was forgotten and that is how you came to speak, read and write this Ancient language.

In the 1820´s, just as Greece was about to become a state for the first time, the most prevalent languages, besides Turkish, spoken on its soil were Albanian, Vlach and Macedonian. The so-called "Greek" language was a derivation of the Ancient Koine, the root language of the Christian Orthodox Church and of the Modern Greek "Dimotiki". Koine was only spoken by educated people and Church Clergy before Greece made it its official language.

Koine is an Ancient language which made its way into Macedonia a little before Philip II´s time (circa 400 BC). Poorly worded and misspelled inscriptions written in Koine were found in the Ancient Macedonian capital which indicates that the language was not well understood and was just making its way there.

The roots of the Koine language may have started in one of the more progressive City States, most probably Athens, but by the time it made its way to the Eastern Mediterranean, it had become the language of administration and commerce, common to all Mediterranean nations.

In Macedonia, Koine was strictly the language of the educated and was used by the court administrators and the international merchants.

By the time Koine arrived in Macedonia it was already the "lingua franca" of administration and commerce in the Eastern Mediterranean world.

Koine in those days was like English is today. In Europe, for example, countries have their own languages which they use to communicate at home, but internationally they use English to communicate with other countries.

Alexander the Great was the first to take Koine out of the Mediterranean world to Asia, Africa and other worlds he conquered.

The real heroes for Koine´s success were Alexander´s successors the Antigonids, Seleucids and the Ptolemies. It is well known that the Ptolemies not only insisted on using Koine but they refused to learn any other language not even the languages of those people they ruled.

Cleopatra VII was the only Macedonian sovereign from the Ptolemaic dynasty who broke the Ptolemaic rule and learned several languages including Egyptian.

The Koine language was so deeply rooted in the old Macedonian empires that even after they were conquered by the Romans it continued to flourish. Koine was spoken by Roman intellectuals even in Rome. Almost all ancient literary works were written in Koine

Let´s not forget that throughout the Macedonian and Roman periods Koine, in spite of its popularity with the educated and elite, remained a language of administration and commerce. Koine was never a language of the common people.

While Koine served its purpose in the administrative and commercial circles, other languages, languages of the people, simultaneously also flourished in parallel but in their oral form until they were later codified by Christianity.

After the Roman Empire split into East and West, Koine again resurfaced and replaced Latin as the administrative language of the Eastern Orthodox (Byzantine) Empire.

Koine remained active and served the administration and commerce of the Byzantine world for over a millennium.

Interestingly, Koine also became the administrative and commercial language of the educated Christians in the Ottoman Empire and continued to exist in a religious, commercial and administrative capacity during Ottoman rule as it did during Byzantine rule.

By Islamic law, Muslims were not allowed to travel outside of their domain, handle public funds, or speak foreign languages. The Ottomans employed Christians to administer foreign affairs, banking and trade with the outside world. And yes, you guessed it; the Christians continued to employ the Koine language throughout Ottoman rule as they did during Byzantine rule.

The keepers of the Ottoman administrative and commercial services as well as the rulers of the Christian world inside the Ottoman Empire were known as the Phanariots.

The Phanariots were a Christian educated and professional middle class or the bourgeoisie of the Ottoman world. They were people from various ethnicities from every corner of the Ottoman world. They were the clerics, the translators (dragoman), the merchants and the captains of ships and of industry and they all spoke Koine. They were called Phanariots because they were based in a district of Constantinople or Istanbul known as the Phanar.

In the 19th century, during the Ottoman decline, the Phanariots were much in favour of toppling the Ottoman administration. The idea was to overthrow the Ottoman Sultan and his Muslim rule and replace it with Christian rule. Unfortunately the Great Powers did not favour the idea and it failed. After that the Phanariots worked closely with the Great Powers to establish the Greek Kingdom, and the Serbian and Bulgarian States.

Even though the people of the newly established Greek Kingdom were of many different ethnicities including Albanians, Vlahs, Macedonians, Turks, etc., each with a unique language and culture, the Great Powers instilled upon them the idea that they were the descendents of the ancient people who lived in that region over two millenniums ago.

After Greece became a country, it contemplated for a decade as to which language to use. Greek authorities finally decided to adopt the Koine language as the language of the people in their new nation. They disregarded all vibrant and living peoples´ languages in favour of the ancient administrative and commercial Koine.

Unfortunately after two millennium of evolution, the modern version of Koine contained many foreign elements and proved distasteful to the Greek purists who wanted a pure language which was close to those of the ancient City States.

After nearly a century of using Koine, the purists finally got their chance to replace it. Their new choice was a dead old Attic language used by the ancient Athenians 2,500 years ago. The Greeks called their new language the "Catharevoussa" for its linguistic purity.

Unfortunately this language had been dead for two thousand years and the Greek literary world, which was used to the bastardized impure Koine called the "Dimotiki", found it very difficult to understand and impossible to express emotion. Its use was finally terminated in the 1970´s in favour of the bastardized Koine (Dimotiki).

For those Greeks who insist that all ancient Greeks spoke a dialect of the same language, here are some simple and common everyday words in English, Ancient Attic and Modern Koine;

English, Catharevoussa(Ancient Attic), Dimotiki(Koine)

Horse, Ipos, Alogo

Donkey,Onos, Gaidaros

Hen, Ornitha, Kota

Goat, Ega, Gida (Katsika)

Kid (baby goat), Erifi,Katsiki

Bread, Artos, Psomi

Just because Greece adopted Koine as the national language for its Modern Greek nation, does not necessarily make it Greek. Koine evolved as the language of administration and commerce in the entire Eastern Mediterranean world and as such it belongs to all the people in the Eastern Mediterranean.

So if someone chose to learn the Koine language and was able to read and understand the writing on Ancient inscriptions would that make them Greek? Can they too claim to be a direct descendent of the so-called "Ancient Greeks"? Think about it!

Modern Greeks are victims of their own making!

**George S.** · 01-03-2013, 08:49 PM

Where the Ancient "Greek gods" really Greek?
Risto StefovOctober 07, 2008
In the many debates I have entangled myself with Greeks who love to defend the "Greek-ness" of the ancient Macedonians there is one re-occurring theme and that is "the Ancient Macedonians were Greek because they worshipped the Greek gods". This is a natural and automatic response which Greeks constantly use to justify their claims that the "Ancient Macedonians were Greek" so I felt it was worth investigating.

We often read in books, see movies and hear stories about the so called mythical "Greek gods" but have we ever stopped to think what makes these deities Greek? Are they "Greek" because they originated where modern Greece is today? Are they "Greek" in a national sense? Are they Greek because the Ancients that lived in the region where modern Greece is today wrote about them? How are they "Greek"?

The word "Greek" before the word "gods" implies that there is a relationship between "Greek" and "gods" which means that in some way these gods belong to Greece or the "Greeks". Since these "gods" are not associated with other Mediterranean people such as the Macedonians, Paeonians, Illyrians, Thracians, Phrygians, Lydians, Carians, Lycians, Paphlagonians, Cappadocians, Cilicians, Picidians, Pamphylians and others, in a similar manner, who also celebrated and believed in them, then one is led to believe that these gods must be exclusively connected to Greece and the "Greeks"

The question is how are they Greek?

Among several sources we consulted, Microsoft´s Encarta encyclopedia under the heading "Greek Mythology" had an explanation but this explanation did not enforce the idea that the so called "Greek gods" were actually "Greek".

According to Encarta, mythology in written form appeared for the first time in the literary works of Hesiod and Homer around the eighth century BC. Homer, as we know, produced the famous works the "Iliad" and "Odyssey" and Hesiod produced the poems "Theogony". Both authors in their respective works talk about the various tales and legends associated with ancient deities. Hesiod, however, according to Encarta, takes a step further and introduces a larger number of myths that include deities that are not mentioned by Homer. Hesiod, in "Theogony", talks about the creation of the world, the birth of the gods as well as their adventures, but NEVER ONCE mentions "Greek" or any other name derived from this word!

Similarly, Homer in his works the "Iliad" and the "Odyssey", considered to be reliable sources for the so called "Greek Mythology" and the "Greek gods", NEVER ONCE mentions the word "Greek" or any other name derived from this word!

So again, how are these so called "Greek gods" "Greek"? Maybe the authors who wrote about them were from the region where modern Greece is today?

According to Carlos Parada, an internationally recognized researcher and expert on mythology, the following authors have contributed to the so called "Greek mythology";

Author.............% Contribution.......Lived in/Ethnicity...................Year.

Apolodorus................19......Alexandria/Unknown *..........2nd Cent. AD

Paucsanias................12.....Lydia/Lydian............................................ ...

Hyginus......................12.....Rome/Unknown(Spanish?)....1st Cent. AD

Homer.........................8......Asia Minor?/Unknown...........8th Cent. BC?

Ovid............................6.......Rome/Roman.......................43BC-17AD

Nonnus.......................5.......Egypt/Egyptian....................5th Cent. AD

Hesiod.......................4.6.....Boeotia/Boeotian **.............8th Cent. BC?

Diodorus Siculus……4.4.....Sicily/Sicilian........................21 BC

Virgil...........................4.......Mantua Italy/Roman............70 and 19 BC

Quintus Smynaeus…3.3………................................... ...................

Statius.......................2.6.....Rome/Roman......................1st Cent. AD

Antonius Liberalis.......2......Rome/Roman................................

Valerius Flaccus.........2......Rome/Roman.......................1st Cent. AD

Apollonius Rhodius...1.8.....Alexandria ? Unknown.........3rd Cent. BC

Dionysius

of Halicarnassus.......1.5.....Caria/Unknown.....................1st Cent. BC

Euripides..................1.5.....Attica/Athenian **..................480 BC

Plutarch....................1.3.....Boeotia/Boeotian **..............46 AD

Herodotus..................1......Caria/Carian..........................484-425 BC

Pindarus (Pindar)…...1......Thebes/Boeotian...................518-438 BC

Parhenius of Nicaea..1......................................... ..............................

Aeschylus.................0.5..................... ................................................

Aristophanes............0.4....................... ..............................................

Caimachus...............0.4....................... .................................. ………

Cicero.......................0.3.................. ..................................................

(*) Highest probability - Macedonian

(**) From Ancient City States south of Mount Olympus where Modern Greece is located today.

From the table above, we can see that the vast majority of works about the so-called "Greek mythology" and the "Greek gods" were in fact written by NON-GREEKS or by authors of unknown origin/ethnicity.

If the authors who wrote about them were not "Greek" then perhaps the legends of the so called "Greek gods" originated somewhere in the lands of modern Greece?

Unfortunately, that is not true either. According to Herodotus, many of the elements of the so called "Greek myths" associated with the "Greek gods" were borrowed from foreign religions, mainly from the Pelasgi who in turn borrowed them from the Egyptians. (There are some scientists today who believe the Pelasgi lived in the lower Balkans, including Macedonia and were the ancestors of the Slavs).

However, let as not just take Herodotus´s word. Let´s examine the mythological deities themselves starting with the supreme god Zeus.

According to the Grolier Encyclopedia, Zeus is a celestial deity of Indo-European origin symbolically associated with the sky. Poseidon, the elder brother of Zeus, is also a deity of Indo-European origin. Apollo, on the other hand, is an Asian deity from the Asian shaman cults, imported from Siberia.

The following is a list of deities and major mythical figures commonly referred to as "Greek gods" and "Greek mythical figures" that are believed to be of "non-Greek" origins;

Deity/Major Figure……..……..Origin………………… Source……..

Rhigmus………………….…Thracian……………….. Carlos Parada

Diomedes…………………..Thracian…………………Carlos Parada

Phineus……………………..Thracian…………………Carlos Parada

Tereus…………………….…Thracian………….……Carlos Parada

Rhesus……………………...Thracian………….…….Carlos Parada

Alcon………………………...Thracian………….…….Carlos Parada

Memnon…………………….Ethiopian………………..Carlos Parada

Alcyoneus…………………..Ethiopian………….Quintus Smyrnaeus

Alexipus…………………….Ethiopian…………..Quintus Smyrnaeus

Clydon………………………Ethiopian…………..Quintus Smyrnaeus

Laomedon………………….Ethiopian…………Quintus Smyrnaeus

Mmeneclus…………………Ethiopian………...Quintus Smyrnaeus

Nychius……………………..Ethiopian…………Quintus Smyrnaeus

Thalius………………………Ethiopian…………Quintus Smyrnaeus

Andromeda…………………Ethiopian………………Carlos Parada

Cepheus……………………Phoenician…………….Carlos Parada

Europa………………………Phoenician……………Carlos Parada

Pelops………………………Phrygian……………….Carlos Parada

Agenor………………………Egyptian……………….Carlos Parada

Belus………………………..Egyptian………………..Carlos Parada

Midus……………………….Phrygian………………..Carlos Parada

Opis…………………………Phrygian………………..Carlos Parada

Aura…………………………Phrygian………………..Carlos Parada

Proteus……………………..Egyptian…………………Carlos Parada

Egeria……………………….Italian………………………..Ovid

Hora………………………...Roman……………………… Ovid

Janus…………………….…Roman……………………Carlos Parada

Juturna………………….….Roman……………………Carlos Parada

Penates……………….……Roman……………………Carlos Parada

Tantalus……………….…...Paphlagonia………………Carlos Parada

Orchamus…………….……Persia………………..……Carlos Parada

Pyramus……………………Babylon…………………..Carlos Parada

Thisbe………………………Babylon…………………..Carlos Parada

Dido…………………………Cartagenan………………Carlos Parada

Nicea………………………..Indian…………………….Carlos Parada

Phoenix…………………….Arabian……………………Carlos Parada

Hypnos……………………..From the Black Sea region Carlos Parada

Muses (9)………………….Macedonian…………………Carlos Parada

Dionysus…………………..Macedonian (Brygian) Grolier Encyclopedia

For details on the above, see Donski, pages 146 to 173, "The Myth about the so-called ´Greek Mythology´", in his book "The Descendants of Alexander the Great of Macedon".

From the table above, we can see that a large number of deities and important mythical figures have purposely or unwittingly been misrepresented. Clearly they are not of "Greek origins"

And finally, perhaps the so called "Greek gods" were "Greek" because they were exclusively celebrated by the ancient people who lived in the lands south of Mount Olympus where modern Greece is today?

That too, I am afraid is not true. The mythical gods, referred to as the "Greek gods", were common to most ancient Mediterranean nations and cultures. They were as much universal to the ancient world as Christ and Christianity is universal to our modern world.

The truth is the Ancient "Greek gods" were not Greek at all! In fact, referring to them as "Greek gods" would not only be a sin but also a myth in itself.

It is more appropriate, truthful and precise to call them Mediterranean gods than it is to call them "Greek gods". After all, they were celebrated, revered and feared by many more nations and cultures north, east and west of Mount Olympus than they were just south of Mount Olympus. And that is the truth.

If Modern Greeks believe that those in the Ancient world who spoke Greek and believed in the Greek gods were actually Greek then Modern Greeks must also believe that those in our Modern world who speak English and believe in our God Christ MUST be English." Is that a fair statement?

Sources

"Greek Mythology". Microsoft Encarta 98 Encyclopedia, USA, 1998.

Aleksandar Donski, "The Descendants of Alexander the Great of Macedon, The Arguments and Evidence that Today´s Macedonians are Descendants of the Ancient Macedonians". Shtip, 2004.

Carlos Parada, "Geneological Guide to Greek Mythology". Philadelphia: Coronoet Books, 1993.

The Columbia Encyclopedia. Third Edition, New York: Columbia University Press, 1963.

Grolier Encyclopedia. Navato: Grolier Electronic Publishing Inc., 1995.

**George S.** · 01-03-2013, 08:52 PM

Most Modern Greeks believe that Macedonians do not exist
Risto StefovOctober 08, 2008
What happens when a Modern Greek who believes Macedonians don´t exist, runs into a Macedonian?

Most Greeks, or at least the ones I have run into, are direct and to the point when they face off with a Macedonian. I have to admit I look Mediterranean and when I run into another Mediterranean looking person I am often asked where I am from. The favoured way for a Greek to ask is "Are you Greek?" to which I respond "No I am not!" The next question would then be "What are you?" to which I would respond "Macedonian". Then without any hesitation the Greek will respond with "What is that? There is no such thing!" Now if I persist and say "Yes there is" I will get a string of insults such as "You are a Slav" or "You are Bulgarian" or "You are a Skopjan". This, as unbelievable as it may sound, happens today not inside Greece but outside, in Canada, the USA and Australia. No Macedonians inside Greece have the courage to call themselves Macedonian without believing their lives would be in danger. I came from Greece and am speaking from experience.

Fair enough! If Greeks think Macedonians don´t exist I accept that but let´s look at the facts about Greece and the Greeks in comparison to the Macedonians and Macedonia.

Modern Greece became a country in 1829. There is no historical record prior to that of the existence of such a state. I welcome anyone to show me a map created before 1800 AD that shows a state called Greece encompassing its current borders.

I would also like to know how many people spoke Greek prior to the 1800´s in the region where Greece is today. It is well known that Greece created the 19th century Greeks by Hellenizing and assimilating a variety of other ethnic groups such as Vlahs, Albanians, Turks, Macedonians, Anatolian Turks and more recently Georgians, Russians, more Albanians and others.

Now let´s look at the Macedonians. The Macedonians are a real ethnic group of people that have existed in Macedonia for at least a millennium.

Unlike most of your Modern Greek great grandparents who spoke anything but Greek, our great grandparents all spoke Macedonian.

Our language which we call Macedonian is a living vibrant language, a language we learned from our mothers, unlike your language the ancient dead Koine which your government resurrected and taught you in school. May I also add that in spite of Greek efforts to stop us from speaking Macedonian for almost a century, we still speak it.

Before the Republic of Macedonia codified the modern Macedonian literary language, Macedonians all over geographical Macedonia spoke a variety of beautiful dialects. Macedonians living in Greece and Bulgaria, which those states refuse to recognize, still speak Macedonian in their original dialects.

Unlike the Greek language which is spoken by only about ten million Greeks, Macedonian is a Slavic language which belongs to a large family of languages spoken by about five-hundred million people throughout Eastern Europe. The fact that this language is so widespread shows that it has survived for many millennia and has been passed on orally from generation to generation.

Modern scholars and scientists believe that the Slavic language has its roots in prehistory. A number of ancient inscriptions deemed undecipherable have recently been successfully deciphered by linguists Vasil Iliov, Anthony Ambrozic, Sergei V. Rjabchikov and others by using the Slavic languages, which indicates that these languages have been around a lot longer than previously thought. Even Alexander the Great may have spoken Slavic. It is well known that Alexander spoke at least two languages. We know one was Koine and the other was a language indigenous to Macedonia labeled "unknown" by Greek historians.

Since no Macedonian or foreign archeologist has even been allowed to dig in Greek occupied Macedonia or examine any archeological findings unsupervised, we can´t verify what other language Alexander the Great spoke. Greek archeologists cannot be trusted to factually report findings, especially those findings that don´t agree with the Greek Government´s "politically correct policies".

If Greeks refuse to acknowledge the existence of "living and breathing Macedonians" what makes you think they would acknowledge the existence of artifacts that do not agree with their political ideology?

Aren´t they the same Greeks who destroyed every speck of Cyrillic (Macedonian) inscription from every single gravestone and church icon in Greek occupied Macedonia in order to erase everything that was Macedonian?

Are they not the same Greeks who torched and burned every single Slavonic book and bible and banned the Macedonian language and made it illegal to speak?

The question that begs to be asked is NOT whether Macedonians exist or not but, "Why do Greeks deny the existence of Macedonians?"

I have often asked Greeks that question and to this day I have not been able to get an honest answer. I believe those Greeks who deny our existence genuinely don´t know themselves why they do it. They have been told from a very young age to believe that somehow Macedonians are a threat to their own existence.

I have often heard expressions like, "they will do anything to take our Macedonia away from us" but to this day, I don´t know who "they" are. Sometimes "they" are the "Bulgars", other times "they" are the "Communists", nowadays "they" are the "Skopjans" and sometimes "they" are "the bad people" like me.

I have repeatedly stated that I was born in Greece and am a Greek citizen of Macedonian ethnic descent; yet to this day no Greek has acknowledged that. They keep ignoring what I say and go back to calling me "Skopjan" and treating me as if I was born not in Greece but in a totally different country. (I am using myself as an example but my situation is identical to the tens of thousands of Macedonians who were born in Greece after 1912, after Macedonia was occupied by Greece.)

Why is it so hard for Greeks to accept the fact that Macedonians live in Greece?

It is a well-known fact that Greece occupied about half of Macedonia´s territory in 1912-1913. The other half was occupied by Serbia and Bulgaria.

It is a well-known fact that Macedonia was already fully populated by Macedonians when it was occupied.

It is also a well-known fact that most Macedonians became Greeks by force.

Is it not possible then that some of those Macedonians who were forced into becoming Greeks actually don´t want to be Greeks?

Well my Greek friends, there IS such a thing as a Macedonian. In fact there are many of us living throughout the entire planet. Our history goes back to about 1,000 BC when the word Macedonian was first coined. I can´t say with certainty that we are direct descendants of those early Macedonians but I can say that there is a high probability that we are not only the descendants of those pre-historic Macedonians but also the descendents of all those who overran and conquered our Macedonia.

Before the nineteenth century, most Macedonians lived in geographical Macedonia. Nineteenth and twentieth century turbulence such as the breakup of the Ottoman Empire, a number of uprisings inside Macedonia, the two Balkan wars, the partition of Macedonia, WW I, WW II, the Greek Civil War and Greek, Bulgarian, Serbian and Albanian oppression, have all contributed to the displacement of many Macedonians. Many left their homeland and went wherever they were welcome. More recently displaced Macedonians as well as political refugees and willing immigrants have been concentrating in Canada, Australia, the USA and Europe where they endeavour to preserve their culture and make their revival.

Greeks can deny our Macedonian existence as much as they want, but it doesn´t mean that we Macedonians don´t exist!

Risto Stefov - Articles, Translations & Collaborations

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