Cleopatra and the Macedonians of Egypt

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  • Soldier of Macedon
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 13674

    #31
    Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
    She was one of the few Macedonians in Egypt who could still speak Macedonian at the time.
    This is true, and confirmed by Plutarch.

    She spake unto few barbarous people by interpreter, but made them answer her self, or at the least the most part of them: as the Ethiopians, the Arabians, the Troglodytes, the Hebrews, the Syrians, the Medes, and the Parthians, and to many others also, whose languages she had learned. Whereas divers of her progenitors, the kings of Egypt, could scarce learn the Egyptian tongue only, and many of them forgot to speak the Macedonian. ("Life of Anthony", 27)
    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

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    • George S.
      Senior Member
      • Aug 2009
      • 10116

      #32
      If they ever make a movie that's all we need for the grks to say cleopatra was greek.Of course that would happen if the dopey director was oliver stone.
      "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
      GOTSE DELCEV

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      • lavce pelagonski
        Senior Member
        • Nov 2009
        • 1993

        #33
        the director is not Oliver stone and I havent read her book to know if she stuff up by saying Macedonian and then Greek in the next page.
        Стравот на Атина од овој Македонец одел до таму што го нарекле Страшниот Чакаларов гркоубиец и крвожеден комитаџија.

        Ако знам дека тука тече една капка грчка крв, јас сега би ја отсекол целата рака и би ја фрлил в море. Васил Чакаларов

        Comment

        • George S.
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2009
          • 10116

          #34
          lavce pelagonce i assumed it's going to be like alexander who had heaps of historical innaccuracies.One that he was greek.I was saying get a dopey director who doesn't know his history & you'll get anyhthing.
          Last edited by George S.; 11-14-2010, 12:43 AM. Reason: edit
          "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
          GOTSE DELCEV

          Comment

          • lavce pelagonski
            Senior Member
            • Nov 2009
            • 1993

            #35
            That is true GS lets hope it doesnt turn out that way
            Стравот на Атина од овој Македонец одел до таму што го нарекле Страшниот Чакаларов гркоубиец и крвожеден комитаџија.

            Ако знам дека тука тече една капка грчка крв, јас сега би ја отсекол целата рака и би ја фрлил в море. Васил Чакаларов

            Comment

            • George S.
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2009
              • 10116

              #36
              i fully agree with you lavce cheers.
              "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
              GOTSE DELCEV

              Comment

              • julie
                Senior Member
                • May 2009
                • 3869

                #37
                Any more on when or if this movie will be made?
                "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

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                • Volk
                  Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 894

                  #38
                  Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                  This is true, and confirmed by Plutarch.

                  She spake unto few barbarous people by interpreter, but made them answer her self, or at the least the most part of them: as the Ethiopians, the Arabians, the Troglodytes, the Hebrews, the Syrians, the Medes, and the Parthians, and to many others also, whose languages she had learned. Whereas divers of her progenitors, the kings of Egypt, could scarce learn the Egyptian tongue only, and many of them forgot to speak the Macedonian. ("Life of Anthony", 27)
                  thanks didn't know that, very interesting
                  Makedonija vo Srce

                  Comment

                  • Bratot
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 2855

                    #39
                    The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

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                    • The LION will ROAR
                      Senior Member
                      • Jan 2009
                      • 3231

                      #40
                      The propaganda and false information has already started on the Movie

                      "Angelina Jolie Goes Greek as Cleopatra but Some Don’t Like It"
                      Hollywood has failed tremendously in representing minorities in prominent roles through out the history of cinema. This may be why people of African descent are speaking out against the casting of Jolie in the legendary Cleopatra role which they believe should go to an actress of color. An African American magazine, Essence.com, featured an article […]


                      The Macedonians originates it, the Bulgarians imitate it and the Greeks exploit it!

                      Comment

                      • Agamoi Thytai
                        Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 198

                        #41
                        FYI,a small taste of what Stacy Schiff's book reads:

                        YouTube - Cleopatra - Greek Macedonian Decent - Ptolemaic Dynasty - Short
                        "What high honour do the Macedonians deserve, who throughout nearly their whole lives are ceaselessly engaged in a struggle with the barbarians for the safety of the Greeks?"
                        Polybius, Histories, 9.35

                        Comment

                        • The LION will ROAR
                          Senior Member
                          • Jan 2009
                          • 3231

                          #42
                          Agamoi Thytai what is Greek Macedonian..? isn't it a modern concept that Greeks love to use now days..?
                          Sorry, you are either Greek or Macedonian..
                          I wonder what History books she had studied..?
                          The Macedonians originates it, the Bulgarians imitate it and the Greeks exploit it!

                          Comment

                          • julie
                            Senior Member
                            • May 2009
                            • 3869

                            #43
                            Its the Greeks falsifying history and the west blindly accepting their bitches antics.
                            You are either Macedonian, or Greek, whatever that is

                            Another bullshit propoganda movie
                            Alexander the Great was Macedonian. His empire was made up of the Macedonian soldiers. The ptolemaic era was Macedonian.

                            Greeks lay claim to Macedonia when it suits them
                            Without Macedonia they are nothing
                            Aegean Macedonia is the most fertile land
                            If they did not have that they would starve, the south of Greece is rocky and not arable land

                            Am disappointed this movie is another bullshit el helleno funded propoganda dummy spit
                            "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

                            Comment

                            • George S.
                              Senior Member
                              • Aug 2009
                              • 10116

                              #44
                              more unhistorical greek crap.How can a person be macedonian greek or greek macedonian
                              it defy's logic.Who ever is making these silly innacurrate films good luck too them they are shit movies.
                              "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                              GOTSE DELCEV

                              Comment

                              • I of Macedon
                                Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 222

                                #45
                                Identity in Ancient Egypt

                                Hellenistic Egypt: monarchy, society, economy, culture
                                By Jean Bingen, Roger S. Bagnall
                                2007


                                Under Ptolemy II, in certain official Ptolemaic texts, like the collection of regulations called P. Revenue Laws or a Prostagma like C. Ord. Ptol. 21, it is prescribed that identity, when a full name was required...that one has to add to the name of a person the name of his father and that of his homeland...remained throughout the Ptolemaic age; the death penalty would punish any ‘change of homeland and names’. In Egypt hundreds of regulated identities allow us to draw up an extraordinary picture of immigration: someone is a son of so-and-so, Cretan or Polyrrhenian from Crete or Achaean or Athenian, Thracian...and in the most prestigious case, Macedonian. On the strict plan of personal identity, one is as a rule neither Greek, nor Egyptian, because these two mark a very wide social status. One would perhaps acquire one of these broader statuses because he gives his full identity. The Macedonian contingent was particularly important...and access to this prestigious group was certainly jealously protected. The socially preeminent place of the Macedonian cavalry katoikoi in the chora explains why Makedon would, quite exceptionally, survive as an individual and private marker during the first half of the first century AD. It is the only identity mark with a patris connotation that did not disappear with the Ptolemaic dynasty.

                                Let us abandon, then, the idea that the homeland for which Cleopatra proclaims her love could be Alexandria. This would make no sense. Obviously Cleopatra gives prominence in her new titulature to her Macedonian ancestry and her links to the Macedonian aristocracy...The queen implicitly alludes to her ancestor, the Macedonian Ptolemy, who first reigned from Alexandria over a vast empire, in which Egypt was not a homeland, but a strategic base and a land to be exploited economically. She calls attention to the relationship of blood, specifically of Macedonian blood, that united Ptolemies and Seleucids. The word even echoed the prestige of the Macedonian hero par excellence, Alexander the Great, the conqueror who opened Egypt to the Macedonians and who was buried in Alexandria but was also the founder of a broader more ephemeral Macedonian Empire.

                                15 Bearzot (1992) does not help us here....I would not follow Bearzot when she considers that the Macedonians, because of their small number, merged with Greeks. As we have just said, in Egypt, Makedon, ethnic, and Hellen, social qualification, are semantically and juridically situated on two different levels.

                                In Hellenistic Egypt, the most prestigious patris is that of Makedon, which for a while survived the elimination of ethnic designations in the reorganisation by the Roman conquerors of the official mean of expressing identity.


                                The children of Antony...To the youngest child, Ptolemy Philadelphos...This new Seleucid destiny of the young boy is symbolised by the Macedonian insignia of his power, the chlamys of purple, the diadem and the Macedonian head-dress kausia. A limestone head of the prince wears the kausia decorated with a small uraeus, signs of his Alexandrian and Macedonian royal ancestry.

                                In fact, in the documents Hellenes are not apposed to Macedonians or Thracians (such a scheme would be anachronistic in Ptolemaic Egypt). When ethnic is needed, Greeks are designated by a Greek local origin at the same level as the Thracian or Macedonian generic ethnics. The notion of ‘Greek register’ which I use above is only a shortcut of the modern historian, and has no ethnological character, but reflects only socio-political allegiance to the basileus and membership in the immigrant structures - as opposed to the socio-religious Egyptian system and its own religious feelings about the nature and the role of the king as pharaoh.
                                Last edited by I of Macedon; 02-03-2011, 08:55 AM.
                                No need to sit in the shade, because we stand under our own sun

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