The Death of Phillip II of Macedon

[Risto the Great]

Thanks buddy
Heres another one off the top of my head-

Philip, before his victory at Chaeronea sent a message to the Spartans asking for their compliance to his cause.
The Spartans, in their typical laconic fashion sent back a one word message- "No"

Philip responded that after he conquered the rest of Greece, he would raze Sparta to the ground if they didnt agree.
Again, the Spartans sent back a one word message- "IF"

The term 'laconic' comes from the abrupt, to the point manner in which the ancient Spartans spoke. They didnt waste words, lol.

This forum software will not let me respond with a short word but I will now ....

Excellent.

[Spartan]

My response....

Thanks

[Soldier of Macedon]

Spartan, it is clear that you have a healthy interest and passion for the history of the Spartans, your knowledge and information is well received here, I can assure you of that.

Earlier you wrote,

In this respect , Alexander is unrivaled in my opinion, except by maybe one man.

Who is the other guy? The land mass of Genghis Khan was larger than Alexander's I believe. Or are you talking about Leonida?

I will have to read into these Sparto-Macedonic battles, I think the writers during the early Roman period give the most information.

[Spartan]

Spartan, it is clear that you have a healthy interest and passion for the history of the Spartans, your knowledge and information is well received here, I can assure you of that.

Thanks SoM, I appreciate that

Who is the other guy? The land mass of Genghis Khan was larger than Alexander's I believe. Or are you talking about Leonida?

You were right on your first guess- Genghis Khan
Ive heard in terms of land mass, no empire even comes close.
As for Leonidas, his achievements obviously can not be compared to those of Alexander the Great. But I do credit him with the biggest 'upset' ever on the battlefield, balls of steel and some of the best one-liners Ive ever heard(sorry Risto )

I will have to read into these Sparto-Macedonic battles, I think the writers during the early Roman period give the most information.

The romans Im sure have good records on the few battles(might even be just one) fought between Macedonians and Spartans, but the Greek historians have good ones as well.
I mentioned this earlier but google the 'battle of Selasia'(hope I spelled it right), 1000 links will come up...
This is the battle in which Antigonus defeated the Spartans
It is after Alexander during Ptolemys time(he was actually helping the Spartans for a while)

[Soldier of Macedon]

When I said writers during the Roman period, I meant both Latin and Greek, as people like Plutarch, Arrian, etc wrote during the Roman period also.

I read about Sellasia, Spartans suffered heavy casualties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Sellasia

It seems as though the Spartans adopted the style of the Macedonian Phalanx for this battle....

Cleomenes had armed 2.000 Lacedaemonians in the Macedonian way

As in the days of Alexander and Phillip, the Macedonians would always rely on their northern brethren despite the assistance of any Greek 'allies'......

Antigonous alone had with him 10,000 pikemen, 3.000 peltasts and 300 horse from Macedonia as well as 1.000 Agrianes, 1.600 Illyrians, 1.000 Gaul and 3.000 unidentified mercenary foot and 300 horse. The allies provided him with further important contingents, the Achaeans with 3.000 foot and 300 horse, the Boeotians with 2.000 foot and 200 horse, the Acarnanians with 1.000 foot and 50 horse, the Hepirotes with 1.000 foot and 50 horse.

Ouch.........

According to Plutarch, out of 6.000 Spartans, only 2 survived, the others preferring honorable death to disgrace.

Sorry bout that

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparta

Neither Philip II nor his son Alexander the Great even attempted to conquer Sparta: it was too weak to be a major threat that needed to be eliminated, but Spartan martial skill was still such that any invasion would have risked potentially high losses. Even during her decline, Sparta never forgot its claims on being the "defender of Hellenism" and its Laconic wit. An anecdote has it that when Philip II sent a message to Sparta saying "If I enter Laconia, I will level Sparta to the ground," the Spartans responded with the single, terse reply: "If."

That is the quote you were talking about I believe.

Spartan political independence was put to an end when it was eventually forced into the Achaean League. In 146 BC Greece was conquered by the Roman general Lucius Mummius.

Although the Romans eventually conquered all, I think Plutarch's words are timely in the fact that initially, the Romans came not to fight against the Greeks, but for the Greeks, against the Macedonians.......

It was clear that the Greek world preferred Roman rule over that of the Macedonians.

[osiris]

so spartan you have dispelled with your precence on those forum the notion we 2 balkan people cannot be friends. thats the most pleasing thing i have encountered on the net for a long time.
out of respect for you i will refrain from using the word wannabbes any more when refferring to your people. pity there are not more like you.

[Soldier of Macedon]

We are honoured to have the Duke of Sparta as our guest....

[Soldier of Macedon]

Although the Romans eventually conquered all, I think Plutarch's words are timely in the fact that initially, the Romans came not to fight against the Greeks, but for the Greeks, against the Macedonians.......

It was clear that the Greek world preferred Roman rule over that of the Macedonians.

Check the below link:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=848

[osiris]

romans came to free greeks from macedonian rule by incorporating them into the roman empire and the greeks rejoiced and flocked to support the romans. you must admire the ancient greeks they always new who the were and who the macedonians were, pity the modern greeks dont take the cue form their ancient name sakes whose culture and identity they claim to respect and continue.surely those greeks would have known exactly who the macedonians of that time were , unlike the demoses and terranovas of this world, who dont know even know who they raelly are let alone who the ancient macedonians were.

[Spartan]

When I said writers during the
I read about Sellasia, Spartans suffered heavy casualties.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Sellasia

They did, as they always do when they lose.
A Spartan who returned from a battlefield as the loser, was forced to wear a patch on his sleeve that said 'trembler'. He would become an outcast to society, and he and his children would be forbidden to marry or procreate lest the 'trembler' gene be passed on.
Thus the saying that Spartan mothers would say to their sons as they handed them their shields before battle-

"Return with your shield, or on it"

It seems as though the Spartans adopted the style of the Macedonian Phalanx for this battle....

If you mean 'style' of phalanx, I fully agree.
The Macedonians had perfected it by this time.
The Spartans though, had been using a phalanx from long before even the Persian wars.

As in the days of Alexander and Phillip, the Macedonians would always rely on their northern brethren despite the assistance of any Greek 'allies'......

You see, what many do not realize is that the ancient Spartans had much in common with the ancient Macedonians in this regard. 90% of Spartas wars were fought against other Greeks! Any 'allies' they had was because they bullied them or out of fear of their reputation.A Spartan army didnt often go much farther north than the Isthmus at Corinth! The isthmus is a very narrow strip of land that connects the Pelloponesse to mainland Greece. The Spartans could bottle up that pass and no one would get in, and they even threatened to do this to the mainland Greeks(Athns ,Thebes etc) in the face of the Persian invasions.The mainland Greeks shit themselves, and did everything in their powern to appease the Lacadaemonians. They even made the Spartans 'supreme commanders of the Navy" to get them to join the defense(which they did in the end), a people who are a 2 day donkey ride to the mediteranean, lol.

According to Plutarch, out of 6.000 Spartans, only 2 survived, the others preferring honorable death to disgrace.
Ouch.........
Sorry bout that

Dont feel bad
A loser army marching home is a far worse fate to a Spartan
They did their duty
Except the 2 clowns

Although the Romans eventually conquered all, I think Plutarch's words are timely in the fact that initially, the Romans came not to fight against the Greeks, but for the Greeks, against the Macedonians.......

Agree
This is a case of classic Roman tactics.
Help one side win against another, then defeat the weakened 'winner'
This was employed more than once by the Romans over the course of building their empire.

It was clear that the Greek world preferred Roman rule over that of the Macedonians.

I dont think this point can be argued

so spartan you have dispelled with your precence on those forum the notion we 2 balkan people cannot be friends. thats the most pleasing thing i have encountered on the net for a long time.

I just say it how I see it Osiris
Im glad that we can have this type of friendly dialogue as well, it is a rarity on these types of forums.
You are a good man sir

out of respect for you i will refrain from using the word wannabbes any more when refferring to your people. pity there are not more like you.

My friend
Say it how you see it
I am just happy that you can see that we are not all 'wannabees'....
Especially down south

[Risto the Great]

Isn't this hilarious. Spartan, a person who is a man of the world and devoid of cultural prejudice is presenting the best face of Greeks. And the Greeks on the internet hate him.

[Spartan]

The one thing about Greeks Risto, is they hate each other more than they do anyone else, and thats how its always been....

[Soldier of Macedon]

A loser army marching home is a far worse fate to a Spartan
They did their duty
Except the 2 clowns

That bit there reminds of the film Gladiator, "some say they wont fight, some say they can't, they all say that, once they are out there", hehehehe.

You'd make a ruthless ruler, you must be Spartan, Δούκα της Σπάρτης

[Spartan]

No man
Im a nice guy
Just dont come home a loser, lol
Seriously though, there are 2 things that impress me the most about Alexander,
1. he never lost a battle!!
2. He fought in the front lines with his army, just like the Spartan kings
Very impressive things.

My uncle told me that Julius Caesar, on his 33 birthday cried and wept because he had reached the same age as when Alexander died, and had not accomplished one tenth of what AtG had by that age.

Have you ever heard this SoM?
If this story is true, and we can find the quote, it would make a great sig for one of you guys...

PS
Your Greek is pretty decent SoM, where did you learn it?

[Soldier of Macedon]

My uncle told me that Julius Caesar, on his 33 birthday cried and wept because he had reached the same age as when Alexander died, and had not accomplished one tenth of what AtG had by that age.

Have you ever heard this SoM?
If this story is true, and we can find the quote, it would make a great sig for one of you guys...

I have not heard about that, but it sounds very interesting, and probable, as the Romans admired many ancient figures of both Macedonian and Greek stock. If you do have information like the writer of the source or similar, please inform us.

I can probably speak more Greek than I can write, but I am not fluent in either. Picked up some words and phrases from friends over the years, and sometimes, especially when I wish to have the proper spelling, I would use an online translator or transliterator of some sort.