Possible Etymology of Alexander

[spitfire]

I understand the linguistic interpretation, I guess it'll be convenient to find patterns and trends and with names who do not meet the same linguistic standards from Latin to Greek and vice-versa, or even the use of Akkadian or Asian scripts.

Lysandros and Lysander is a good start.

It is common for people not to understand the correlations when using other languages than greek.
Let's do it in French. Alexandre isn't it? Why is that?

In order to understand the correlation of the signifier and the signified, you need to go to which language has the most. And guess what. It's the greek language.
All other languages, including latin don't have that correlation. It is how the liguists approach such matters.

[Nikolaj]

And other coins have only "ΦΙΛΙΠΠ" because there was no room.

Where did you get the impression of modern macedonian letters depicted in these coins?
These coins are inscribed in greek. This means, as I already mentioned, that language alone is not sufficient for determining the descent of something.

I am speaking about the similarity of the Macedonian language to the Greek one in general. I am not saying the coin is written in the 'modern' Macedonian language... You only assumed.

A - normal
L - Л, similar to lambda
E - normal
X - unfamiliar but I assumed
A - normal
N - normal
D - Д, similar to delta
R - P in Macedonian but also Ro
O - normal

F - Ф in Macedonian, but also fi
I - normal
L - Л, similar to lambda
I - normal
P - Π in Macedonian, but also Pi.

I understand it is a possibility but I find it hilarious someone so artistically gifted would fail to space letters to fit a name.

[spitfire]

I am speaking about the similarity of the Macedonian language to the Greek one in general. I am not saying the coin is written in the 'modern' Macedonian language... You only assumed.

A - normal
L - Л, similar to lambda
E - normal
X - unfamiliar but I assumed
A - normal
N - normal
D - Д, similar to delta
R - P in Macedonian but also Ro
O - normal

F - Ф in Macedonian, but also fi
I - normal
L - Л, similar to lambda
I - normal
P - Π in Macedonian, but also Pi.

I understand it is a possibility but I find it hilarious someone so artistically gifted would fail to space letters to fit a name.

Yes, so? Slavic alphadet derived from greek alphabet that derived from phoenician alphabet (probably).

Artistically speaking don't you find it curious that these coins are not circular exactly?

[Nikolaj]

It is common for people not to understand the correlations when using other languages than greek.
Let's do it in French. Alexandre isn't it? Why is that?

In order to understand the correlation of the signifier and the signified, you need to go to which language has the most. And guess what. It's the greek language.
All other languages, including latin don't have that correlation. It is how the liguists approach such matters.

To deny integration of other languages to search for trends in linguistics is your first mistake. If it were correct, such principle would only apply to this area of expertise at most, any other area you'd be classified as a fool.

You are pretty much saying we should appreciate when there is correlation in linguistics, and anything which doesn't when it should to be incorrect and simply a failure of the linguist.
This is strictly based off what you want to believe and is a somewhat biased approach, anyone open minded would agree to that - my apologies if I have offended you.

For Greek-to-Latin transliteration, see this

http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/greekalphabet/a/122409GreekTerminationsinLatin.htm

There are some basic rules, also exceptions. It's possible (if not certain) that regarding Persian names Romans were based to the Greek transliterations and not the originals.

Also read post#65, all of it and especially it's ending (about Ale, Alexandro etc).

The theory proposed by various members in this thread was that Macedonian names were orginally non-Greek and they were gradually hellenised, they changed to the closest Greek names with a similar sound, e.g. a name like Bulba or Bilip became Philippos (Philip). It's a long thread.

I will read them and make my own judgments, thank you friend.

[Nikolaj]

Yes, so? Slavic alphadet derived from greek alphabet that derived from phoenician alphabet (probably).

Artistically speaking don't you find it curious that these coins are not circular exactly?

This is a completely different subject.
I never stated anything else you are the one asking the questions. I merely explained how I could interpret what it said on the coin, you are the one getting defensive and is acting as if i proposed that the coin had a 'modern' Macedonian script on it.

You are comparing someones ability to yield a perfect circle from a melted metal to drawing a masterpiece on it. Being an artist doesn't mean you're an expert at yielding metal into certain shapes, that's what a foundry worker is for. These are two completely different entities.

[spitfire]

To deny integration of other languages to search for trends in linguistics is your first mistake. If it were correct, such principle would only apply to this area of expertise at most, any other area you'd be classified as a fool.

You are pretty much saying we should appreciate when there is correlation in linguistics, and anything which doesn't when it should to be incorrect and simply a failure of the linguist.
This is strictly based off what you want to believe and is a somewhat biased approach, anyone open minded would agree to that - my apologies if I have offended you.

Where did I deny that other languages have correlations also?

I'm saying that in order to go for it, you need to exclude firstly the obvious. And in this case, as proven, it s quite obvious what has happened.
Lack of knowledge in linguistic matters brought the idea of -ov in the ending of the name, and therefore it implied a different approach. but this approach is so obviously wrong that it takes a minute to find what the case is about.

You need to understand and show the correlation of the signified and the signifier. You haven't done that yet. I did.

[spitfire]

This is a completely different subject.

Why is that?

[spitfire]

Let's see another example of depicted letters and artistic depiction.



On the back you see "ΑΙΓ". You also see how the turtle is depicted. With straight lines.
In the ancient world this type is common. You don't have to have all the letters nor you have to have a turtle as in the opposite side.

[Nikolaj]

Where did I deny that other languages have correlations also?

I'm saying that in order to go for it, you need to exclude firstly the obvious. And in this case, as proven, it s quite obvious what has happened.
Lack of knowledge in linguistic matters brought the idea of -ov in the ending of the name, and therefore it implied a different approach. but this approach is so obviously wrong that it takes a minute to find what the case is about.

No. I am speaking about the correlations of other languages with Latin and Greek as well, not just independently.
I am also talking about correlations to be inconsistent when it comes to comparing Latin to Greek and vice-versa; these should not be ignored like you say and be blamed on bad linguistics because you've decided which one you believe is correct.

You need to understand and show the correlation of the signified and the signifier. You haven't done that yet. I did.

You understand Greek directly, and reading a Latin variant isn't difficult for me either, you must feel proud of yourself.
I've acknowledged this methodology, I don't understand how I haven't done that.

I am here to have a proper discussion about linguistics, you've shown numerous signs of allowing your own external agenda to get in the way of our discussion, which questions whether or not i'd like to continue our discussion. For now, I am off to sleep as it is 1AM here in Australia.

[Nikolaj]

Why is that?

Because we are not speaking about where the Macedonian alphabet was derived from. I was only telling you how I interpreted the coins script and you are clearly failing to understand such a simple concept.

You're the one who said:

Yes, so? Slavic alphadet derived from greek alphabet that derived from phoenician alphabet (probably).

Completely irrelevant to our discussion.

[spitfire]

No. I am speaking about the correlations of other languages with Latin and Greek as well, not just independently.
I am also talking about correlations to be inconsistent when it comes to comparing Latin to Greek and vice-versa; these should not be ignored like you say and be blamed on bad linguistics because you've decided which one you believe is correct.

What correlations of other languages are these? Don't tell me about Sardanapalos again. I told you it's not a proper example because it is different in ending. Try Maeander for a change. This has transiletarion of even the greek "αι".

You understand Greek directly, and reading a Latin variant isn't difficult for me either, you must feel proud of yourself.
I've acknowledged this methodology, I don't understand how I haven't done that.

I am here to have a proper discussion about linguistics, you've shown numerous signs of allowing your own external agenda to get in the way of our discussion, which questions whether or not i'd like to continue our discussion. For now, I am off to sleep as it is 1AM here in Australia.

Actually I understand greek directly and indirectly as most greeks. This is how I understand Homer's Iliad, as I told you before. In fact I find it amusing even for the english language:

"The genesis of classical drama was not symptomatic. Aneuphoria of charismatic and talented protagonists showed fantastic scenes of historic episodes. The prologue, the theme and the epilogue, comprised the trilogy of drama while synthesis, analysis and synopsis characterized the phraseology of the text. The syntax and phraseology used by scholars, academicians and philosophers in their rhetoric, had many grammatical idioms and idiosyncrasies.
The protagonists periodically used pseudonyms. Anonymity was a syndrome that characterized the theatrical atmosphere.
The panoramic fantasy, the mystique, the melody, the aesthetics, the use of the cosmetic epithets are characteristics of drama.
Eventhrough the theaters were physically gigantic, there was noneed for microphones because the architecture and the acoustics would echo isometrically and crystal – clear. Many epistomologists of physics, aerodynamics, acoustics, electronics, electromagnetics can not analyze – explain the ideal and isometric acoustics of Hellenic theaters even today.
There were many categories of drama: classical drama, melodrama, satiric, epic, comedy, etc. The syndrome of xenophobia or dyslexia was overcome by the pathos of the actors who practiced methodically and emphatically. Acrobatics were also euphoric. There was a plethora of anecdotal themes, with which the acrobats would electrify the ecstatic audience with scenes from mythical and historical episodes.
Some theatric episodes were characterized as scandalous and blasphemous. Pornography, bigamy, hemophilia, nymphomania, polyandry, polygamy and heterosexuality were dramatized in a pedagogical way so the mysticism about them would not cause phobia or anathema or taken as anomaly but through logic, dialogue and analysis skepticism and the pathetic or cryptic mystery behind them would be dispelled.
It is historically and chronologically proven that theater emphasized pedagogy, idealism and harmony. Paradoxically it also energized patriotism a phenomenon that symbolized ethnically character and phenomenal heroism".



I'm here to state, that all this linguistic approach alone, is not sufficient of the descent of Alexander. I think I made it clear. We know that from ancient times. There are other things that need to coincide with language.

[Philosopher]

Some of these coins have the explanation of the possesive case. Philipou Vasileos. Of King Philip the King that is.

Spitfire there is a theory shared by (some) Macedonians that the word "vasil" or "vasileos" (Basil) has etymological meaning in Macedonian, and not in Greek. "Vasil" in Macedonian literally means "in power", which is a basic understanding of "prince, king".

Does vasileos have etymological meaning in Greek? If so, what and how is it derived?

What are your thoughts on all this?

[spitfire]

Spitfire there is a theory shared by (some) Macedonians that the word "vasil" or "vasileos" (Basil) has etymological meaning in Macedonian, and not in Greek. "Vasil" in Macedonian literally means "in power", which is a basic understanding of "prince, king".

Does vasileos have etymological meaning in Greek? If so, what and how is it derived?

What are your thoughts on all this?

"Βασιλεύς" or "Βασιλιάς" means King. "Βασιλεύω" Ι reign. "Βασίλειο" Kingdom.
Basil comes from that.
There is also the name "Βασίλειος" or "Βασίλης" for people.

[Philosopher]

"Βασιλεύς" or "Βασιλιάς" means King. "Βασιλεύω" Ι reign. "Βασίλειο" Kingdom.
Basil comes from that.
There is also the name "Βασίλειος" or "Βασίλης" for people.

Thank you Spitfire.

However, that is not what I mean. Let me explain and please correct me if I err.

The English name "George" derives from Greek (geo=earth) and (ergos=worker, energy). "Earth worker" or "farmer" is the meaning of George.

I know Basileus means king. What I would like to know is whether you can break down this word in simpler forms. In Macedonian "va" means "in" and "sil" means power. Vasil or Basil means "in power".

Can you do that in Greek?

[spitfire]

You are not breaking it down in correct linguistic terms. The correct linguistic breaking of the word would be Bas and the next word.
In other words, in greek the second word could derive from "έλευσις" wich is the coming of something. The first word, I think you can do it on your own. As a basis.
The etymology is not certain of course.
The word in ancient greek is "Βασιλεύς"->Vasilefs and the genitive form is "Βασιλέως" as inscribed in some coins.
Va and Sil? That's like saying that it's also Italian. Come Va?