Rome saved Greece from the Macedonians!

[Stevce]

Hi guys, anyone know when the Romans would used Greek instead of Roman?
Also was it just the ruling elite who knew Greek or was it the common Roman also?
I have also read that St Paul wrote in Greek to the Romans.

[Philosopher]

Hi guys, anyone know when the Romans would used Greek instead of Roman?
Also was it just the ruling elite who knew Greek or was it the common Roman also?
I have also read that St Paul wrote in Greek to the Romans.

All of the New Testament was written in Koine Greek, including Paul's letter to the Romans. Greek was used in Rome by the learned and erudite class, though it is probable that at least some Greek was understood by the plebeian common class.

[Philosopher]

I was not taking a shot at your integrity SOM, nor was that my intention. Next time I will do my "homework" to avoid "wasting" your time. I appreciate the links you provided, although my original question was if you knew (dont worry, il search) if there was an original text somewhere in the internet (Not English).

The comment about Greek forums is not accurate, its a two way street and I have seen it applied as such. That being said, sometimes its not intentional either. Classic example is in the bible Matthew 19:24 where the Greek word kamelos (camel) is used instead of kamilos(rope). Which is wrong and still in use today.

" Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

when it should be...

" Again I tell you, it is easier for a rope to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Anyway, no hard feelings

You are no longer here, but this is disputed, yet you state it as fact. I do not find it implausible, but your evidence to buttress this argument, which you do not furnish, is lacking. This reading is lacking in all the early Greek manuscripts, it is based on the reading of some late non-Greek texts, and what you think the verse should state, instead of what it does state.

[Stevce]

I don't like the racist overtone, but it is interesting to note that it was originally the Macedonian people and Thracians who were considered to be barbarians and looked down upon no matter who the king was at the time or what mythical descent he claimed. By Livy's time this had changed dramatically.
According to Livy, the Macedonians at 25 BC were a superior nation, while the Greeks (“Graeci” does not mean Hellenes) were “an Asiatic tribe of the lowest human race, fit only to serve”.
– "… Macedones Thracesque et Illyrii erant, ferocissimae omnes gentes, hic Syri et Asiatici Graeci sunt, uilissima genera hominum et seruituti nata …"
("…the Macedonians, Thracians and Illyrians are strong and combative people, while the Syrians and the Asiatic Greeks are of the lowest human race, fit only to serve…")
---
Livy (Titus Livius Patavinus, 59 BC – AD 17) was a Roman historian who wrote a monumental history of Rome and the Roman people – “Ab Urbe Condita Libri” ("Books from the Foundation of the City"), covering the period from the earliest legends of Rome well before the traditional foundation in 753 BC through the reign of Augustus in Livy's own time.

[Carlin]

Livy, Rome and Italy - Penguin Classics.

Book IX, Page 268:

"He had been educated in the home of friends at Caere, and was consequently well informed about Etruscan literature and had a good knowledge of the Etruscan language. I have authority for believing that at that time Roman boys in general used to be grounded in Etruscan literature as they are in Greek today;..."

[tchaiku]

I don't like the racist overtone, but it is interesting to note that it was originally the Macedonian people and Thracians who were considered to be barbarians and looked down upon no matter who the king was at the time or what mythical descent he claimed. By Livy's time this had changed dramatically.
According to Livy, the Macedonians at 25 BC were a superior nation, while the Greeks (“Graeci” does not mean Hellenes) were “an Asiatic tribe of the lowest human race, fit only to serve”.
– "… Macedones Thracesque et Illyrii erant, ferocissimae omnes gentes, hic Syri et Asiatici Graeci sunt, uilissima genera hominum et seruituti nata …"
("…the Macedonians, Thracians and Illyrians are strong and combative people, while the Syrians and the Asiatic Greeks are of the lowest human race, fit only to serve…")
---
Livy (Titus Livius Patavinus, 59 BC – AD 17) was a Roman historian who wrote a monumental history of Rome and the Roman people – “Ab Urbe Condita Libri” ("Books from the Foundation of the City"), covering the period from the earliest legends of Rome well before the traditional foundation in 753 BC through the reign of Augustus in Livy's own time.

If Graeci meant an Asiatic race how does this contradict Macedonians being Hellenes?

[Karposh]

According to Livy, the Macedonians at 25 BC were a superior nation, while the Greeks (“Graeci” does not mean Hellenes) were “an Asiatic tribe of the lowest human race, fit only to serve”.

The term “Graeci” actually meant exactly what you’re suggesting it didn’t mean Stevce. Not pointing this out to try and embarrass you but to hopefully encourage you to double, even triple check your assertions before you make them so that we don’t have our enemies picking holes in those assertions. To the Romans, the term “Graeci” was the collective name of the Hellenes.
From Wikipedia, “The Graecians were an Ancient Greek tribe. Their name is the origin of the Latin (and English) name of the Greeks as a whole. It is likely that the Graecians were among the first to colonize Italy (I.e. Magna Graecia) in the 8th century BC, so that they were the first Greeks with whom the Latins came into contact, who consequently adopted the name of Graeci by synecdoche as the name of the Hellenes.”
My take on Livy’s quote that you provided is that he must have been referring to the Greeks who dwelled in Asia (as opposed to those of Europe), who had become quite accustomed to living in servitude of others, such as Persia for example.

If Graeci meant an Asiatic race how does this contradict Macedonians being Hellenes?

Tchaiku, to the Romans, Graeci = Hellenes ≠ Macedonians.

[Carlin]

Unsure where to share this, but here it is -

Legio V Macedonica: a Perspective Through the Years (43 BC – AD 637), Miguel Pablo Sancho Gómez

http://www.academia.edu/12440687/Legio_V_Macedonica_a_Perspective_Through_the_Years_43_BC_AD_637_

The Fifth Macedonian Legion was levied around 43 B.C. by consul Gaius Vibius Pansa Caetronianus and Gaius Octavius, the future emperor Augustus. The unit was originally part of the principate army, featuring a backbone of 28 legions.

Why and when these soldiers started to use (or receive) the nickname Macedonica? Who were those men, and where did they come from? Italians first, denizens from the provinces closer to the heart of the empire. Later they were provincials, seeding partly their own customs grown over the fertile soil of Roman culture.

The legion endured long enough to become full part of the Byzantine Army. Last remnants of the Macedonian Legion probably met a fateful and bitter end with the Arab onslaught of Egypt in 640.

This essay deals with a number of topics, from Everyday Life, Structure and Organization, to Sources and Controversy.

[Carlin]

URL:

https://www.persee.fr/doc/efr_0000-0000_1984_act_77_1_2516

Stobi - In the reign of Augustus the city grew in size and population. The city grew further in 69 BC once it became a municipium, at which time it began to produce coins printed with Municipium Stobensium. The citizens of Stobi enjoyed Ius Italicum and were citizens of Rome. Most belonged to the Roman tribes Aemila and Tromentina. During Roman times Stobi was the capital of the Roman province Macedonia Salutaris.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stobi#The_Roman_period

[Dove]

The comment about Greek forums is not accurate, its a two way street and I have seen it applied as such. That being said, sometimes its not intentional either. Classic example is in the bible Matthew 19:24 where the Greek word kamelos (camel) is used instead of kamilos(rope). Which is wrong and still in use today.

" Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

when it should be...

" Again I tell you, it is easier for a rope to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Anyway, no hard feelings

https://www.neverthirsty.org/bible-qa/qa-archives/question/should-the-word-camel-in-matthew-1924-be-thick-rope/

The Camel Was a Thick Rope View
Jesus used the Greek word kamelon for “camel.” In Matthew 19:24. Kamelon appears in the vast majority of ancient manuscripts, but the Greek word for “thick rope” is not kamilon. It is important to remember that the gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke were written in Greek and only portions are written in Aramaic. Matthew 19:24 was written in Greek and not in Aramaic. Therefore, the Aramaic word for “thick rope,” kamilon, does not apply.

However, some have been confused because kamilon does appear in a few of the late ancient Greek minuscule manuscripts (MSS) and in the Armenian version (and the Greorgian version of Mark).[1] These minuscule MSS are 579 and 1424. The number 579 refers to a minuscule in Paris dated in the 13th century.[2] The number 1424 refers to a minuscule in Maywood, Ill. dated in the 9th and 10th centuries.[3]

We need to ask why would only a few manuscripts contain kamilon? The answer is that most likely the typographical error occurred in one geographical area. It is important to note that the manuscripts from all of the other geographical areas use the word for camel, kamelon. In summary, only two minuscule manuscripts have kamilon and the best manuscripts have kamelon. Therefore,the weight of the evidence is that kamelon is the correct word that Jesus used.

[Risto the Great]

But a rich man can get through the eye of a needle with enough money.