People used for Byzantium the words «Romania» or «Armania»

[Carlin]

Repost: http://navi-patra.blogspot.ca/2011/0..._1098.html?m=1

Quote:
Οι Έλληνες Βλάχοι αρχικά ονομάζονται Ρωμαίοι, έπειτα δε Ρωμάνοι, που σώζεται με τη μορφή Αρμάνοι, όπως μέχρι σήμερα αυτοαποκαλούνται, και θυμίζει τον όρο 'Αρμανία, εύχρηστο από τούς Έλληνες των βυζαντινών χρόνων για την ονομασία τής χώρας τους, σύμφωνα με την αποκάλυψη τού Ρωσοαμερικανού βυζαντινολόγου Α. Vasiliev.

Translation:

The Helleno-Vlachs are initially called Romaioi, then Romanoi, which is preserved in the form of the Armanoi, as they call themselves today, and reminiscent of the term Armania, used by the "Hellenes" of Byzantine times for the name of their country, according to the revelation of the Russian Byzantinologist A. Vasiliev.

[Carlin]

(More references) URLs -

Internationales Jahrbuch für Geschichtsunterricht, Volumes 7-8

https://books.google.ca/books?id=TYsyAQAAIAAJ&q=Vasiliev+Armania+Grecs&dq=Vasiliev+Armania+Grecs&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y

Grundbegriffe der Geschichte: 50 Beiträge zum europäischen Geschichtsbild

https://books.google.ca/books?id=BJ2fAAAAMAAJ&q=Vasiliev+Armania+Grecs&dq=Vasiliev+Armania+Grecs&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y

" ... die Griechen nennen ihr Land Armania (Romania) ... "

Les prairies d'or, Volume 9, By Masʻūdī - Page 344

https://books.google.ca/books?id=J80dAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA344&dq=Armania+Grecs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjIndz9yaHUAhUI1oMKHQlSC4EQ6AEIJDAA#v=onepage&q=Armania%20Grecs&f=false

The source itself (French translation) - Le livre de l'avertissement et de la revision, By Masʻūdī - Page 239

https://books.google.ca/books?id=FF8yAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA239&dq=Armania+Grecs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjIndz9yaHUAhUI1oMKHQlSC4EQ6AEIazAJ#v=onepage&q=Armania%20Grecs&f=false

Bottom of page 239: "Les Grecs appellent leur pays Armania (Romania)"

[Amphipolis]

Post#16 is not a progress for this thread. This is another anonymous blogger who mentions what Vasiliev wrote. We're still waiting to see Vasiliev's claims, sources or arguments, or... anything actually.

Try to do that, and don't post twenty more links repeating Vasiliev's opinion.

Can they provide a single historical document where that term is used for Eastern Roman Empire?

Who knows? I can’t find anything in Greece. If not, we have just lost our time again.

[tchaiku]

Can they provide a single historical document where that term is used for Eastern Roman Empire?

[tchaiku]

Țara Românească or Rumânească was used for Romania:

https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C8%9Aara_Rom%C3%A2neasc%C4%83

[Carlin]

URL:

http://navi-patra.blogspot.ca/2011/01/blog-post_1098.html?m=1

Quote:
Οι Έλληνες Βλάχοι αρχικά ονομάζονται Ρωμαίοι, έπειτα δε Ρωμάνοι, που σώζεται με τη μορφή Αρμάνοι, όπως μέχρι σήμερα αυτοαποκαλούνται, και θυμίζει τον όρο 'Αρμανία, εύχρηστο από τούς Έλληνες των βυζαντινών χρόνων για την ονομασία τής χώρας τους, σύμφωνα με την αποκάλυψη τού Ρωσοαμερικανού βυζαντινολόγου Α. Vasiliev.

Translation:
The Helleno-Vlachs are initially called Romaioi, then Romanoi, which is preserved in the form of the Armanoi, as they call themselves today, and reminiscent of the term Armania, used by the Hellenes of Byzantine times for the name of their country, according to the revelation of the Russian Byzantinologist A. Vasiliev.

[Carlin]

"Στο εξής χωρίο διηγήσεως περί της Αγίας Σοφίας (18ος αιώνας), το όνομα Ρουμανία ίσως αναφέρεται στην Πελοπόννησο: "τας λοιπάς κολώνας (της Αγ. Σοφίας) έφεραν από τας Κυκλάδας νήσους και χώρας, από την Κύζικον, από την Τρωάδα, από την Κρήτην, από την Ρουμανίαν, από την Σάμον, από την Χίον, από την Κύπρον, από την Ρόδον και απλώς ειπείν από όλα τα νησιά" (A. Delette, Anecdota Atheniensia, τομ. 1, σ. 301)"

"In the following verse on St. Sophia (18th century), the name of Roumania may be mentioned in the Peloponnese: "the other columns (of St. Sophia) brought from the Cycladic islands and country, from Kyzikos, from Troad, from Crete, from Roumania, from Samos, from Chios, from Cyprus, from Rhodes, and simply from all the islands" (A. Delette, Anecdota Atheniensia, vol. 1, p. 301)

[Amphipolis]

You know better than A. A. Vasiliev and Dionysios Zakynthinos.

I certainly do, but I wouldn't hurry to blame Vasiliev as we haven't seen his famous phrase or source yet. Did you really believe that a Russian out of nowhere in 1905 would produce an information that is ABOUT Greece and is yet (for some reason) totally unknown in Greece?

[Carlin]

My objection was about the term Armania which was/is totally unknown here and was never used as far as I know or found in any document.

You know better than A. A. Vasiliev and Dionysios Zakynthinos.

[Amphipolis]

The encyclopedia that you linked writes:
Both "Byzantine Empire" and "Eastern Roman Empire" are historiographical terms created after the end of the realm; its citizens continued to refer to their empire as the Roman Empire (Greek: Βασιλεία τῶν Ῥωμαίων, tr. Basileia tôn Rhōmaiōn; Latin: Imperium Romanum),[2] or Romania (Ῥωμανία), and to themselves as "Romans"

My objection was about the term Armania which was/is totally unknown here and was never used as far as I know or found in any document.

[tchaiku]

Uh, no they didn’t. There are thousands or million documents per century and I’m not aware of any source suggesting something like that, regardless to which period you refer to between 4th-15th Century AD.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Empire#Nomenclature

===

The encyclopedia that you linked writes:


Both "Byzantine Empire" and "Eastern Roman Empire" are historiographical terms created after the end of the realm; its citizens continued to refer to their empire as the Roman Empire (Greek: Βασιλεία τῶν Ῥωμαίων, tr. Basileia tôn Rhōmaiōn; Latin: Imperium Romanum),[2] or Romania (Ῥωμανία), and to themselves as "Romans"

[Soldier of Macedon]

Can you remove both of those 2 threads? I am doing a better research to find a more reliable source.

Your other thread was deleted and this one was merged with an earlier one on the same topic created by Carlin.

[Carlin]

The title of this thread is interesting, and I have already contributed to this topic in several/different previous threads.

Namely:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8523

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6955

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8435&highlight=Ausones

In Summary:
- In the middle ages, "Greece" and/or the entirety of what was known as "Byzantium" was called ARMANIA / ROMANIA by its inhabitants. I have provided documented evidence for this.
- Speaking of Byzantium -- the following is my copy and paste:

An epigram in celebration of Porphyrius' role in overthrowing a usurper calls the Constantinopolitans Ausonians. The usage Ausonia = Byzantium became popular in the 12th century ("children of Ausonia" was used to describe contemporary Byzantines). Indeed, it appears certain from the sources that the "Byzantines" regularly called themselves Ausones, which was an ancient name for the original inhabitants of Italy. This was the standard "classicizing" name that the Byzantines used for themselves.

(As always, for the above, I can provide full sources; they are basically from the following authors: Elizabeth A. Fisher, Philip Rousseau, Anthony Kaldellis.)

- Last but not least I have provided ample evidence of many other little known historical and ethnographic facts which can be found throughout the forum threads.

PS: What caught my eye above is the claim that the entire Asia Minor (with some exceptions) spoke the same language as the "Thracians and Scythians". That's rather curious -- I saw many months ago (I forget the source unfortunately) that the shepherds (whatever language they spoke) of Asia Minor, in some pockets/areas of Asia Minor or modern Turkey, used to be called Romana until not long ago.

[tchaiku]

It doesn't look like those two pages are from the same book. With regard to the first page (for which you've provided a link), some of what is written makes sense, the rest of it no so much. Further, the author of this book seems to be some sort of Romanian crackpot theorist, as evidenced by the title of the book and some of the other things he has written which are cited in the below link and text (note: I don't know anything about the blog owner on the link, I am only referring to him because he cites more of the Romanian author's text):

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/ro...st-of-atlantis

Can you remove both of those 2 threads? I am doing a better research to find a more reliable source.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Read it all not just the underlines.

It doesn't look like those two pages are from the same book. With regard to the first page (for which you've provided a link), some of what is written makes sense, the rest of it no so much. Further, the author of this book seems to be some sort of Romanian crackpot theorist, as evidenced by the title of the book and some of the other things he has written which are cited in the below link and text (note: I don't know anything about the blog owner on the link, I am only referring to him because he cites more of the Romanian author's text):

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/romanian-author-claims-romania-is-the-purest-racial-and-linguistic-outpost-of-atlantis

The cradle of the white race was located in that bowl called Pontus (the Black Sea of today) and a great civilization existed before the Great Flood. Their language reached its highest peak before the flood and after that it degraded into the languages of today. Greek and Latin reached high points, but never got close to the height of the Atlantis people’s language. Romanian is closer than any other to the original language, because those people never left the land. I prove in this book that Latin descended from Romanian and not the other way around. Romanian is a highly deteriorated form of the original Pontic language (I call the White Race “Pontic” and their language as well), but one can still connect the words way back; I even managed to reach the very first words. Only with the Romanian language is that possible, and if I hadn’t known the language to the extent that I do, this book would never have been written.