wake up demos you dont represnt greece you represent only you. at your next greek church service ask a few of the parishoners how they feel about expanding greek broders to their "historical" positions.
Risto Stefov - Articles, Translations & Collaborations
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Originally posted by Pelister View PostWhat did I write that was so far fetched.
All I wrote was this.
The language of Christianity in south east Europe since about 323 AD has been in Macedonian, not Greek.
Macedonia was a Church-State, and Empire.
The Church was responsible for running schools, education, law etc since about 323 AD in the Macedonian language, not Greek.
It is a fact that the Bible was translated from Latin and Koine (not Greek) by Ciril and Metodi to a language the averge Macedonians could understand. The Church did this - and the Macedonian Christian Church was the head of the Macedonians for over a thousand years.
Pelister,
Your theory or idea is:
1. Baseless
2. Lacks historical proof or evidence
3. Can never be substantiated by any means
4. Is highly speculative with flawed logic
What's next? Jesus Christ is Macedonian too?...
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Originally posted by osiris View Posthell the russian ukranian belo russian rumanian serbian bulgarian even for a short period of time croatian churches were not speaking in greek in their religious services since the adoption of old macedonian as their liturgical languge, compare this with the paltry sum of greek speakers during that same period.
What Bogov is saying in contast is that the New Greeks had no civilization. They spent a hundred years burning everything they found, renaming the Macedonian monasteries everywhere they went, including on "Mt Athos" ...etc, and giving the Macedonian Christian tradition a "Hellenic" character.
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Originally posted by Demos View PostCoolski,
Stop saying nonsense. As I said before, what incentive does Greece have to invade MOD? I mean, what? Greek businesses have already acquired many businesses in Macedonia without one shot being fired. We have invested over 1 billion euros in that country.
Why in the hell would we invade a foreign country composed of people who are not Greek, but instead Macedonian and Albanian who speak a foreign tongue, and have no relation to Greece or anything Greek whatsoever?
What are we go gain? A couple farms in Bitola and Skopje? We can buy anything we want. Case closed. This talk about Greece invading other countries is so out of touch with reality that whoever is advocating such views should check in with their doctor.
Why should one Greek soldier die for something we do not want or we do not care for. You have your own country, your own Parliament, and all the benefits that go with it. Stop being so paranoid about Greece and Greeks and try solving the 30% unemployment rate instead.
Greece even provides financial aid to Macedonia for infrastructure projects. This talk about invasions etc is just comical...
Greece's national structure has been so incapable of adapting an ethnic Macedonian identity that it is in Greece's national interest to destroy Macedonia's nationhood. There is a simple solution which doesn't involve this, but I feel that greece is too gutless to do so. That is, to recognise that it is a multiethnic balkan country.
Given that you probably don't even know what ethnicity is, i'm wasting my time talking to you. My post was for the others.- Секој чоек и нација има можност да успеат колку шо си дозволуваат. Нема изговор.
- Every human and nation has the ability to be as great or as weak as they allow themselves to be. No excuses.
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Originally posted by Demos View PostCoolski,
Stop saying nonsense. As I said before, what incentive does Greece have to invade MOD?
Repeat shit like that again and you are out of here.Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com
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Makedoniki Demokratiki maybe?Ние македонците не сме ни срби, ни бугари, туку просто Македонци. Ние ги симпатизираме и едните и другите, кој ќе не ослободи, нему ќе му речеме благодарам, но србите и бугарите нека не забораваат дека Македонија е само за Македонците.
- Борис Сарафов, 2 септември 1902
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Originally posted by Coolski View PostIt has been Greece's aim to infiltrate and influence Macedonia from within. It is doing this through puppets such as Crvenkopoulos etc. however upon realising that they will not succeed, they may figure that the only way to silence Macedonia is not to only become Macedonians through inventing the 'Grik Mazedonians' so as to confuse people, but invade the Republic of Macedonia as a last resort.
Greece's national structure has been so incapable of adapting an ethnic Macedonian identity that it is in Greece's national interest to destroy Macedonia's nationhood. There is a simple solution which doesn't involve this, but I feel that greece is too gutless to do so. That is, to recognise that it is a multiethnic balkan country.
Given that you probably don't even know what ethnicity is, i'm wasting my time talking to you. My post was for the others.
Coolski,
Do you have any factual evidence that Greece intends to invade Macedonia? Yes or No?
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Originally posted by Rogi View PostAs much (if not more) evidence as Greece has that the Republic of Macedonia aims to re-unite Macedonia.
Greeks aren't talking about reuniting lost lands of Pelagonia/Monastiri etc. They aren't printing irredentist maps or text in Greek school books. Greece is not involved in Macedonian's internal affairs with regard to the 400 Greeks supposedly living there.
I can't count the number of Macedonian forumers who are directly or indirectly advocating war or the call for insurrection and have even seen a forumer on maknews openly talk of "Death to all Greeks". What has Greece done? We have invested over 1 billion euros in Macedonia and are providing a living to almost 20,000 of your compatriots. We have even met you half way with the inclusion of the term "Macedonia" in your country's name only that you have to place a qualifier to differentiate it from our Macedonia, in the same way there is Mexico and the state of New Mexico in North America. During the early 1990s we had taken a hard line against any inclusion of the term Macedonia, but now we are prepared to meet you in the middle. Are you willing to meet us in the middle?
As I said before, Greece's military might is strictly for defensive purposes. We do not claim anything from anyone, but at the same time we aren't going to give up 1 cm2 of land to anyone either. This is both official and unofficial policy.
Other than that, you have no proof or indication that Greece would go to war with Macedonia. I mean, let's be realistic; Greece going to war with a country of 2 million with no air force to speak of, 30 something old Ukranian tanks, and 10,000 men is laughable. It would be kind of like Italy wanting to invade San Marino or the Vatican.
Let's at least try to keep the debate on a more serious level. There is too much speculation and conjecture which is baseless and relies more so on emotion than cold hard facts.
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Demos, aside from talking about it ... Greece has no justification whatsoever to create maps of a Greater Greece with more of Macedonia in it. On the other hand, my people still live in Greece, I have been there many times. The older ones still are uncomfortable communicating in Greek. They are more than happy to converse with friends in Bitola. The map of a historical Macedonia makes sense to people like me and reminds me of what should have been. Are these maps firing irredentism? No, they merely strengthen my resolve to remind idiots who attempt to undermine the historical character of the region. Some people cannot even accept the PROVEN fact that Greeks accepted the Macedonian identity 100 years ago but not today. So the maps provide a strong and necessary reminder to Greece about the rights of human beings.Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com
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Originally posted by Risto the Great View PostDemos, aside from talking about it ... Greece has no justification whatsoever to create maps of a Greater Greece with more of Macedonia in it. On the other hand, my people still live in Greece, I have been there many times. The older ones still are uncomfortable communicating in Greek. They are more than happy to converse with friends in Bitola. The map of a historical Macedonia makes sense to people like me and reminds me of what should have been. Are these maps firing irredentism? No, they merely strengthen my resolve to remind idiots who attempt to undermine the historical character of the region. Some people cannot even accept the PROVEN fact that Greeks accepted the Macedonian identity 100 years ago but not today. So the maps provide a strong and necessary reminder to Greece about the rights of human beings.
Personal question; do you advocate the changing of borders by whatever means possible up to and including the use of violence. Yes or no?
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No. Not at all, I do not believe it is practical. All I want is human rights for Macedonians wherever they are. Turkey has shown Greece what it needs to do right now, follow their progressive example.Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com
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Originally posted by DemosThey aren't printing irredentist maps or text in Greek school books.
I don't believe Macedonian school books advocate invasions against any of the neighbours, please correct me if I am wrong though and supply something to the contrary, as it seems you are under the assumption that you have been fed the right information from some fountain of wisdom.
Greece is not involved in Macedonian's internal affairs with regard to the 400 Greeks supposedly living there.
I can't count the number of Macedonian forumers who are directly or indirectly advocating war or the call for insurrection and have even seen a forumer on maknews openly talk of "Death to all Greeks".
We have even met you half way with the inclusion of the term "Macedonia" in your country's name.........
...........only that you have to place a qualifier to differentiate it from our Macedonia, in the same way there is Mexico and the state of New Mexico in North America.
Other than that, you have no proof or indication that Greece would go to war with Macedonia. I mean, let's be realistic; Greece going to war with a country of 2 million with no air force to speak of, 30 something old Ukranian tanks, and 10,000 men is laughable.In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostThere are absolutely no school books and/or maps printed in the Greek state at all which make reference to certain parts of history with regard to the 'Megali Idea' of Greece in the 20th century? Get serious.
The map you probably imply is NOT map of "Megali Idea" ,...but Historical Reality,as it's borders are defined by the Treaties of Neiully and Sevres.
It's not about wishful thinking or fantastic "ethnic borders".
On the other hand when i was in Ohrid, in all shops i could find "UnitedMacedoniaMap" souvenirs!
I would find it extremely nationalistic and ridiculous if i ever see a Single One similar "Great/UnitedGreece" map ,in a shop in Greece!
I don't believe Macedonian school books advocate invasions against any of the neighbours, please correct me if I am wrong though and supply something to the contrary, as it seems you are under the assumption that you have been fed the right information from some fountain of wisdom.
This is absolutely false and besides...what on earth are the "ethnic borders"?!?!?
, take away the fancy weaponry and it would be laughable to think Greece can lay a ground assault against the Macedonian state without having its soldiers buried in the fields of Bitola.Last edited by TerraNova; 01-03-2009, 12:21 PM.
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