Macedonian Surnames

[Constellation]

In regard to Macedonian surnames, as all of you know, Macedonian surnames, like with most people, typically derive from the grandfather or great grandfather's first name.

The "ov" is added to make it a surname. This ov is common in Slavic surnames and it means "son of" or "descended of". The "ova" signifies the feminine version of the same.

Now in the beginning, Macedonian surnames ended in "ov", or "ev", which is more typical of the southern Balkans (ov, ovic, etc).

This all changed when the Macedonian government, fearing the "ov" surname was too similar to Bulgarian, decided to change the surnames of the Macedonian people from "ov" to "ovski".

Not everyone's name changed. Some till this day remain as "ov".

What are your thoughts on this?

Why would the Macedonian government change the Macedonian people's surnames to distance itself from Bulgaria?

There are many surnames that have similar endings shared by different ethnicities and yet with no change?

Why does the Macedonian government constantly feel the need to change its name to appease others?

[makedonche]

Different views from different Macedonians eminating from different parts of the divided Macedonia, from my perspective and knowledge handed down from past generations the surname of my family was taken from the first name of our Great Great Grandfather, one of the original founders of our village, whose name was Nikola, our surname then became Nikovci - notice the spelling - in Aegean Macedonia that was the standard our family and many others used, not "ski". It is also determined by the context of the use of the surname, in the old days you were referred to or referred yourself as "ovci" depending on who you drew your name from. Other influencing factors include the country people moved to and how it was interpreted, not least of all it also depends on what the Greek Government changed your family name to!

[Constellation]

Different views from different Macedonians eminating from different parts of the divided Macedonia, from my perspective and knowledge handed down from past generations the surname of my family was taken from the first name of our Great Great Grandfather, one of the original founders of our village, whose name was Nikola, our surname then became Nikovci - notice the spelling - in Aegean Macedonia that was the standard our family and many others used, not "ski". It is also determined by the context of the use of the surname, in the old days you were referred to or referred yourself as "ovci" depending on who you drew your name from. Other influencing factors include the country people moved to and how it was interpreted, not least of all it also depends on what the Greek Government changed your family name to!

Very important input.

Thank you.

[Constellation]

Can you imagine Mexicans or Spaniards changing their last names from "os" endings because it is perceived to be too similar to Greek? Or Spaniards and Italians with "o" endings.

We all know why "Greece" changed the surnames of many non-Greeks. We all know why many "Jews" from Poland and Russia changed their surnames from "Slavic" to "Hebrew".

But why the Macedonian government?

If anybody should have changed their surnames, it should have been Bulgaria (not that it should anyway).

[Constellation]

I would add one other thing.

If the Macedonian government wanted to distance itself from Bulgaria and its other neighbors, why in the world would they use "ski", which now makes it appear similar to Polish and Russian names?

Why not invent something new? Why not make your surnames entirely unique. Why not "ovia". Like Macedonia.

Oh, yeah, I forgot. The Macedonian government at the time saw themselves as the seed of Slavs.

What is with this government, this disgraceful government that keeps destroying Macedonia?

[Toska]

the whole history of the name changing came after we become one of the yugo republics, most people gained serbian names when yugoslavia seeded Macedonia, when Macedonia become its own entity under yugoslavia the bulgarians saw a chance to try and relive the San Stefano Treaty by taking Macedonia, Bulgarians always infilitrated Macedonian ranks and would convert the blind and weak in the last 80 years prior to WW2 as VMRO had a huge problem with Bulgarians Spies sending infortmation back to Sofia, Macedonia then changed all the Serbianized back to Original name with the SKI suffix, which is not new it was always used but not as common as the OV, so to deter Bulgarians from infilitrating they tried to distinguish themselves as much as they could cause the Bulgarians couldnt be trusted.

[Big Bad Sven]

I have a funny feeling about the OP and what his motives are on this forum, but i will let others try work him out

Btw, this may blow your mind away but people in macedonia had surnames ending with 'ski' well before Tito arrived. There are many famous macedonians prior to Tito that had 'ski' at the end of their name.

Also note: there were macedonians in greece and albania that had the 'ski' ending as well. How did Tito change their surnames? Very impressive feat when you consider albania was a isolated country.

I pose you a question as well fine sir. Why do bulgarians from the past (say 100-200 years ago) have the ski ending surnames and why do a lot of bulgarians have the ski ending surnames as well today?

[Constellation]

I have a funny feeling about the OP and what his motives are on this forum, but i will let others try work him out

Btw, this may blow your mind away but people in macedonia had surnames ending with 'ski' well before Tito arrived. There are many famous macedonians prior to Tito that had 'ski' at the end of their name.

Also note: there were macedonians in greece and albania that had the 'ski' ending as well. How did Tito change their surnames? Very impressive feat when you consider albania was a isolated country.

I pose you a question as well fine sir. Why do bulgarians from the past (say 100-200 years ago) have the ski ending surnames and why do a lot of bulgarians have the ski ending surnames as well today?

Oh, I see, so there is a silent conspiracy on my part? For the record, I never mentioned Tito's name. Nor am I secretly arguing that Macedonians are really Bulgarians and that there was a secret agenda by Tito to create a Macedonian ethnicity by changing the surnames of Macedonians.

My understanding is, and even in my family's history, "ov" was the original suffix in much of Macedonia, and ski was later added to surnames that ended in "ov".

If you notice, many Eastern Macedonian names, bordering Bulgaria, till this day remain "ov". Some Macedonian surnames even in Skopje still remain as "ov".

Now what is the argument in favor of "ovski".

If "ov" means "son of". what does "ovski" mean? What is its purpose? It means "originating or coming from the son of".

If indeed Macedonian names have always ended in ski, as you claim, then I stand corrected. My understanding was that it was a later addition due to the Bulgarian issue.

Self-determination at that stage of history was not easy, and everyone wanted a piece of the Macedonian pie. So Hellenized, Serbanized, and Bulgarianized surnames of Macedonians was not uncommon.

[Constellation]

In starting this thread, I was under the impression that southern Balkan names did not end in "ski". We know Polish names end in ski. Russians in sky. Serbians, Croatians, etc do not.

I understand the usage of "ski", similar to "ov", that they are suffixes designed to indicate descent/origin.

So it appears that the following is true:

1. Macedonian names have ended in ski for some time.
2. Macedonian surnames historically have been different depending on the region and have been changed for a number of reasons, including the issue of Bulgaria.
3. Bulgarian surnames also end, at times, in ski.

It is still curious why Macedonian and Bulgarian surnames end in ski, when Balkan nations more up north do not at all use ski.

Some do not even use "ov".

This is why these topics are started people.

Education.

Anyone have other useful information to contribute?

[Tomche Makedonche]

Well my surname does not end with “ov” or “ski” or anything resembling eastern European characteristics, rather would be quite commonly understood to be of English background. Furthermore, if I was to continue along the lines of the general scope of these recent topics, I also personally consider myself Australian, and my primary language spoken is English, so I guess I can only deduce based on these characteristics that I must in fact be English (quite fond of Newcastle upon Tyne I might add), but wait there’s more, since we’ve established that I am an Englishman, if I understand correctly, this would actually make me ethnically German?…

well… Das ist Vunderbar!!! Its not every day my people win the World Cup!, and to think all this time I’ve been wallowing in sorrow because Australia crapped out in all three of their matches, when all along I should in fact be celebrating! Where’s my schnitzel and sauerkraut, Deutschland!, Deutschland!, Deutschland!.. weeeee are the champions, my friend, and weeee’ll keep on fighting to the end!, Auf Wiedersehen losers

[Gocka]

You are assuming that ski was never used by any Macedonians before many others changed their names. The truth is that Macedonian names have always ended in a variety of endings. Ev Ov and Ski are all common and were always common. Polish names don't end in ski, rather in WSKI, and the SKY is mostly associated with Russian Jews.

In Macedonian Ski Ov and Ov would all be considered grammatically correct. On top of those you have a slew of names that have none of those endings or rather have no ending at all. I think you have been misinformed on this one.

Oh, I see, so there is a silent conspiracy on my part? For the record, I never mentioned Tito's name. Nor am I secretly arguing that Macedonians are really Bulgarians and that there was a secret agenda by Tito to create a Macedonian ethnicity by changing the surnames of Macedonians.
My understanding is, and even in my family's history, "ov" was the original suffix in much of Macedonia, and ski was later added to surnames that ended in "ov".

If you notice, many Eastern Macedonian names, bordering Bulgaria, till this day remain "ov". Some Macedonian surnames even in Skopje still remain as "ov".

Now what is the argument in favor of "ovski".

If "ov" means "son of". what does "ovski" mean? What is its purpose? It means "originating or coming from the son of".

If indeed Macedonian names have always ended in ski, as you claim, then I stand corrected. My understanding was that it was a later addition due to the Bulgarian issue.

Self-determination at that stage of history was not easy, and everyone wanted a piece of the Macedonian pie. So Hellenized, Serbanized, and Bulgarianized surnames of Macedonians was not uncommon.

[Risto the Great]

My maternal line was "ski" (as evidenced on my Great Grandmother's GREEK passport, amongst other places) and my paternal line was anything from "o" to "ov" to "ovci". I opted for "o" when I removed my Greek imposed name. I should add both sides of my family are from Aegean Macedonia. Which adds to my natural beauty.

Constellation, Tito did not enter Greece and change my maternal line surname.

[Bill77]

My understanding is, and even in my family's history, "ov" was the original suffix in much of Macedonia, and ski was later added to surnames

not quite correct. Initially, we who originated from the Serbian occupied part of Macedonia were forced to add "ich" to our surnames. It was later we were allowed to get rid of our Serb slave sir names and go back to "OV" "EV" "SKI"

Now what is the argument in favor of "ovski".

If "ov" means "son of". what does "ovski" mean? What is its purpose? It means "originating or coming from the son of".

first of all the suffix is "ski" minus the "OV" in it. There are many example where the "OV" isn't included in the Suffix.

Re what is the purpose of "ski".......well it might help us by looking at why we describe other things to determine where something originates from using "ski".
Such as in Language. We say MakedonSKI, AlbanSKI, SrbSKI, GermanSKI, TurSKI etc etc when it comes to determine what origin or group that specific language comes from.

Or MashKi, zenSKI to determine a sex

I suppose the "ski" is another way of saying "OV" ie from that particular group.

If indeed Macedonian names have always ended in ski, as you claim, then I stand corrected. My understanding was that it was a later addition due to the Bulgarian issue.

It wasn't common, but used nonetheless. I'll give you one example Jane Sandanski who was pre Tito or pre Serbia's concern with the Bulgarian issue.

Here's where you are going to tell me he was Bulgarian

[Big Bad Sven]

Oh, I see, so there is a silent conspiracy on my part? For the record, I never mentioned Tito's name. Nor am I secretly arguing that Macedonians are really Bulgarians and that there was a secret agenda by Tito to create a Macedonian ethnicity by changing the surnames of Macedonians.

My understanding is, and even in my family's history, "ov" was the original suffix in much of Macedonia, and ski was later added to surnames that ended in "ov".

If you notice, many Eastern Macedonian names, bordering Bulgaria, till this day remain "ov". Some Macedonian surnames even in Skopje still remain as "ov".

Now what is the argument in favor of "ovski".

If "ov" means "son of". what does "ovski" mean? What is its purpose? It means "originating or coming from the son of".

If indeed Macedonian names have always ended in ski, as you claim, then I stand corrected. My understanding was that it was a later addition due to the Bulgarian issue.

Self-determination at that stage of history was not easy, and everyone wanted a piece of the Macedonian pie. So Hellenized, Serbanized, and Bulgarianized surnames of Macedonians was not uncommon.

Like i said there were macedonians before Tito that had the 'ski' ending in their surnames.
Like i said there were macedonians from albania and Greece that had the 'ski' ending in their surname - how do you propose the magical and all powerfull TITO linger into those anti-yugoslav (and also anti-bulgarian) countries and change their surnames?

You never got back to me on bulgarians with the 'ski' ending surnames as well. I am having bit of a guestimate but i think almost 1/5 of bulgarians have the ski ending surnames today. Why do they also have the mysterious ski ending as well?

Btw its not just bulgarians and macedonians who have the ski ending surnames. In the past many croat, serbs and montenigrins had ski as well. Think the montenegrin actor Lazar Ristovski

Btw, what about macedonians who have the 'ski' in their surnam but dont have the typical 'bulgarian' OVski or EVski? The macedonian surnames with no letter V in them?

[Constellation]

People, people. people.

This is not a thread about a Tito conspiracy. I already acknowledged I misunderstood the issue. This is why this thread was open. Education.

I assumed incorrectly that ski was not native to the southern Balkans and that the Macedonian government began to change surnames (which is true to some extent) to ski. It is true in my family, where the original "ov" later become "ovski".

I did not know Macedonians in Greece had ovci or ovski.
I did not know Bulgarians had and have this either.
Or Serbs.

And yes, I am aware some names in "ski" and not "ovski", like "Donski".

What appears to be certain is that in the Balkans, Macedonian surnames most commonly have "ovski" or "ski", than the other Balkan nation states.

I understand the meaning of the suffix, but was ignorant as to its broad application and history.