The Ancient Macedonian Language

[TheNikoWhiteIch]

Interesting. Thank you Aphimpolis. I've also seen two other translations ("slope" and "licking"). Could be one of those words that had several meanings.

[TheNikoWhiteIch]

HM,

The name Athanasios comes from the Hellenic word 'athanatos' (immortal), which ultimately derives from 'thanatos' (death). This name became widespread as a result of Christianity, which is probably where later Macedonian versions appear as Atanas, Tanase, Nase, etc.

Although palatalization can assist in explaining some likely cognates, I think there is another characteristic that features as the main factor in examples such as 'negotino'. Over time, Macedonian seems to have developed a feature of 'letter re-arrangement'. For example, from Greek to Macedonian, there is Antigonea -> Negotino, and Megalo -> Golemo, within Macedonian dialects there is Kade -> Deka. The definitive article suffix may also result from this feature, if examples such as the following are accepted: To dete -> Deteto.

I think we see a similar situation with other words. For example:

Greek Κεφάλι (head) to Macedonian Ќелав(и) (bald, hairless).
Ancient Macedonian Γάρκαν (branch) to modern Macedonian Гранка (branch).
Ancient Macedonian Γαβαλά(ν) (head) to Russian Голова (head).

[TheNikoWhiteIch]

Latin words of ancient Macedonian origin

The Macedonian language also appears to have influenced Latin. I've tracked down a few words that appear to be of Macedonian origin that were probably loaned into Latin. These are:

"Grabatus" deriving from Κράββατος
"Ilex" deriving from Ιλάξ
"Virgam" deriving from Γάρκαν

**Page 475 for the book "Ethnography of Europe. 3d ed. 1841"

Additionally, there's the Macedonian word "Κάραξι (Karaxi)" attested in Hesychius' Glossary defined as "Σταυρώσω (Stauroso)" meaning "crucifixion, crucify, crossed." Perhaps the Latin "crucifixionis" derives from this Macedonian word? Or it could be that the Macedonian word derives from the Latin as it shows a "Macedonian-style pronunciation" similar to "Κάναδοι (Kanadoi)" instead of Greek "Γνάθοι (Gnathoi)" from the PIE *genu meaning 'jaw.' Have you guys seen any other Latin words of Macedonian origin?

[George S.]

Latin i is derived from utruskan.Look at words in latin they are similar to macedonian.
examples stari decisisis let the old decision stand.
Se stoi kaj trust ,everything stays in trust.There are other latin words. there are heaps of them,

[TheNikoWhiteIch]

I appreciate the input George, however I'm looking for citations based on authors that have a background in the topic. Citing lexicons is also helpful. I was aware that "grabatus" was loaned into Latin through "kravatos/krabbatos" from that Facebook page "Ancient Macedonian Language," then as I read through "Ethnography of Europe, 3rd ed. 1841" I uncovered that "ilex" and "virgam" were also Latin derivations from the Macedonian "ilax" and "garka(n)." My suspicion that the Latin "crucifixionis" derives from the Macedonian "karaxi" is based on just the similarities but that's just suspicion. Can anyone else track down some sources for more Latin words of Macedonian origin? Or also of Greek origin? That'd be greatly appreciated.

[Amphipolis]

My suspicion that the Latin "crucifixionis" derives from the Macedonian "karaxi" is based on just the similarities but that's just suspicion. Can anyone else track down some sources for more Latin words of Macedonian origin? Or also of Greek origin? That'd be greatly appreciated.

This is a little difficult. The most bizzare is that χαράξι (haraxi) doesn't sound like a verb in the tense and face of σταυρώσω (stavroso= I will crucify) while there's a note saying it is related to καράρα (karara=head).

If we leave this behind, stavros (=cross) is a synonym of χάραξ (harax) and was the original Greek meaning of the word, which didn't necessarily have the shape of cross (as we know it) but it was anything like peg, stake, pole (harax also means ruler, pointer). So, karaxi is obviously somehow related to harax.

[Amphipolis]

Regarding ίλαξ (ilax) Hesychius indeed says "same among Romeans and Macedonians". It is a plant that in English I find is called yew, ago, holly, holm oak. In Greek it is called prinos (ancient) or pournari (modern) but it is also called smilax.

[TheNikoWhiteIch]

This is a little difficult. The most bizzare is that χαράξι (haraxi) doesn't sound like a verb in the tense and face of σταυρώσω (stavroso= I will crucify) while there's a note saying it is related to καράρα (karara=head).

If we leave this behind, stavros (=cross) is a synonym of χάραξ (harax) and was the original Greek meaning of the word, which didn't necessarily have the shape of cross (as we know it) but it was anything like peg, stake, pole (harax also means ruler, pointer). So, karaxi is obviously somehow related to harax.

Alright, I see. Hard to say with this one then. I also don't see how it's related to καράρα (karara=head). The rest of them seem to check out from what I see. As for Κάραξι meaning "I will crucify," I see how it's related to Χάραξ(ι) (perhaps just the Macedonian pronunciation of "Haraxi"? It could've been Grk. originally but with a slightly different usage in Macedonian like Maced. "akontion" = spine vs. Grk. "akontion" = spear).

Edit -- If we take "Κάραξι" to mean "I will crucify," maybe we can connect it to the Slovenian(?) "Крижај" which I believe simply means "crucify"? I believe it is said that Slovenian has retain many archaic Slavic features and terms so perhaps this is one of them. I read about this on a forum I've forgotten about so I can't currently find the source. Can anyone verify this?

[TheNikoWhiteIch]

Heads Up!: Full Ancient Macedonian Dictionary

Just a quick heads up guys! The folks over at http://www.palaeolexicon.com/ are working on putting out a full dictionary of the Ancient Macedonian language. The dictionaries they have can be found by clicking on the Languages tab on their homepage then clicking on "Alphabetical Order". For now, I'd recommend checking out their Phrygian and Thracian dictionaries for those interested in those languages.

NOTICE! If the link I provided in this post leads you to a blocked page, just remove the the part "Blocked" from the address. Then hit enter and you should be able to go to the page.

[Nikolaj]

Awesome thanks for the heads up Niko

[TheNikoWhiteIch]

Awesome thanks for the heads up Niko

Any time! I also found that if you search the word "name" in the search bar, there are 133 results in Ancient Macedonian. I have a feeling that this dictionary will probably be full of toponyms and anthroponyms! Just on the first page alone there are really interesting names like:

Ϝόλγανος (Wolganos): River and Deity name, related to the Proto-Indo-European "*welg / wolg" meaning "moisture"; Slavic: "volga/vlaga"
Καρβερένθης (Karberenthes): A Thracian name from Macedonia
Βῖθυς (Bithus): A Thracian name from eastern Macedonia
Βουκεφάλας (Boukefalas): The name of the horse of Alexander III
Βέργα (Berga): A Thasian (as in the island, Thasos) colony near Serres
Ἀέροπες (Aeropes): The name of a Macedonian tribe
Ἄθως (Athos): The holy mountain Athos (Sveta Gora)
βαλακρός (Balakros): Anthroponym and Oronym (Belasica Mountain)
Βερενίκη (Berenike): Veronica
Βίλιππος (Bilippos): Philip
Γάμψηλοι (Gampsiloi): A toponym (Γάμψ: curved ηλοι: rivets)
Δύστρος (Dystros): The month of March
Εορδός (Eordos): A Macedonian tribe (Hesychius' Glossary)
Ζειρηνίς (Zeirenis): The Macedonian goddess of love traced to the Proto-Indo-European root "*segh -" meaning "to hold/captivate"
Ἠμαθία (Emathia): An early name for Macedonia related to the Homeric word "ἠμαθόεις (emathoeis)" meaning "sandy"

I look forward to the full dictionary! It should be very interesting.

[George S.]

nikowhitewitch why don't you just put up any links to those dictionaries.I tell you many greeks believe that the ancient Macedonians never wrote in Macedonian it was only in greek.Also the supposed fact the Macedonians had no Macedonian language it was all greek.I have allways said there was a ancient Macedonian.Its a bitter pill to swallow.

[TheNikoWhiteIch]

nikowhitewitch why don't you just put up any links to those dictionaries.

Because of the way that the website is set up, I cannot provide the actual link to the dictionaries. To access them, simply go to the website, click on the "languages" tab on the top then click on "alphabetical order" and then you can see all of the dictionaries that they have in alphabetical order.

[TheNikoWhiteIch]

nikowhitewitch I tell you many greeks believe that the ancient Macedonians never wrote in Macedonian it was only in greek.Also the supposed fact the Macedonians had no Macedonian language it was all greek.I have allways said there was a ancient Macedonian.Its a bitter pill to swallow.

Yes, I'm well aware of the opinion that most Greeks have. They can believe whatever they want. That's none of my concern. I am not here to get into petty arguments over opinions to convince people to believe otherwise. It is a waste of time. I am here simply to gain more information on Macedonian history.

[George S.]

That's it keep a clear mind.You'll see the truth warts and all.