1. History: Andrew Rossos: Macedonia and the Macedonians (2008)

[George S.]

S i think voltron holds multiple accounts.He tried to masquerade as one of the turk members.He had similar dns footprint.Perhaps he's come back one of the jokers around.I think they got nothing to do as one of their malaka sites is down..???They can only be tracked that's he best anyone can do.
Con as for the greeks despoud think the eu membership should straighten them out?But no,
i don't think no amount of humbling will change them they have been brainwashed for years.They are taught in schools to hate the skopijans that all the skopijans want is their land back.In other words keep on persecuting and destruction of what is macedonian.YOu got the ugliness of emerging new identity of what they call greek macedonian.WE all know that has no meaning to us but they claim that they have a greek macedonian people.AS far as i'm concerned the greeks will not change they are rotten to the core.You look at the modus operandi of their politicians and their claim to nationalism and greek nationalism is spiraling out of control being manipulated for maximum effect.This takes an immense toll on our macedonian indigenous people of the aegean,they are still persecuted by the greek state.

[Vangelovski]

I thought Voltron lasted longer...

Maybe he did - I think he was before I started keeping track...

[DraganOfStip]

As far as I know, he holds the record for longest serving fascist on the forum.

I thought Voltron lasted longer...

[Constellation]

I might add that the problem with the Greek state and the Greeks in general is the smug appearance about them, this heir of superiority of their people and their culture. But everyday, little by little, the lies of the Greek state are uncovered, and the lies and ignorance of Western academy for hundreds of years is also being unveiled. I long for the day when the Greeks and their supporters are humbled.

The Greek state is already under the judgement of God. Suicides, depression, poverty, bigotry, and racism define the modern Greek state, desperately clinging to ancient history and their islands for revenue.

One day this "Greek exceptionalism" theory will fall. One day, the world will learn who Greeks are, what their real history is, and their lies. The artificial nature of the modern Greek state will be razed.

[Constellation]

Actually, it was because they never dominated the whole area for the whole time. What they achieved, as it usually happens in History, was circumstantial. Leaving aside the controversy about antiquity, there's no historical reference that a separate Macedonian or Thracian language existed by the time Slavs arrived. I'm not sure what "Illyrian language" would refer to, either.

I see, Well, first, what little remains of the Macedonian language, which you deny was a separate language, is not believed to be Greek, not by all scholars at least. The only reason some think it was Greek is because they read their version of history into ancient history, and by that I mean, the glorification of Greeks, and that the ancient Macedonians could only have been Greek. Moreover, we do have historic records from the 1500s that speak of a Macedonian ethnicity and there is even a Macedonian lexicon, which is strange why Slavs who settled in the Balkans would decide to take up the ethnic name of the conquered people instead of remaining Slavs. Or maybe it was just a geographical title?

And second, ignoring the issue of politics, based on hard scientific evidence, which is the only accurate and credible evidence we have, today's Greeks in HLA are not part of the older Mediterranean family, and based on iGENEA are more Slavic than the people of Macedonia and Bulgaria. And according to all studies, the ethnic composition of Greeks is fairly similar to Macedonians, except for the Ethiopian HLA admixture.

So based on this hard evidence, I find it strange that the invading Slavs, who mixed fairly evenly in Macedonia, Bulgaria, and Greece, somehow only today's Greeks are pure Greeks, descendants of ancient Greeks, whereas the Slavic speaking populations of Macedonia and Bulgaria are Slavs, descendant of Slavic tribes.

This is a puerile understanding of ancient and modern history, and the Greeks and their supporters exemplify this more than anyone else.

Mr. Rossos appears to be naive in some respects, and ignorant in others. But his writings matter little, for they are his opinions, and regardless of whether the Macedonian government accepts them or not, also matters little, for we have scientific and historic evidence which contradicts the claims of the Greek state.

[Vangelovski]

The representative of the country that made homosexuality fashionable is gone. As far as I know, he holds the record for longest serving fascist on the forum. That's an achievement and he should be proud.

[Sweet Sixteen]

SS,

You obviously didn't get much thinking done during your week off. I asked you a question - give me your response or you're gone.

Can’t you wait a little? I’m blowing someone else right now.

[Vangelovski]

SS,

You obviously didn't get much thinking done during your week off. I asked you a question - give me your response or you're gone.

[Sweet Sixteen]

How is that the Slavic tribes, who by all accounts invaded the whole Balkans, including Greece and Crete, managed to establish their language virtually everywhere except Greece? What explains this? Was it because the Greek language and culture was so deeply established in the Mediterranean that the Slavs were assimilated and the languages of the Macedonians, Illyrians, Thracians were not?

Actually, it was because they never dominated the whole area for the whole time. What they achieved, as it usually happens in History, was circumstantial. Leaving aside the controversy about antiquity, there's no historical reference that a separate Macedonian or Thracian language existed by the time Slavs arrived. I'm not sure what "Illyrian language" would refer to, either.

How did Slavic, which by all accounts was a less developed language from a less developed culture take root over seemingly more advanced languages and cultures? Force?

That was a long process. Usually-before vanishing- advanced civilisations have a period of decay and shrinking. So, it’s not exactly force.

[Sweet Sixteen]

I read that stuff on Macedonia and the Macedonians ,he thinks he is some sort of an authority.He still mentions how were slavs and how we are called Fyrom.Also he mentions that the area we live in has historical significance but we have not much of a connect with the ancients.Well SS whats your reason for bringing it all up you don't need to remind us of the derogatory terminology used not only by the greeks but by the Bulgarians.They do deny our identity and our basic existence.Why is this Rossos not talking about basic human rights for all the Macedonians in the Aegean area.Not only this but how oppressed they are still in this age supposedly of reason the oppression and genocide of a nation of people still goes under the noses of the eu.Greece only cares for the name and not the problem it has in its borders.Your buddy rossos fails to admit or comprehend the real things of the situation.Why the fuck do you waste our time SS.??

Rossos is obviously NOT my buddy and you obviously did not read the book where your questions are answered (while other issues remain intentionally untouched).

[Sweet Sixteen]

Risto Stefov: History of the Macedonian People From Ancient times to the Present

Risto Stefov: History of the Macedonian People From Ancient times to the Present (2005)

http://www.pollitecon.com/html/ebooks/risto-stefov/History-of-the-Macedonian-People.pdf

This is the 2nd book (actually an e-book) that can become your official historiography (it doesn’t matter that is an amateurish effort). I don't see many comments on Rossos (who is a more serious case than Stefov) or recommendations of other books. I'm not sure I can find a third one.

[George S.]

Constellation hooray you are slowly getting it I may as well call you the resident expert on the slavs.You finally got it.Habip Hooray.

[Constellation]

precisely the Macedonians did not cease to exist.The Macedonians continued to exist.The speaking of Slavic that there ever was a Slavic language or a country.The so called Slavic people in Macedonia were actually Macedonian.

George, I agree, but Macedonian is part of a language family, and it is part of the Slavic language family. Slavic is not a language or an ethnicity or a culture, but a family of languages. Thus, Macedonian is a language, but it is part of a family of languages known as Slavic.

Orbini was an early Pan Slavicist who believed in Slavicism. I don't know share this view. Macedonian should be called Macedonia.

[George S.]

precisely the Macedonians did not cease to exist.The Macedonians continued to exist.The speaking of Slavic that there ever was a Slavic language or a country.The so called Slavic people in Macedonia were actually Macedonian.

[Constellation]

I would add another point. He seems to take the position that a Macedonian people/ethncity ceased to exist around the time of the Slavic migration and that a Macedonian ethnicity began to emerge or take shape in the 1800s or so.

This is a complete contradiction to the writings of Orbini who stated that at the time of writing (1603) there were Macedonians speaking Slavic.

This would have to mean there were people who identified as Macedonian ethnically. There is no record that Greeks or Greek tribes at this point in time of history who identified as Macedonian.