Tsar Samoil and the Archbishopric of Ohrid in Macedonia

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  • Bratot
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 2855

    Tsar Samoil and the Archbishopric of Ohrid in Macedonia

    Samuel tsar of Macedonia
    died Oct. 6, 1014, Prilep, Macedonia

    tsar of Western Bulgaria, or Macedonia, from 980; his realm was successor to the First Bulgarian empire.

    Ruling originally in Macedonia, Samuel then conquered independent Serbia and further extended his power into northern Bulgaria, Albania, and northern Greece. He established his capital at Ochrida (now Ohrid, Macedonia) and revived the Bulgarian patriarchate. In the 980s he defeated the Byzantine emperor Basil II Bulgaroctonus near Sofia, but from 997 the intermittent struggle with the Byzantines went against him. Finally, on July 29, 1014, Basil overwhelmed Samuel in the Battle of Belasitsa. At Basilís order, the Bulgarian prisoners (said to number 15,000) were blinded and returned to Samuel, who fainted from shock and soon died. He was succeeded by his son Gavril (murdered in 1015) and a nephew Ivan (killed in battle in 1018), after which Bulgaria became a Byzantine province.

    Samuel was the tsar (997–1014) of the first Bulgarian empire. Samuel began his effective rule in the 980s in what is now western Bulgaria and Macedonia. (See Researcher’s Note: Macedonia: a contested name.) He then conquered Serbia and further extended his power into northern Bulgaria, Albania, and




    Грешката е исправена!!!


    П.С. Check this out

    The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot
  • Risto the Great
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 15659

    #2
    Western Bulgaria?
    Bulgarian patriarchate?

    SoM ..... yoohoo ;-)
    Risto the Great
    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

    Comment

    • Soldier of Macedon
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 13675

      #3
      Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
      Western Bulgaria?
      Bulgarian patriarchate?

      SoM ..... yoohoo ;-)


      If by western Bulgaria they are referring to the former (and recently acquired) periphery territories of the First Bulgarian Empire, as the land and core territory of Samuel's Empire was in Macedonia, and not Bulgaria, which is located in upper Thrace bordering the Danube.

      Bulgarian Patriarchate? Lol. The Bulgarian Patriarchate was finished, over, no more. Samuel established the Ohrid Patriarchate, the Bulgarian label a mere remnant from the time of the Bulgarian Empire, which was also further reinforced by the establishment of the East Roman theme known as the 'Bulgaria Theme', which, oddly enough, included modern Macedonian and Serbian territory, but not modern (or medieval for that matter) Bulgarian territory.

      Such emphasis some people like to misleadingly place on these name games, while closing their eyes to some obvious points of truth such as the language, letters, people and geography of Samuel's state, which, were all the same as the people who live there today.
      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

      Comment

      • TerraNova
        Banned
        • Nov 2008
        • 473

        #4
        Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post


        If by western Bulgaria they are referring to the former (and recently acquired) periphery territories of the First Bulgarian Empire, as the land and core territory of Samuel's Empire was in Macedonia, and not Bulgaria, which is located in upper Thrace bordering the Danube.

        Bulgarian Patriarchate? Lol. The Bulgarian Patriarchate was finished, over, no more. Samuel established the Ohrid Patriarchate, the Bulgarian label a mere remnant from the time of the Bulgarian Empire, which was also further reinforced by the establishment of the East Roman theme known as the 'Bulgaria Theme', which, oddly enough, included modern Macedonian and Serbian territory, but not modern (or medieval for that matter) Bulgarian territory.

        Such emphasis some people like to misleadingly place on these name games, while closing their eyes to some obvious points of truth such as the language, letters, people and geography of Samuel's state, which, were all the same as the people who live there today.
        Britannica is rather clear.
        ALL the sources i m aware of ,call Samuel,his army,his people and his state Bulgarian.

        Comment

        • Daskalot
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 4345

          #5
          I see that you accept Britannica in that particular case, what about this one then on the ethnic composition of Greece;
          Macedonian Truth Organisation

          Comment

          • Soldier of Macedon
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 13675

            #6
            ALL the sources i m aware of ,call Samuel,his army,his people and his state Bulgarian.
            And the explanation of why is given above. Could you by any chance show where any state, army and people are collectively called "Hellenic" during the same period? I'm all ears.

            Nice link Daskale.

            Britannica is rather clear.
            Indeed. My, my, one wonders how many of today's modern Greeks are actually descended from native Greek-speaking populations in what constitutes modern Greece (today). Well, I guess the first Greek constitution answers most of that.
            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

            Comment

            • TerraNova
              Banned
              • Nov 2008
              • 473

              #7
              Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
              And the explanation of why is given above. Could you by any chance show where any state, army and people are collectively called "Hellenic" during the same period? I'm all ears.
              Even there are plenty examples of the use of the term Ellinas,instead of Romios (Ioannis Vatatzes,Choniatis,Anna Comnena,etc)
              i don't denounce the term Romios-it is used until now..meaning the same.
              Romios and Ellinas are the same.
              Do you think Bulgarian and Macedonian are the same too?


              Nice...but doesn't support your delusions

              Well, I guess the first Greek constitution answers most of that.
              I guess firstGreekConstitution needs a surgery to be removed from your head.
              Its like a tumor.

              Comment

              • Soldier of Macedon
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 13675

                #8
                Even there are plenty examples of the use of the term Ellinas,instead of Romios (Ioannis Vatatzes,Choniatis,Anna Comnena,etc)
                None of these people were commoners or even regular folk, they were educated and/or royalty. And their content is not at all substantial with regard to a collective and common 'Hellenic' identity shared by any sort of masses, of course, please exhibit the relevant texts if you think otherwise.
                i don't denounce the term Romios-it is used until now..meaning the same.
                Yes you do, and no it isn't.
                Romios and Ellinas are the same.
                Have you had your medicine? East Roman priests cursed the 'Hellenic' name as heresy and devil worshipping, the East Romans historically despised the names of 'Greek' and 'Hellene'. Do you really need me to show you some more examples of the differences between Romans and Hellenes or would you like to quit while you are still stumbling to the floor?
                Do you think Bulgarian and Macedonian are the same too?
                I think the relevance is equal of both the 'Roman' and 'Bulgarian' names where it concerns their use by the Macedonians during various stages in history. After the dust settles, the same people are there regardless of the names used due to belonging in a state or adherence to a religious group, the same people, the Macedonians.
                Nice...but doesn't support your delusions
                There is only one person that has delusions here mate, the same one who claims that Romans and Hellenes are the same.
                I guess firstGreekConstitution needs a surgery to be removed from your head.
                Its like a tumor.
                I think each time reference is made to it you receive pains in your head on par with a tumor, which prompts an impulsive reaction on par with a moron.
                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                Comment

                • Bratot
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 2855

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post


                  If by western Bulgaria they are referring to the former (and recently acquired) periphery territories of the First Bulgarian Empire, as the land and core territory of Samuel's Empire was in Macedonia, and not Bulgaria, which is located in upper Thrace bordering the Danube.

                  Bulgarian Patriarchate? Lol. The Bulgarian Patriarchate was finished, over, no more. Samuel established the Ohrid Patriarchate,
                  the Bulgarian label a mere remnant from the time of the Bulgarian Empire, which was also further reinforced by the establishment of the East Roman theme known as the 'Bulgaria Theme', which, oddly enough, included modern Macedonian and Serbian territory,
                  but not modern (or medieval for that matter) Bulgarian territory.

                  Such emphasis some people like to misleadingly place on these name games, while closing their eyes to some obvious points of truth such as the language, letters, people and geography of Samuel's state, which, were all the same as the people who live there today.


                  Exactly the point you mentioned, to understand the terms which were applied back than, we shouldn't lead ourself from the present point of view.

                  And I absolutelly agree with you about establishment od Ohrid Patriarchate by Samoul, anyway the creation of themes:






                  And this is much more earlier than Samoul's reign, we can find all kind of misleading conclusions if we are not aware of the meaning that those terms had back than.
                  The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

                  Comment

                  • TerraNova
                    Banned
                    • Nov 2008
                    • 473

                    #10
                    Why you think this region was called Theme of Bulgaria ?

                    Comment

                    • Svoliani
                      Banned
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 93

                      #11
                      'He defeated the Byzantine emperor Basil II Bulgaroctonus '

                      Just so you know Bulgaroctonus translates to Bulgar Slayer , hence the name Basil the Bulgar Slayer not Basil the Macedonian Slayer.

                      Quoting encyclopedias will get you nowhere and showing maps from 610AD will get you nowhere as well cause i see a place called Thessalonica, is this the city you call Solun today??

                      Comment

                      • makedonin
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 1668

                        #12
                        Originally posted by TerraNova View Post
                        Why you think this region was called Theme of Bulgaria ?
                        If theme Bulgaria was called so cause of the reason you think it was or you alude, than what about Theme Paistrion?

                        The Modern Bulgarians should be called Paistrians,Macedonians and Thracians, which they are not cause they inhabit the Theritories of these Themes.

                        The Area of Seres was Theme Strymon, where are this Strimonians of yours???
                        Where are those Nikoponians from Theme Nikopolis???

                        In Theme of Bulgaria also the Lerin i.e. Florina Region was included, which you now so proudly pronounce as pure Greek!

                        And the Theme Tessalonika was where till south Tessaly, where are this Tessalnonians you claim them now Greeks!

                        Byzantine Themes were that what they were, Administrative Regions which had nothing to do with Ethnic Groups.




                        Basil was called Macedonian, cause he was from Theme Macedonia, and he was Bulgaroknotos cause Samuil was ruling almost the whole of the Territory of Byzantine Theme Bulgaria.
                        To enquire after the impression behind an idea is the way to remove disputes concerning nature and reality.

                        Comment

                        • Daskalot
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 4345

                          #13
                          Bulgarian and Servian or Voulgaroi and Servi are most likely names of the classes which the people belonged to, the Servi were Serfs to the Romeoi(Romans, which were citizens), the Voulgaroi or Vulgars were the common people(ie peasants).
                          Macedonian Truth Organisation

                          Comment

                          • TerraNova
                            Banned
                            • Nov 2008
                            • 473

                            #14
                            Originally posted by makedonin View Post
                            If theme Bulgaria was called so cause of the reason you think it was or you alude, than what about Theme Paistrion?
                            Para+Istrion =Beside Istros(=Danube) river.
                            Its a Geographical term.

                            The Area of Seres was Theme Strymon, where are this Strimonians of yours???
                            Where are those Nikoponians from Theme Nikopolis???
                            Geographical terms too. Strymon(=Struma) river. Nicopolis town.


                            Byzantine Themes were that what they were, Administrative Regions which had nothing to do with Ethnic Groups.
                            I didnt claim anything like that.
                            But you stile don't have a reason ...an explanation.


                            Basil was called Macedonian, cause he was from Theme Macedonia, and he was Bulgaroknotos cause Samuil was ruling almost the whole of the Territory of Byzantine Theme Bulgaria.
                            1st Basil the Macedonian(i) was NOT Basil Bulgaroktonos.(ii).

                            2nd.Byzantine Theme of Bulgaria was created AFTER the conquest of Samuel's state.
                            It WASN'T there before.

                            Comment

                            • Soldier of Macedon
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 13675

                              #15
                              Para+Istrion =Beside Istros(=Danube) river.
                              Its a Geographical term.


                              Geographical terms too. Strymon(=Struma) river. Nicopolis town.
                              Bulgaria was also a geographical term at the time, just like Paraistrion.
                              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                              Comment

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