Risto Stefov - Articles, Translations & Collaborations

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • George S.
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2009
    • 10116

    Macedonian Struggle for Independence Part 37 – The Second Balkan War and Macedoni

    Macedonian Struggle for Independence



    Part 37 – The Second Balkan War and Macedonia’s Partition



    By Risto Stefov

    [email protected]

    January 2011



    The London Conference adjourned on August 11th, 1913, officially declaring an end to the First Balkan War. In spite of all the deals made during the conference, the resolutions left all parties dissatisfied. Serbia was dissatisfied with losing the Albanian territory. Serbia appealed to Bulgaria to grant it access to the Aegean Sea via Solun and the Vardar valley but its appeals fell on deaf ears. Greece also was not happy with Bulgaria’s invasion and annexation of Odrin. To balance her share, Greece wanted Serres, Drama and Kavala as compensation. That too fell on deaf ears.



    Seeing that Bulgaria was not going to budge and the fact that neither Greece nor Serbia alone could take on Bulgaria militarily, should a conflict arise, Greece and Serbia concluded a secret pact to jointly work against Bulgaria. In short, the objective was for Greece and Serbia to take the territory west of the Vardar River away from Bulgaria and divide it and have a common frontier.



    After stumbling upon the Greek-Serbian pact, despite Russian attempts to appease it by offering it Solun, Bulgaria remained bitter and in a moment of weakness was lured away by Austria. By going over to Austria, Bulgaria in effect broke off all relations with the Balkan League. Russia, disappointed with the Bulgarian shift, made it clear that Bulgaria could no longer expect any help from Russia.



    In what was to be termed the “Second Balkan War”, the Bulgarian army, unprovoked, on June 30th, 1913 attacked its former allies on Macedonian soil. The conflict also drew in the Ottomans and Romania.



    After a truce between the Ottomans and the allies was concluded on December 4th, 1912, besides Western Macedonia, the Serbian army had occupied part of Albania and had gained access to the Adriatic Sea. Austria-Hungary however, wanting that region to remain under its sphere of influence, strongly opposed Serbia’s plan. This unfortunately created a cascading effect threatening Russian plans to gain access to Istanbul and forcing France to take measures against Austro-Hungarian expansion by advising Serbia not to withdraw from the Albanian territories. Great Britain came in support of Greece wanting Greece to expand northward and eastward into Ottoman territory in order to block Russian influence in the Balkans and in Istanbul.



    The start of the Second Balkan War sparked a crisis in the region which the Great Powers attempted to resolve by peaceful means. Russia advised Serbia to retreat from Albanian territories in order to avoid conflict with Austria – Hungary. There were also recommendations made that the allies withdraw from Macedonia and follow up on the December 1912 suggestion, made in the London Conference, that Macedonia be given autonomy under Ottoman sovereignty. But that suggestion was rejected. The one suggestion that was followed up on was that made by Austria-Hungary on December 27th, 1912, to create an autonomous Albanian state. This meant that Serbia would have to evacuate all Albanian territory. By the May 30th, 1913 Peace Treaty of London, the Albanian territory was defined as the entire territory north of the Enos-Midia line previously ceded to the Balkan allies. The Ottomans were also ordered to leave Crete and the Great Powers were to decide on Albania’s borders.



    Serbia did retreat from Albania and gave up on its plans to gain access to the Adriatic Sea but now found itself landlocked, so it looked to Bulgaria to grant it access to the Aegean Sea. Serbia’s plan was to acquire a bigger chunk of Macedonia. Dissatisfied with Bulgaria’s silence on the matter, Serbia cancelled its Serbian-Bulgarian treaty regarding the current division of Macedonia. Greece in the meantime requested of its partners to recognize its share of southern Macedonian, including its rights to Solun. Bulgaria, while categorically refusing to cede Macedonian territories to its partners, was secretly hoping to occupy all of Macedonia and acquire Solun for itself.



    On June 1st, 1913 Serbia and Greece signed a secret treaty by which they agreed to forcefully take more Macedonian territory away from Bulgaria. Using the tense situation to its advantage, Romania too jumped in and requested of Bulgaria to hand over southern Dobruja. Not to be outdone and in hopes of gaining back some of their lost territories the Ottomans too jumped into action.



    Austria-Hungary also took advantage of the situation and to draw Bulgaria into its sphere of influence, on June 29th, 1913, began an assault on Bulgaria’s former allies thus initiating the Second Balkan War.



    Caught in the middle of all this were the Macedonian people who were now being mobilized by force to fight on all sides of the conflict. Macedonians drafted in the foreign armies were well aware that they had been deceived and knew very well that the war they were about to fight was about Macedonia’s permanent occupation and imminent division. They felt deep hatred towards the Serbs, Bulgarians and Greeks and deserted their armies at every opportunity.



    The Macedonian economy also suffered during this time, particularly in the rural regions where Macedonians were forced to provide for the armies and work digging trenches and fortifying their positions. Outside of those being mobilized by force by the Bulgarian army, Bulgaria also mobilized about 40,000 young Macedonians between the ages of 20 and 26 to create the Seres, Drama and Odrin Brigades. These Macedonians were forced to fight against their will and to the detriment of their own people.



    Bulgaria’s entry into the Second Balkan War began with King Ferdinand's order number 234 and directive number 22 issued on June 1st, 1913, which called for an urgent transfer of the Bulgarian army from the Thrace front to the western front in Macedonia.



    Bulgarian Supreme Command was planning to attack and defeat the Serbian army in two decisive strikes; first in the Morava River valley and then in Ovche Pole. The plan was to encircle the Serbian armies and force them to surrender.



    Assuming Austria-Hungary was going to protect it from Romania and the Ottomans by preventing them from joining the war against Bulgaria, Bulgarian Supreme Command left its borders with these countries unprotected.



    Meanwhile, on June 1st, 1913, Serbian and Greek Supreme Commands, in accordance with article 6 of their Military Convention, signed a Protocol to co-operate in case of a Bulgarian attack.



    On June 3rd, 1913 Greece signed a Treaty with Bulgaria defining the demarcation line between the Bulgarian and Greek armies. On June 6th, 1913 Greek Supreme Command issued an order to strategically deploy the Greek army on the Gulf of Orfano -Besik Lake -Lagadina Lake - hills north of Solun and the village Karasuli line. By June 13th, 1913 Greece had its forces regrouped and ordered to hold back the Bulgarians.



    The first battle of the Second Balkan war began in Bregalnitsa on June 30th, 1913 when the Bulgarians unexpectedly attacked the Serbians. Many Macedonians were drawn into the battle and fought on both sides. The Macedonian -Odrin Opolchenie units fought on the Bulgarian side, while the Macedonian Osogovo detachment fought on the Serbian side. As the battle entered its second day, the Serbians, in need of reinforcements, decided to mobilize 30,000 men, mostly from Macedonia, and dispatched them to the front without any training. By July 7th, 1913 more Serbian reinforcements began to arrive and as the Greek army began its advance towards the north end of the front in an effort to cut off Bulgarian retreat, the Bulgarian army disengaged and retreated.



    During the Bregalnitsa battle both Serbian and Bulgarian armies experienced mass desertions on the front lines. The deserters were Macedonians who not only knew each other from before but had come to the realization that the objective of this war was to divide Macedonia.



    All three armies showed no hesitation in using Macedonians to fight on their fronts, even if they had to fight each other, Macedonians against Macedonians. All three recruited young men from the Macedonian population and, with no training, forced them to fight on the front where many were killed.



    If destroying Macedonia’s future generations was not enough, all three belligerents also helped themselves to the Macedonian population’s food supplies threatening the civilian population, particularly the women and children, with starvation.



    By July 2nd, 1913 a second front had developed in Kukush Region and fighting between the Bulgarian and Greek armies began. But due to a strong barrage of artillery fire from the Greek side, the Bulgarians retreated without a fight disappointing the Macedonians enough to discard their weapons and walk away. Kukush is Gotse Delchev’s birthplace and the Bulgarians abandoned it without a fight. Their retreat was disgraceful. If Delchev was truly Bulgarian as they had claimed, then the Bulgarians would not have left Kukush without a fight.



    Over the next few days the Greek army continued to push the Bulgarians back until they reached Belasitsa where they ended their advance.



    When it became clear that the Bulgarians had lost to the Serbians and Greeks at Bregalnitsa and Kukush, the Romanians began to mobilize their armies. At that point the Romanian government informed the Bulgarian government that Romania’s armies were going to invade Bulgaria in order to recover southern Dobruja. Given the vast size of the Romanian force, Bulgaria decided to remain passive and on July 13th, 1913 allowed the Romanians to cross the Bulgarian border. The next day the Romanians crossed the Danube River and on July 20th, 1913 reached the Berkovitsa- Vratsa –Orhaniya line. By July 25th, 1913 the Romanians came to within 5 km of Sofia where they were stopped by request from Germany.



    In the meantime seeing that Bulgaria was losing to the Serbians and Greeks, the Ottomans also entered the fore. On July 15th, 1913 Ottoman forces crossed the Enos –Midia border and on July 23rd, 1913 entered Odrin. But due to Great Power intervention the Ottomans were stopped before crossing the Bulgarian border.



    After Romania and the Ottomans entered the Second Balkan War, Bulgaria had little choice but to capitulate and on July 30th, 1913 signed a truce and entered negotiations for the division of Macedonia.



    The Peace Conference in Bucharest began on July 30th, 1913 and was attended by six Great Power representatives. The Balkan delegations, except for the Bulgarian, were led by their Prime Ministers. Chairing the Conference was Prime Minister Titu Maioresku of Romania. The conference was organized in plenary and special sessions led by military delegations. Special commissions were also established to deal with special issues.



    The Conference took place in a tense atmosphere and was constantly interrupted because of the many parties involved. Military operations were ordered to cease on July 31st, 1913 and a preliminary truce was signed under the following conditions:



    1. Demarcation lines marked with white flags were to be drawn where the advance guards had reached on July 31st, 1913, precisely at noon.

    2. The truce was to begin on July 31st, 1913, at noon, and was to last for five days.

    3. Movement of the troops and provisions were not to be interrupted.

    4. In order to terminate hostilities, the “warring powers” were to inform each other of their current positions.

    5. Supreme commands of the “warring powers” were to immediately inform all their forces of the truce.

    6. Articles 40 and 41 of the war conventions on land were to be observed.



    When the Bucharest Conference began the various parties decided to leave Bulgaria out of the plenary sessions and separately discuss Bulgarian issues between Serbia, Romania, Greece and Montenegro. The first treaty to be signed was between Bulgaria and Romania.



    On August 5th, 1913 Jackson, the American representative at the Conference, read a note sent by his government which in part said that the US government was interested in putting provisions in the Treaty to protect the civil and religious rights of the population in the regions proposed to come under the sovereignty of these five states. Maioresku accepted the American proposal and some discussions took place in that regard but on Venizelos’s (Greek prime minister) suggestion this provision did not enter the Peace Treaty, thus depriving the Macedonian population of its rights.



    The most difficult problem the Conference faced was reaching an agreement about Macedonia’s division. In addition to the Greeks, Serbians and Bulgarians wanting things to go their way, there were also all kinds of proposals made by the Great Powers. While the Russians wanted to divide Macedonia one way, Austria-Hungary, to placate Bulgaria, wanted to divide it a different way.



    Russia suggested that the border between Serbia and Bulgaria be drawn between the Vardar and Struma rivers so that Shtip could be given to Serbia and Strumitsa and Kochani to Bulgaria. The junction between the Serbian-Greek-Bulgarian borders would be Gevgelija. The Greek-Bulgarian border would extend from Gevgelija down the Struma river valley to Drama, with Drama and Seres going to Greece. The Great Powers would then determine the border from Drama to the Aegean Sea.



    Austria-Hungary suggested that the Serbian-Bulgarian border be drawn along the Vardar River so that lands west of the river would be given to Serbia and lands east of the river would be given to Bulgaria. The Greek-Bulgarian border would be drawn so that the southern part of the Struma River and the coast from Kavala to Enos would be given to Bulgaria.



    The Serbian delegation disagreed and requested that the border be drawn from Gorna Dzumaja along the Struma River down past the Rupel Gorge.



    On August 6th, 1913 Bulgaria and Serbia came to an agreement that Stip and Kochani should be given to Serbia and Strumitsa and Radovish to Bulgaria. While their military representatives drew up the border on topographic maps, a commission of experts from Belgium, Switzerland and the Netherlands was put together to deal with specific problems.



    Drawing the Greek -Bulgarian border was a little more challenging mainly because Greece did not want to give Bulgaria access to the Aegean Sea. Greece insisted that the border be east of Belasitsa Mountain, north of Seres, Drama, Ksanthi up to Makri on the Aegean Sea. Under this scenario Bulgaria would acquire a 40 km long coast stretching from Makri to Enos. Dissatisfied Bulgaria requested of Maioresku, the Romanian Prime Minister, that it be given the Port of Kavala otherwise there would be no agreement. France and Britain however did not agree with Bulgaria’s request and Kavala was given to Greece.



    Bulgaria agreed to continue with the talks under Russian, Italian, and Austro-Hungarian assurances that they would soon revise the Treaty to include this Bulgarian request.



    On August 7th, 1913 Protocol number 9 was signed, drawing the Greek-Bulgarian border from the Serbian-Bulgarian border, over Belasitsa Mountain down the mouth of the Mesta River to the Aegean Sea. Then on August 10th, 1913 the Bucharest Conference adopted the text and the negotiations were over.



    With the signing of this treaty Macedonia’s fate was sealed. The territories Macedonia, Kosovo, Metohija, Vasojevitsi, Sandzhak, Thrace and northern Epirus, previously occupied by the Ottomans were expropriated by the three belligerent states, Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria.



    Serbia received roughly the Vardar Region of Macedonia, Kosovo, part of Metohija and part of Sandzhak, an area of 39,000 km2 inhabited by 1,290,000 people.



    Montenegro received Vasojevitsi, part of Sandzhak and part of Metohija. Its territory was increased by 7,000 km2 and its population by about 260,000 people.



    Greece was given northern Epirus, roughly the Aegean Region of Macedonia, part of Western Thrace, the Chalcidice Peninsula with Solun and a large number of Aegean Islands. Greece was given 51,300 km2 of land populated by 1,624,000 people.



    Bulgaria was given roughly the Pirin Region of Macedonia, greater Strumitsa and parts of eastern and western Thrace. Bulgaria was given 21,000 km2 of land inhabited by about 600,000 people. Bulgaria was also given access to the Aegean Sea which extended from the mouth of the Mesta River to the mouth of the Maritsa River and the Port of Dedeagatch.



    Romania received southern Dobruja, an area of 800 km2 populated by 303,000 people.



    On August 11th, 1913 just after the Treaty was signed, Austria-Hungary, Russia and Bulgaria requested revisions to the Treaty. But then a couple of days later, on August 14th, 1913, Russia changed its mind and the dreaded 1913 Treaty of Bucharest to this day remains incomplete and without the signatures of some Great Powers.



    No one, not even the Great Powers took any requests from the Macedonian people not even for the preservation of their identity.



    On March 1st, 1913 Georgi Konstantinovikj, Dimitrija Chupovski, Natse Dimov and Aleksandar Vezenkov, representatives of the Macedonian colony in St. Petersburg, signed a memorandum demanding independence for Macedonia and sent it to Edward Grey, Foreign Minister of Great Britain, as well as to the ambassadors of the Great Powers in London. Unfortunately the Great Powers were not interested and, in the absence of the Macedonian people, sanctioned Macedonia’s division.



    As has been shown in this and previous chapters, the Balkan Wars were not about liberation but about land grabs resulting in the occupation and division of Macedonia. During the two year Balkan Wars duration, Macedonia was partitioned three different times by three different divisions. The first, as agreed by the March 13th, 1912 Serbian-Bulgarian Treaty called for the Deve Bair–Ohrid line to be drawn. The second division took place after the First Balkan War when a border was proposed to coincide with the frontlines. The third division took place on August 10th, 1913 after the Treaty of Bucharest was signed.



    The only standards used to determine these borders, in all three cases, were force of arms, lies and deceit.



    Instead of liberating it, the 1913 Bucharest Treaty enslaved Macedonia and turned it into provinces of the belligerent Balkan states which wasted no time in forcefully denationalizing and assimilating the Macedonian population.
    "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
    GOTSE DELCEV

    Comment

    • George S.
      Senior Member
      • Aug 2009
      • 10116

      Not another big lie

      Not another BIG Greek Lie?



      Despite what some may think, there will never be a solution to the problems with Modern Greece because the mere existence of Macedonians and an independent Macedonian state negate and contradict the very foundations on which the Modern Greek state and Modern 'Greek' ethnicity were built. Modern Greece was created from an ethnically diverse population assimilated either willingly or by force under 'Neo-Hellenism', or the false belief that they are all 'directly' descended from the ancient Hellenes.

      Any recognition of a Macedonian ethnicity by Modern Greece would be de facto recognition of the Macedonians within the borders of the modern Greece state. This poses a threat to the Modern 'Greek' identity as established under 'Neo-Hellenism', as the Moderns 'Greeks' are ALL supposed to be 'directly descended' from the ancient Hellenes. If the Macedonians in Modern Greece aren't 'Greek' or 'directly' descended from the ancient Hellenes...then what other groups within Modern Greek society happen to be Non-Greek as well. These kinds of uncomfortable questions threaten to expose the policy of 'Neo-Hellenism' to be nothing more then a lie, to which Modern 'Greeks' fear would ultimately lead to the unraveling of the Modern Greek state. The Modern 'Greeks' therefore have two choices;

      1 - Abandon the policy of 'Neo-Hellenism' and rediscover their true ethnic origins, or...

      2 - Do everything in their power to erase the existence of a Macedonian ethnicity.

      It is therefore clear what choice the Modern 'Greeks' have made. Modern 'Greeks' will NEVER recognize the existence of a Macedonian ethnicity and will do everything in their power to negate and erase the existence of Macedonia and Macedonians.

      For this reason all diplomatic discussions with Modern Greece are pointless and must end NOW!!!



      By Napoleon
      "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
      GOTSE DELCEV

      Comment

      • George S.
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2009
        • 10116

        Precisely anything to come out is a compromise to trick macedonia to beleive will lead to entry to nato or eu.So the discussions should end asap.
        "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
        GOTSE DELCEV

        Comment

        • George S.
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2009
          • 10116

          Hey eddie i can't read your alexander thing how do you blow it upthe TEXT?.Also you should mention
          what you are discussing in the thread rather just having a link by itself.Another member tried to have a link with no explanation & admin went at them for doing it.
          I have looked at the rest briefly & it looks pretty interesting keep it up.
          Last edited by George S.; 01-09-2011, 02:10 AM. Reason: ed
          "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
          GOTSE DELCEV

          Comment

          • George S.
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2009
            • 10116

            Getting to know thy Greece

            Getting to know thy Greece



            By Risto Stefov

            [email protected]

            January 9, 2011



            One of the obstacles I was faced with in the past was convincing people that things are not right in Greece, especially when it came to human rights. Even the people who were willing to lend an ear found it difficult to believe what I had told them. How could one people be so cruel towards another in a peace loving, democratic country such as Greece? That is impossible! People in modern democratic countries don’t behave this way in this day and age? I am certain many felt that perhaps there was something wrong with me. Although no one, besides the Greeks themselves, ever told me that they didn’t believe me, I had the feeling that it was going to be a rough road to travel. Fortunately for me I didn’t have to do a lot of convincing. Greece did all that for me, first when it went out of its way to make life difficult for the Macedonians in the Republic of Macedonia by refusing to recognize them as Macedonians and their country as Macedonia and then by the way it got itself into its current economic crisis.



            Just a while ago one of my readers pointed me to an eye opening article which I found both informative and enlightening regarding “Greek behaviour” but from a different angle. The twenty page article, which I sent to all my readers, was a bit lengthy but captured the essence of “Greek” very well, the way my recent ancestors had it described. Written by Michael Lewis, the article entitled “Beware of Greeks Bearing Bonds” can still be found this link:

            As Greece’s debt threatens the rest of Europe and Wall Street, Michael Lewis wonders if the Greeks have wrecked their own ancient civilization.




            In short here are some of Michael Lewis’s highlights:



            “In addition to its roughly $400 billion (and growing) of outstanding government debt, the Greek number crunchers had just figured out that their government owed another $800 billion or more in pensions. Add it all up and you got about $1.2 trillion, or more than a quarter-million dollars for every working Greek.”



            “Our people went in and couldn’t believe what they found,” a senior I.M.F. official told me, not long after he’d returned from the I.M.F.’s first Greek mission. “The way they were keeping track of their finances—they knew how much they had agreed to spend, but no one was keeping track of what he had actually spent. It wasn’t even what you would call an emerging economy. It was a Third World country.”



            “As it turned out, what the Greeks wanted to do, once the lights went out and they were alone in the dark with a pile of borrowed money, was turn their government into a piñata stuffed with fantastic sums and give as many citizens as possible a whack at it.”





            “The average government job pays almost three times the average private-sector job. The national railroad has annual revenues of 100 million euros against an annual wage bill of 400 million, plus 300 million euros in other expenses. The average state railroad employee earns 65,000 euros a year.”



            “The Greek public-school system is the site of breathtaking inefficiency: one of the lowest-ranked systems in Europe, it nonetheless employs four times as many teachers per pupil as the highest-ranked, Finland’s.”



            “There are three government-owned defense companies: together they have billions of euros in debts, and mounting losses.”



            “The retirement age for Greek jobs classified as “arduous” is as early as 55 for men and 50 for women. As this is also the moment when the state begins to shovel out generous pensions, more than 600 Greek professions somehow managed to get themselves classified as arduous: hairdressers, radio announcers, waiters, musicians, and on and on and on.”



            “The Greek public health-care system spends far more on supplies than the European average—and it is not uncommon, several Greeks tell me, to see nurses and doctors leaving the job with their arms filled with paper towels and diapers and whatever else they can plunder from the supply closets.”



            “The Greek people never learned to pay their taxes .... because no one is ever punished.”



            “Where waste ends and theft begins almost doesn’t matter; the one masks and thus enables the other. It’s simply assumed, for instance, that anyone who is working for the government is meant to be bribed.”



            “People who go to public health clinics assume they will need to bribe doctors to actually take care of them. Government ministers who have spent their lives in public service emerge from office able to afford multi-million-dollar mansions and two or three country homes.”



            “The biggest problem the banks had was that they had lent roughly 30 billion euros to the Greek government—where it was stolen or squandered. In Greece the banks didn’t sink the country. The country sank the banks.”



            “In 2001, Greece entered the European Monetary Union, swapped the drachma for the euro, and acquired for its debt an implicit European (read German) guarantee. Greeks could now borrow long-term funds at roughly the same rate as Germans—not 18 percent but 5 percent. To remain in the euro zone, they were meant, in theory, to maintain budget deficits below 3 percent of G.D.P.; in practice, all they had to do was cook the books to show that they were hitting the targets. Here, in 2001, entered Goldman Sachs, which engaged in a series of apparently legal but nonetheless repellent deals designed to hide the Greek government’s true level of indebtedness. For these trades Goldman Sachs—which, in effect, handed Greece a $1 billion loan—carved out a reported $300 million in fees. The machine that enabled Greece to borrow and spend at will was analogous to the machine created to launder the credit of the American sub-prime borrower—and the role of the American investment banker in the machine was the same. The investment bankers also taught the Greek-government officials how to securitize future receipts from the national lottery, highway tolls, airport landing fees, and even funds granted to the country by the European Union. Any future stream of income that could be identified was sold for cash up front, and spent. As anyone with a brain must have known, the Greeks would be able to disguise their true financial state for only as long as (a) lenders assumed that a loan to Greece was as good as guaranteed by the European Union (read Germany), and (b) no one outside of Greece paid very much attention. Inside Greece there was no market for whistle-blowing, as basically everyone was in on the racket.”



            And there you have it. This not only verifies but validates the saying “Greek=Thief” as the Macedonian old timers back in Greek occupied Macedonian used to say!



            By the fact that some European countries were willing to lend other European countries money to build their economies and improve their peoples’ lives was a genuine gesture of goodwill on the part of the lending countries. But how did the recipient countries of this goodwill deal with this gesture? Just take a look at Greece, Europe’s favourite child!



            What is happening in Europe is no different from what happens to basically every person in this brave new world of ours. People borrow money from the banks to build a business, family and home knowing very well that they will have to pay it back and with interest. It is no different for countries than it is for individuals. The idea of the lending European countries was to lend the poorer countries some money for a period of say ten years where this money could be put to good use to improve the country’s ability to work in a market economy with a proper supporting structure. The idea was that now the poorer country would develop itself economically, not only to pay back the loan and interest but to be able to properly function and prosper from the ten year period forward. So where did Greece and the others go wrong?



            I guess the modern Euro-eggheads forgot to include the “Greek=Thief” variable into their lending formula when they handed Greece their taxpayers’ money. It seems our great grandfathers were wise to teach us “Greek=Thief” but have we really learned anything from them? If we have we would not be negotiating, with the “Greek=Thief”, our country’s name for which many of our ancestors fought and died to protect. Even after re-learning all this about the “Greek=Thief”, are we that naïve or is there another reason for these negotiations?



            Allow me to let you in on a couple of rumours. There are those who believe that the 1913 Treaty of Bucharest is about to expire in 2013 and as it was decided, when the Treaty was drafted under a secret clause, if any of the three parts of divided Macedonia becomes independent before 2013, all three parts will become independent and Macedonia will become united again. And there are those who believe that the United States had had enough of Greece, as it did of Yugoslavia, and will use the so-called “name dispute” to bring Greece down. It has been foretold (since the 1970’s by Henry Kissinger) that Greece will be cut to pieces. It’s a matter of when!



            This may be wishful thinking on the part of those who have faith in others to solve our problems but be it as it may, I thing Greece will come apart on its own because of its own cleverness!



            Now that we all think we know Greece a bit better, here is something more that we can learn:



            AJC Calls on Greek Orthodox Church to Condemn Priest’s Anti-Semitic Libels







            December 22, 2010 -- New York -- AJC is calling on the head of the Greek Orthodox Church in Greece, Archbishop Ieronymos II, as well as Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew, to condemn unequivocally the blatant anti-Semitic libels expressed by Metropolitan Seraphim of Piraeus, one of the church’s highest officials.



            "Metropolitan Seraphim's horrendous lies on Greek TV demonstrate that anti-Semitism is alive and well within the Greek Orthodox Church,” said Rabbi David Rosen, AJC's International Director of Inter-religious Affairs. “It is the responsibility of the church leadership to condemn and uproot anti-Semitism.”



            Metropolitan Seraphim’s comments came during an interview on the morning show of the largest Greek TV station.



            “Adolf Hitler was an instrument of world Zionism and was financed from the renowned Rothschild family with the sole purpose of convincing the Jews to leave the shores of Europe and go to Israel to establish the new Empire,” said Seraphim. He also charged that Jews such as "Rockefeller, Rothschild and Soros control the international banking system that controls globalization.”



            Rabbi Rosen said, “Jews worldwide had hoped that this kind of outrageous bigotry, which in the past was sustained and nurtured by the Christian world, had been consigned by the Church to the dustbin of history.”



            AJC, the premier global advocacy organization, has long maintained close relations with the Greek government and Jewish community, and is a pioneer worldwide in building inter-religious understanding.



            And this man is God’s representative on earth?



            And finally this:



            6 in 10 Greeks don't pay income taxes
            By Katy Byron, CNN
            December 31, 2010 1:30 p.m. EST



            Athens, Greece (CNN) -- More than 5 million Greeks did not pay income taxes for 2008, according to public documents released by the struggling nation's finance ministry.

            More than six in 10 taxpayers earn less than 12,000 euros per year and are not required to pay income taxes under the Greek tax system, the press office of the Greek Ministry of Finance said Thursday.

            However, there is wide speculation that many Greeks are not accurately reporting their income.


            To read more click on this link:



            http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/12 ... es/?hpt=T2

            "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
            GOTSE DELCEV

            Comment

            • Eddie_rebel
              Member
              • Nov 2009
              • 140

              Originally posted by George S. View Post
              Hey eddie i can't read your alexander thing how do you blow it upthe TEXT?.
              Hmmm I don't know. Maybe you don't have cyrilic support on your PC. I'll check with others. Thanks for the info.

              Also you should mention
              what you are discussing in the thread rather just having a link by itself.Another member tried to have a link with no explanation & admin went at them for doing it.
              I have looked at the rest briefly & it looks pretty interesting keep it up.
              Thanks

              This thread is for ebooks. The thread for patriotic art is full of pictures without much words, It is expected this to be full with links (of eBooks).

              The situation is the same on every forum I am in (Kajgana, Milenko...), don't know why this would be a problem here ???

              Comment

              • George S.
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2009
                • 10116

                Who are the Greeks - a Macedonian Perspective

                Who are the Greeks - a Macedonian Perspective



                By Risto Stefov

                [email protected]

                January 16, 2011



                Some of you have asked me to write about the Modern Greeks and what they really think of themselves and their neighbours; a subject which I have often touched on but have never fully delved into.



                I would have to say that, as a general rule, it is none of my business to gossip about people unless of course they give me reason to. Believe me the Greeks have given me plenty of reasons to not only to analyze them forwards and backwards without feeling guilty, but to talk about them as I see fit. In fact I would go as far as saying, “It is imperative to know thy Greeks as seen through the eyes of at least one Macedonian!”



                Like every other people in the world, typical Greeks fall into a number of categories; but the only categories of interest to me are those who interfere in the affairs of the Macedonian people. These Greeks fall into two distinct categories, the clueless and the ones leading the clueless.



                I used to think that every Greek out there knew the truth, especially about themselves, and “stood their ground” because of “self interest and self preservation”. But with time I have discovered that it is not always the case. Yes it is true that there are many Greeks who know their own true narrative but because of “self interest” have chosen to defend their mythical narrative; an alternate reality which puts them at an advantage over others, but which unfortunately comes into collision with the Macedonian narrative.



                In order for these Greeks to convince themselves that what they are doing is right they need to convince the rest of the Greeks to follow them in their quest. For example there are many Greeks today who know they are not Greeks of the type that are direct descendants from the ancient Greeks from 2,600 years ago, but are more like Greeks by circumstance who became Greeks by force when they were brought to Greece from Asia Minor or from the Caucasus to colonize Macedonia. Or they were Albanians or Vlachs gripped by the chokehold of 19th century nationalism which turned them into Greeks. In any case, it is irrelevant how these people became Greeks, but the fact that they are in an ideal position in Greek society today gives them ample reasons to defend their “assumed” position by defending the status quo i.e. that they are Greeks who descended from the ancient Greeks or more lately, they are Greeks who descended from the ancient Macedonians.



                And of course they have their followers, the clueless Greeks who believe everything they tell them. How does one recognize a clueless Greek? By the way they react to new information.



                Just recently I received the following “typical” e-mail from a Greek:





                WRITING THESE ARTICLES PROVES YOU ARE INFERIOR, YOU CAN'T COME UP WITH ANYTHING ELSE YOUR JUST DOWN A BARBARION WHO IS DAMN JEALOUS LOL‏



                TO RSTEFOV@GMAIL

                THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS THE TRUTH, BUT WHO EVER HATES THE GREEKS TRIES TO STEAL HISTORY OR DENIE THE TRUTH OR TRIES TO OFFEND THEM ALL ARE JUST PLAIN IGNORANT FOOLS. THE TRUTH SHALL BE REVEALED, IT CANNOT HIDE FOR LONG NO MATTER HOW ONE TRIES TO CHANGE THINGS AROUND.

                WE HAVE THE PROOF ALL OVER THE WORLD. ENVIOUS PEOPLE WILL TRY TO SHUT PEOPLE'S MOUTHS, BUT THE ROCKS TALK LOUDER IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF THIS, THEN YOUR PROVING YOU ARE A BARBARIAN WHO CANNOT READ!!!!! SO IF YOUR PEOPLE CANNOT READ AND UNDERSTAND BETWEEN THE LINES THEY PROVE THEY ARE JUST BABBARIANS WITHOUT US GREEKS ARGUING WITH THEM!!!!!

                THEY ARE SO JEALOUS, THEY HAVE TO MAKE UP THESE TYPE OF ARTICLES. THEY ARE THE LOWEST OF THE LOW THAT IS WHY THEY ENVY US. THEY KNOW THEY ARE INFERIOR


                Well, where do I begin?



                To some degree we are all drones and believe what we are taught or told by the authorities. Why else did we all believe at one point in time that the earth was flat? Yes it is true; the entire world at one point in time knew for a fact that the earth was flat! It knew the truth about the earth being flat just like the entire world today knows the truth about the Greeks being the descendants of the ancient Greeks!



                It was okay to make such claims when there was no evidence to show different. But what about after it had been discovered that the earth was not flat? How should people have reacted? Should they have continued to believe the earth was flat in spite of the evidence showing that it wasn’t?



                Similarly, when no one opposed the “Greek claim” that “Macedonians do not exist” it was believed to be true! More recently however it was proven that “Macedonians do exist”, I am a living example of that. No only do they exist all over the world but Macedonians today have their own country! So what is “the truth” in this case? Do Macedonians exist, as the evidence points out, or do they NOT exist as Greeks like to claim?



                How about examining the Greek claim that the “Modern Greeks are the descendents of the ancient Greeks”. What evidence have the Modern Greeks presented to prove this claim? More importantly, what evidence have the Greeks neglected in an attempt to prove this claim? When one examines all “the facts” it is easy to find the truth. It is a far fetched claim to insist that “the Modern Greeks are the descendents of the ancient Greeks” when evidence points to “the Modern Greeks being the descendents of the 19th century Albanians, Vlachs and of the 20th century Macedonians”.



                There is far more evidence that points to the modern Greeks being the descendents of the Albanians, Vlachs and Macedonians than there is that points to the Modern Greeks being the descendants of the ancient Greeks of 2,600 years ago. I am not saying this because I hate the Greeks and because I am jealous of them. I am saying this because evidence points in that direction!



                But again there are many, many clueless Greeks out there who insist that “this is all wrong” and only the enemies of the Greeks would make such absurd claims and that there is some sort of “information” out there that when it comes out will prove that things are different!



                Unfortunately, for the clueless Greeks, there is no “such”, “more” or “other” information out there that will justify the lies perpetrated by Greek authorities over the last 200 years. If anything does come out it will be more lies to cover up previous lies or to “disclaim” newly uncovered information. A good example of this is Greece’s stand on the Macedonian question claiming that “Macedonians do not exist”. When the Republic of Macedonia was about to emerge, all of a sudden all sorts of Macedonians were living in Greece! Even the imported Christian Turkish colonists settled in Greek occupied Macedonia in the 1920’s overnight became “Macedonians” and on top of that, they claimed to be the “descendents of the ancient Macedonians from 2,300 years ago! All this by magic no less! And after decades of saying that “Macedonians do not exist”, what reason did the Greeks have to “invent” these “new” Macedonians of the Greek kind? I will leave this one for you to figure out!



                If these clueless Greeks care to open their eyes they will find the truth, not in any books or in my articles but on the very land they today call Greece. Examine the people from generations back, before Greece became a country for the first time in 1829, and see what language they spoke, what customs and traditions they followed, etc. Look at the geographical names of the land, the villages, towns, cities, lakes, rivers, regions and see what they were called before Greece changed them. If all these people were Greeks, descendants from the ancient Greeks and all these lands were Greek then what reason did the Greek authorities to have to change them? What about the people living in Greece who today speak “Arvanitika”, “Vlahika” and “Makethonika”, are they also descendents of the ancient Greeks? How did they come about to speak those languages if all Greeks of all generations were Greek since 2,600 ago? Are those languages dialects of the ancient Greeks?



                I know some people will argue that language has little to do with descent but then again how did those languages appear in a region where they don’t belong, in a region, which according to Modern Greeks, has always been Greek, where the Greek language has always been spoken? If Modern Greeks are the descendents of the ancient Greeks then they must have always been Greeks and spoke the Greek language without interruption.



                Aside from that it is well known that throughout history, since Philip II’s time, the entire Balkans existed borderless until the 1800’s and were invaded and occupied by at least the Ancient Macedonians, the Romans, the Byzantines and the Ottomans for no less 2,300 years. What happened to the “purity” of the Greek race during that time?



                What about the number of times over the years that Greece, particularly the Peloponnesus, the heart of Greece, was settled by Slavs, Albanians, Vlachs, Latins and so on? What happened to these people? Were they “Hellenized”? And if they were, how does that make them “the descendents of the ancient Greeks”?



                And then we have the 20th century 1,000,000 Christian Turkish colonists who were brought to Greece from Asia Minor and the Caucasus, where they Greeks too, descendents from the ancient Greeks?



                I think there is a huge gap, the size of the Grand Canyon, between what the “truth” is and what the Greeks claim “the truth” to be. This is particularly true in the “Greek thinking” between their claim that “Macedonians do not exist” and their claim that they themselves are “the descendants from the ancient Greeks”.



                Instead of thinking that there is some sort of conspiracy on my part and on the part of people like myself, why not examine the evidence for yourselves and reach your own conclusion about what is “truth” and what is “myth”! If you really think that you are the “superior” people you claim to be, surely then you should be able to separate fact from fiction and discover the truth for yourselves! And please don’t forget to tell me what it is!
                "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                GOTSE DELCEV

                Comment

                • Frank
                  Banned
                  • Mar 2010
                  • 687

                  I usually glance over Risto's articles but this one is worth advertising.

                  Comment

                  • George S.
                    Senior Member
                    • Aug 2009
                    • 10116

                    Where did we lose our country? - Introduction

                    Where did we lose our country? - Introduction



                    By Risto Stefov

                    [email protected]

                    January 23, 2011





                    Klaudija, one of my readers wrote:



                    Dear Risto,



                    I don’t want to pull you away from your current writing, you have done a lot for the Macedonian cause, but I do want to suggest to you something more. The most painful segment of Macedonia’s history has been “the loss of our country and our sovereignty, a fate which we all have to live with to this day”. “Where did we go wrong?”



                    I also would like you and your readers to have a look at my blog and videos found at this link:







                    Regards, Klaudija

                    Dear Klaudija, I know I haven’t written much about this because it has been a struggle for me as well for several reasons. For starters, there has always been a Macedonia since ancient times, recreating it as a modern state should not have been a difficult task. So why did it not happen?



                    The Macedonian people were not only aware of the name Macedonia but have always had an historic connection to it. Macedonia and its past glory have always existed and will continue to exist in the narrative of the Macedonian people. Also, the Macedonian people, unlike any of the other people in the Balkans, were a nation with a large majority having a well developed Macedonian national consciousness before they had a country. Looking at this from another angle, there are many reasons why the Macedonian people should have had their own country a long time ago. Yet it did not happen! Why not? And you are right, as long as this subject remains a mystery, our history will be incomplete. And worse, as long as we are not aware of our past mistakes, we are bound to repeat them!



                    So as a nation of people where did we go wrong and what could we have done differently to change the outcome?



                    Before I get to the details of examining the historic crossroads that faced our ancestors in their quest to free themselves and to create their own country, I would like to make a few comments about where I see us standing today.



                    One of the mistakes we are making today is that, instead of having our own strategy, we seem to be reacting to “issues”, real or perceived, brought to us by others.



                    For example, we seem to be comfortable with the idea of calling some of our Macedonian territories a “Greek province” because others called it that. We know very well how Greece obtained those Macedonian territories but so far we have not made any effort to reveal that fact, either officially or publicly.



                    Instead of agreeing that these Macedonian territories are a “Greek province ‘also’ called Macedonia” because others call them that, we should have our own strategy and should be calling them officially and publicly “Greek occupied Macedonia” because no matter how we look at it, from our point of view, that is exactly what they are!



                    By not objecting to the fact that others, including Greece, recognize an illegitimate “Greek province ‘also’ called Macedonia” we give credence and support not only to Greece occupying these Macedonian territories but also the right of Greece to challenge the legitimacy of the Republic of Macedonia.



                    Let us take a few historic steps backwards and examine what “really” happened in the years following the dawn of the 20th century. Let us publicly and officially show the world “how and when Macedonia became Greek”.



                    Have we forgotten how Greece came to possess the so-called “Greek province ‘also’ called Macedonia”? Isn’t that the same Macedonian territory that was illegally invaded, occupied and partitioned by Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria during the two Balkan Wars of 1912, 1913? Isn’t that the 51% of Macedonia that was awarded to Greece by the Great Powers by the 1913 Treaty of Bucharest? Isn’t that the very same Macedonia that our Macedonian ancestors fought to liberate in 1903, only ten years before the Greeks, Serbians and Bulgarians brutally snatched it right out of our hands? Why have we not made these facts officially and publicly known?



                    The fact is that the so-called “Greek province ‘also’ called Macedonia” belongs to the Macedonian people and not to Greece. Greece’s legitimacy to the possession of these lands should have been challenged the moment Greece declared that “Macedonia was Greek” and when Greece officially and publicly, through every medium, announced to the world that the Republic of Macedonia had “territorial pretensions” against a Greek territory also called Macedonia. Right then and there Greece had the door wide open for things to be sorted out, with historical facts, as to whom Macedonia belongs! But instead of explaining to the world how “Macedonia became Greek”, in spite of the Ilinden 1903 Uprising, the Macedonian side decided to back down, allowing Greece to not only keep the Macedonian territories it illegally annexed in 1913 but gave Greece the go ahead to challenge the legitimacy of the Republic of Macedonia! The Macedonian government even made changes to the Macedonian constitution declaring that it does not have “territorial pretensions” towards its own peoples’ territories. And we the Macedonian people accepted all that without question and without a single note of protest! And today we wonder why Greece is interfering in our affairs and demanding that we change the God given name of our fatherland? Do we not see what is happening here?



                    Even if we did not have the power to do anything about reclaiming our Macedonian territories when Greece opened that door for us, we could have at least officially and publicly, for the record, told our side of the story. We owed it to those who fought, spilled their blood and died to free Macedonia so that we could have a better future! But we didn’t even do that!



                    Today many Macedonians stand against the so-called “name negotiations” between Macedonia and Greece with good reason. But the authorities in Skopje continue to knuckle down to Greek and external demands to continue to negotiate, risking not only what our ancestors fought for and lost in the past but what we already hold in our hands; the future of the entire Macedonian nation! This mistake can be easily remedied by the Macedonian side pulling away from these so-called “name negotiations”!



                    When Greeks made the claim that the “Modern Greeks are the descendents of the ancient Greeks” and at the same time made adamant claims that “Macedonians do not exist” they not only opened the door for debate but gave the Macedonian side the perfect opportunity to challenge the Greeks on both claims!



                    When the Greeks said “Macedonians do not exist” we should have reacted with a counter claim saying that “the Modern Greeks are not the descendents of the ancient Greeks” and here is why! Those who today call themselves “Greeks” did not exist as “Greeks” before the Greek state was artificially created by the Philhellenes in the early 1800’s. In fact it is more accurate to call these people “Albanians’, “Vlachs”, “Latins”, “Turks”, “Macedonians” and so on than to call them “Greeks, descendents of the ancient Greeks”.



                    Unlike the Macedonians who were a nation before they had a country, there was no “Greek nation” before there was a Greek state. In other words, the Greek nation was artificially constructed to fit the country that was created for it by the Philhellenes. The people that made up the so-called “Greek nation” were assimilated Albanians, Vlachs, Turks, Macedonians and others who happened to live in that region. Therefore it is more accurate to say that the “Modern Greeks” are the descendents of the 19th century Albanians, Vlachs, Turks and 20th century Macedonians than it is to say that they are the descendents of the ancient Greeks from 2,600 years ago!



                    Why haven’t we uncovered these “historical facts” with dates, names and places that prove that the majority of “Modern Greeks” today are not only the descendents of Albanians and Vlachs, but that their ancestors were not even indigenous to Greece. Why haven’t we shown the world that most of today’s Modern Greeks are the descendents of Albanian and Vlach immigrants who colonized the southern part of Greece between the 11th and 13th centuries AD. These are not myths but historical facts readily available to everyone. What has the Macedonian side done officially and publicly to prove that it is the “Greeks” who do not exist and are not who they claim to be: not the Macedonians? So far they have done nothing!



                    Even though it can easily be proven that the Modern Greeks of today are not the descendents of the ancient Greeks, no Macedonian in authority, to this day, has challenged that assertion. Even in view of the fact that Greeks have officially denied the existence of the Macedonians, for many decades now, the Macedonian side has done nothing to challenge the Greeks. Are we incapable or do we simply not care?



                    By denying our existence Greece has opened the doors and has given us a chance to challenge it once and for all about its own existence. Yet no Macedonian in authority has accepted that challenge! Why not?



                    I believe that all of our current problems stem from our inability to stand up to Greece and to all those who deny our name, our human rights and our right to exist!



                    It is our country and our identity that is at stake here and we cannot afford to enter into negotiations and accept deals that are harmful to us and to our future.



                    It should be obvious to everyone by now that no matter how much we “compromise”, it will never be enough to please Greece. Historically we were forced to compromise when Macedonia was invaded, occupied and partitioned against our wishes in 1912, 1913. We were forced to compromise when our new occupiers took our lands, exiled, or assimilated us and erased our identity and language. We were forced to compromise when our names were changed and we were given Greek names against our will. We were forced to compromise when colonists were settled on our lands against our wishes. We were given no choice when we were forced to accept all these compromises. But today we have a choice and our choice must be “no more compromises”.



                    How many people in the world do you think know of the many “compromises” Macedonians were forced to make in the past? I would bet that not many know! Why is that?



                    How many Macedonians do you think know of our past “compromises”, that we as a people were forced to make? Here too I would hazard to guess that not too many know! Why is that?



                    Many painful “compromises” have already been made and still our neighbours to the south are not “pleased”! So ask yourselves “how many more compromises must we make to satisfy the Greeks?”



                    Take it from me; the only thing that will satisfy the Greeks is to see us become extinct! If nothing but our extinction can satisfy the Greeks, why then are we “negotiating” with them? Why then are we giving them the time of day?



                    We are in the right, yet we act as if we are in the wrong! Why is that?



                    Perhaps it was not the right time to stand up to our enemies, as so many of you have reminded me in the past, but then when is the right time? And what will our enemies do if we truly stand up to them and officially and publicly tell our side of the story, the way we experienced it? Will they hate us any more? Can they do us any more harm than wish for our extinction? What more harm can they do to us? Start a war: like the one Milosevic waged in Yugoslavia? If that were possible Greece would have already done it!



                    Is it not obvious to everyone what the Greeks are doing? They want us to disappear from the face of the earth. That will solve many of their problems but they can no longer do it by force so they are attempting to do by bribes and blackmail. Why are we letting them? In fact why are we letting them lead us and run us around in circles? It is up to us to say “NO” to “negotiating” with them, especially about the name of our fatherland”! It is up to us to say “NO MORE COMPROMISES”! It is within our right to say “NO”!



                    In fact, it is our duty to take a step even further and bring these people to justice! The least we can do is officially and publicly let the world know what they have done to us. Let the world know of the past compromises they already forced us to make and demand an end to any further “compromises”!



                    To be continued.
                    "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                    GOTSE DELCEV

                    Comment

                    • Soldier of Macedon
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 13670

                      In fact, it is our duty to take a step even further and bring these people to justice! The least we can do is officially and publicly let the world know what they have done to us. Let the world know of the past compromises they already forced us to make and demand an end to any further “compromises”!
                      I would take it even an additional step further and say that the former compromises were unjust and illegal, and that they should be overturned at the soonest possible opportunity. The Macedonian state name, flag and constitution need to be reverted to their true forms, and then, let's talk as equals.
                      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                      Comment

                      • George S.
                        Senior Member
                        • Aug 2009
                        • 10116

                        Well said SOM perhaps that might be in the next installment but that just about sums it up
                        there are past injustices done & must be acknowledged & past wrongs need to be acknowleged not to mention restitution is needed.
                        "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                        GOTSE DELCEV

                        Comment

                        • Pelister
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 2742

                          Originally posted by Klaudija
                          Instead of agreeing that these Macedonian territories are a “Greek province ‘also’ called Macedonia” because others call them that, we should have our own strategy and should be calling them officially and publicly “Greek occupied Macedonia” because no matter how we look at it, from our point of view, that is exactly what they are!
                          Gruevski is giving the Greek lie all the international publicity it could ever hope for. I might add that Gruevski is the one meddling and interfering with our historical and political identity here, no one else. We have been badly exposed, and continue to be. There has not been a single occasion to date where the Macedonian government has taken a principled defence of our historical rights, in an official and public capacity. Gruevski's "silence" on a thousand lies and a thousand different issues has been defeaning. On that basis alone, the so called 'negotiations' must end immediately.

                          Great article.

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X