First printed Macedonian alphabet by Gjorgji Pulevski

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  • Vangelovski
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 8533

    #16
    Originally posted by Niko777 View Post
    I meant taking out the letter "Џ" and spelling it out the original way which was "ДЖ"
    That's a different sound though...isn't it?
    If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

    The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

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    • Niko777
      Senior Member
      • Oct 2010
      • 1895

      #17
      Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
      The letter Я is a Russian variation. The original letter was Ѧ, but IA could be used (instead of JA) if the J was dropped from today's alphabet.
      Exactly we don't need too many vowels like "Я", or "Ю". We can spell it out using two existing letter.

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      • Niko777
        Senior Member
        • Oct 2010
        • 1895

        #18
        Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
        That's a different sound though...isn't it?
        Nope, before "Џ" was introduced, the same sound was spelled using "ДЖ" beside each other.

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        • Niko777
          Senior Member
          • Oct 2010
          • 1895

          #19
          This is the ideal alphabet in my opinion (Misirkov's letters in red):

          А Б В Г Д Ѓ Е Ж З Ѕ И I К Л Љ М Н Њ О П Р С Т Ќ У Ф Х Ц Ч Ш Ъ

          I don't mind keeping Љ and Њ only because they both look exactly like their original Cyrillic predecessors ЛЬ and НЬ.

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          • Daskalot
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 4345

            #20
            Originally posted by Otis Otus View Post
            Macedonians used most of these letters before 1944. I don't mind the current alphabet, I was just wondering which one people like most.
            Welcome Otis Otus, regarding the change of alphabet I do not think it is a good idea due to the fact that it would create a lot of confusion.
            Macedonian Truth Organisation

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            • ramo
              Member
              • Dec 2011
              • 117

              #21
              Originally posted by Otis Otus
              Slognica rečovska - published in 1880 in Sofia by Gjorgji Pulevski in an attempt to create the first official Macedonian alphabet, spelling and grammar.

              Big letters:
              А Б В Г Д Е Є Ж З И І К Л М Н О П Р С Т У Ф Х Ц Ч Ш Щ Џ Ѳ Ь Ъ Ѣ Ы Ю Ѫ Я

              Small letters:
              а б в г д е є ж з и і к л м н о п р с т у ф х ц ч ш щ џ ѳ ь ъ ѣ ы ю ѫ я

              http://mk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Слогница_речовска
              In this book he names the macedonian as separate language (slavic-macedonian).



              If we look at the text written in cyrillic aplhabet during 17, 18, 19, and early 20 century you will see many differences. Usually when today we speak about the cyrilic alphabet we usually mean the version used in the early 20 century. Today modern Macedonian alphabet is good, we only need the " ъ " letter because we pronounce many words with it. For most Macedonians in the republic this letter is not acceptable but for me it is because i am more comfortable with the history and i can not consider it "bulgarian" because the cyrilic alphabet is made on basis on the Macedonian dialects and most of the slavic countries use it. Further more most Macedonians educated in Bulgaria and Macedonia used it extensively. My point is that all countries made some kind of reform to the older cyrilic alphabet so it is absolutely no problem we did the same. I will give some examples how people from Croatia, Bulgaria and Serbia wrote differently from today.

              Bulgarian cyrilic from 18 century.





              Croatian cyrilic 16 century.



              Prvi dél No-
              voga Teštamenta,
              va tom su vsi četiri Evan-
              gelisti i Apustolska d’jan’ja iz’
              mnozih’ jazikov’ v sadašnji općeni i
              razumni H’rvatski jazik’, po Antonu
              Dalmatinu i Stipanu Istrijanu, s po-
              moću drugih’ bratov’, verno st’l-
              mačeni, i s ciruličskimi
              slovi najp’rvo sada
              štampani
              Serbian cyrillic in 1874.



              This is how Miladinovi brothers wrote in 1861.



              So none of them wrote with exactly the same letters they use today in Bulgaria, Serbia and Macedonia. If we go back in time let's say 13-17 century it becomes less and less understandable. It is because most of the books were meant to be read in churches for old-church slavonic language not in schools for the people that spoke the language at home.

              P.S. I saw there is a poll on this thread after i posted. My opinion is that this alphabet although close to today's alphabet should not be used. It was only a proposal from Pulevski. There are some symbols that are either obsolete and mean nothing or repeating or there are some symbols that can be replaced with others. So, as i said if i was to decide i was going to put only the "ъ" symbol because it is used in many words.



              (prvo) првo - "пръвo" or "първo"
              (drvo) дрво - „дърво"
              Last edited by ramo; 04-09-2014, 09:05 PM.

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              • ramo
                Member
                • Dec 2011
                • 117

                #22
                Originally posted by Niko777 View Post
                There are a few things I don't agree with in the new alphabet, one of them being the removal of "Ъ".

                I would replace "J" with "I"

                Get rid of "Џ" completely.
                Misirkov and some others used "i" instead of "j" in 1905 although the bulgarian alphabet was used extensively those days he did not use those exact letters. He used 7-8 different symbols for the letters that in the bulgarian alphabet at that time.




                But pronunciation of „Џ“ is different (little but different) than pronunciation of "ДЖ" that bulgarians use if you mean about that.
                Last edited by ramo; 04-09-2014, 09:19 PM.

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                • Niko777
                  Senior Member
                  • Oct 2010
                  • 1895

                  #23
                  Maybe we should all stop wasting our time debating about what Cyrillic alphabet Macedonia should use.... BECAUSE it looks like Macedonia is abandoning Cyrillic altogether!

                  (recently installed signage in Skopje)

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                  • Makedoncheto
                    Junior Member
                    • Apr 2014
                    • 4

                    #24
                    My Ideal Alphabet

                    My ideal alphabet would be like this

                    Big letters:
                    А Б В Г Д Е Є Ж З И І К Л М Н О П Р С Т У Ф Х Ц Ч Ш Ъ Я

                    Small letters:
                    а б в г д е є ж з и і к л м н о п р с т у ф х ц ч ш ъ я

                    Then we would spell Macedonia like this Макєдонія like that or something similar because in old times we spelled Macedonia with ye and today with a regular e so the word Makje mother would disappear. I don't even know why ъ was removed it looked so nice and fitted perfectly in today it looks strange withouth the ъ i would have words spelled like this Църква, Кърв, пърст it also look strange withouth ъ for example the Greek occupied Macedonian city of Sobotsko Macedonian cyrillic spell it like this С'ботско and it looks strange it needs a ъ....

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                    • Otis Otus
                      Junior Member
                      • Mar 2014
                      • 13

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Daskalot View Post
                      Welcome Otis Otus, regarding the change of alphabet I do not think it is a good idea due to the fact that it would create a lot of confusion.
                      Thanks.

                      Originally posted by Makedoncheto View Post
                      My ideal alphabet would be like this

                      Big letters:
                      А Б В Г Д Е Є Ж З И І К Л М Н О П Р С Т У Ф Х Ц Ч Ш Ъ Я

                      Small letters:
                      а б в г д е є ж з и і к л м н о п р с т у ф х ц ч ш ъ я

                      Then we would spell Macedonia like this Макєдонія like that or something similar because in old times we spelled Macedonia with ye and today with a regular e so the word Makje mother would disappear. I don't even know why ъ was removed it looked so nice and fitted perfectly in today it looks strange withouth the ъ i would have words spelled like this Църква, Кърв, пърст it also look strange withouth ъ for example the Greek occupied Macedonian city of Sobotsko Macedonian cyrillic spell it like this С'ботско and it looks strange it needs a ъ....
                      Maybe, but like written earlier, we don't need Я and Є because they can be spelled with two existing letters.

                      Comment

                      • Makedoncheto
                        Junior Member
                        • Apr 2014
                        • 4

                        #26
                        Hi Otis well i think that it would look strange writing only i all the time and that with ye i think it would be pronounced different if you only wrote ie
                        Last edited by Makedoncheto; 04-12-2014, 04:20 PM.

                        Comment

                        • Otis Otus
                          Junior Member
                          • Mar 2014
                          • 13

                          #27
                          My opinion on the ideal alphabet would be this:

                          Big letters:
                          А Б В Г Д Е Ж З Ѕ И Ј К Л М Н О П Р С Т У Ф Х Ц Ч Џ Ш

                          Small letters:
                          а б в г д е ж з ѕ и ј к л м н о п р с т у ф х ц ч џ ш

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                          • Makedoncheto
                            Junior Member
                            • Apr 2014
                            • 4

                            #28
                            Originally posted by Makedoncheto View Post
                            My ideal alphabet would be like this

                            Big letters:
                            А Б В Г Д Е Є Ж З И І К Л М Н О П Р С Т У Ф Х Ц Ч Ш Ъ Я

                            Small letters:
                            а б в г д е є ж з и і к л м н о п р с т у ф х ц ч ш ъ я

                            Then we would spell Macedonia like this Макєдонія like that or something similar because in old times we spelled Macedonia with ye and today with a regular e so the word Makje mother would disappear. I don't even know why ъ was removed it looked so nice and fitted perfectly in today it looks strange withouth the ъ i would have words spelled like this Църква, Кърв, пърст it also look strange withouth ъ for example the Greek occupied Macedonian city of Sobotsko Macedonian cyrillic spell it like this С'ботско and it looks strange it needs a ъ....
                            I forgot to add Ѕ ѕ.

                            Comment

                            • Liberator of Makedonija
                              Senior Member
                              • Apr 2014
                              • 1597

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Niko777 View Post
                              There are a few things I don't agree with in the new alphabet, one of them being the removal of "Ъ".

                              I would replace "J" with "I"

                              Get rid of "Џ" completely.
                              Why get rid of [Џ]?
                              I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                              Comment

                              • Chicho Makedonski
                                Junior Member
                                • Feb 2019
                                • 47

                                #30
                                If someone asked when Macedonian became an alphabet. Would 1945 be the correct answer when the alphabet was codified or 9th century AD when the Cyrillic alphabet was created by the Macedonian Saints Naum and Clement as a simplified form of Glagolitic?

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