Possible Etymology of Alexander

[Nikolaj]

Nikolaj, I have merged your thread with an existing one of the same topic. You may find some useful information here.

Fala mnogu, this thread will definitely help me with my questions

What is it exactly you would like to know?

The misunderstanding comes from the various forms of the name when used in several cases.
For instance:

Alexander=Alexandros
The Kingdom of Alexander=To vasilio tou Alexandrou

The prefix Alex- in greek means something that repels. For instance: Alexikeravno=lighting rod.
Andras=Man (of gender)
Of the man=tou andros

Changing the ending of the words is common in greek in numerous cases. It's grammar.

I am confused to why they think him being labelled as Alexandros by the Greek philosophers makes him Greek. I am wondering how that is even a viable argument which is commonly used by Greeks - "His name was alexandros!"

It is just a little common misconception I would like to get out of the way so thanks for your explanation.

[spitfire]

I am confused to why they think him being labelled as Alexandros by the Greek philosophers makes him Greek. I am wondering how that is even a viable argument which is commonly used by Greeks - "His name was alexandros!"

It is just a little common misconception I would like to get out of the way so thanks for your explanation.

It's not easy from a linguistic point of view. Even scholars don't know the relation of the ancient macedonian language to that of greek language.

As for the changing of letters I have another example. This one's a little complicated.
Hellas. In greek Ellas. Las in ancient greek means stone. We don't use las as a word today but it is used in compound words. For instance Latomeio. "Tomi" means incision, therefore "latomeio" means the place where stones get the incision, the quarry.
Here comes the difficult part:
El had a stress mark that of "dasia" in order to show that there was a letter prior to that. The letter was Sigma (the s) so the word was "Sel" which means light. That's how the name Selini (the moon) came.
The name Hellas means Light and stone (or rock).

It is a very difficult subject in a linguistic way. There's plenty of knowledge that needs to be involved.

[Nikolaj]

It's not easy from a linguistic point of view. Even scholars don't know the relation of the ancient macedonian language to that of greek language.

As for the changing of letters I have another example. This one's a little complicated.
Hellas. In greek Ellas. Las in ancient greek means stone. We don't use las as a word today but it is used in compound words. For instance Latomeio. "Tomi" means incision, therefore "latomeio" means the place where stones get the incision, the quarry.
Here comes the difficult part:
El had a stress mark that of "dasia" in order to show that there was a letter prior to that. The letter was Sigma (the s) so the word was "Sel" which means light. That's how the name Selini (the moon) came.
The name Hellas means Light and stone (or rock).

It is a very difficult subject in a linguistic way. There's plenty of knowledge that needs to be involved.

Fascinating stuff, I definitely got it thus far and I think this is something i'll get into in terms of research.

[spitfire]

Fascinating stuff, I definitely got it thus far and I think this is something i'll get into in terms of research.

You'll find yourself streching out to mythology. In fact, according to greek mythology the hellenes (the greek) were born out of the throwing of rocks.

What is important is that you understand a lot the way I described. This is how I understand a greek text of 800BC. By the use of the parts of words today.
For instance, and I'm letting this go as it is not quite the subject, in Homer's Iliad we read something called "vryhia ydata". We know what ydata means, it means water. But what is vryhia water?
Well very easily today we say ypovryhio which means submarine. Vryhio is something deep. Today we use "vryhomai" which means "I roar", roaring comes from the deep and implies something deep. The tiger is known to use subsonic sounds in its roar in order to immobilize its victim. So do elephants in order to communicate.

As Antisthenes would put it. Visiting of names is the beginning of wisdom. Hopefully I translated that correctly.

[Soldier of Macedon]

The misunderstanding comes from the various forms of the name when used in several cases.

There is no case ending in Greek which renders the name as Alexander, yet in Latin it is Alexander and in Asia it is Iskandar or Sikandar. This could mean the name has a native non-Greek form which sounded similar to the latter, with the Greek version possibly being a case or combination of 'interpretatio graeca' and/or folk etymology.

Changing the ending of the words is common in greek in numerous cases. It's grammar.

It's common in all languages.

[spitfire]

There is no case ending in Greek which renders the name as Alexander, yet in Latin it is Alexander and in Asia it is Iskandar or Sikandar. This could mean the name has a native non-Greek form which sounded similar to the latter, with the Greek version possibly being a case or combination of 'interpretatio graeca' and/or folk etymology.

-os is mostly the case with greek names. Whatever the case, language on its own is not sufficient for a common descent of something.

As for the -er vs re, center in american english and centre in british english yet they are pronounced as -er. The word is greek from "kentro". Latin is known to follow the pronunciation of writing as greek does. In a possible scenario, it could be difficult for the -ndre to be pronounced in Asia, hence it became -ar or -er and latin followed suit afterwards.

Or Latin, does it with every name ending in -andros to make it -ander. As in the case of Lysander which is Lysandros in greek, following the same genitive rule becoming Lysandrou in the possesive case.

[Nikolaj]

-os is mostly the case with greek names.

Definitely not true, refer to my old post about Assyrian King Ashurbanipal.

Akkadian: Aššur-bāni-apli
Greek: Sardanapalos
Latin: Sardanapalus
Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashurbanipal

Which is quite funny, the Latin variant has a Hellenic feature for it for someone who was definitely not Greek, and then we have Alexander which doesn't have any Hellenic feature which is consistent with the Asian variant Iskandar or Sikandar..

[spitfire]

Definitely not true, refer to my old post about Assyrian King Ashurbanipal.



Which is quite funny, the Latin variant has a Hellenic feature for it for someone who was definitely not Greek, and then we have Alexander which doesn't have any Hellenic feature which is consistent with the Asian variant Iskandar or Sikandar..

What is not true? -palos os not the same with -andros. I gave you an example with Lysandros.

You have to remember the correlation of the signified to that of the signifier when looking for linguistic explanation.

[Amphipolis]

Nikolaj,

we don't know the original names of the Macedonian Kings only through the works of historians, but also from the coins they printed (themselves) and I guess also from various other inscriptions.

This link is (unfortunately) in Greek but it has the coins of all Macedonian Kings in historical order, starting from Alexander I. You can click on the pictures and zoom (a total of 35 coins/pictures).

http://anakalipto.blogspot.gr/2012/11/blog-post_6176.html#.VCAkSRaLXq6

[spitfire]

Some of these coins have the explanation of the possesive case. Philipou Vasileos. Of King Philip the King that is.

Also I read a lot of misanderstunding at the first posts regarding the letter "xi". It is pronounced as K and S together. The idea that the possesive case implies the ending -ov comes strictly from ignorance of linguistic matters. Always remember the signified and the signifier.

[Nikolaj]

What is not true? -palos os not the same with -andros. I gave you an example with Lysandros.

You have to remember the correlation of the signified to that of the signifier when looking for linguistic explanation.

Yes I understand, however it doesn't mean it wasn't a Greek interpretation of the name. The original name of the king has been written differently by different languages, it does not necessarily mean his original name was Alexandros.

I never said Greek names did not end in -os. I am saying that names which aren't Greek are also generally accompanied by an -os in Greek script, as shown in the example of Assyrian king Ashurbanipal's original Akkadian name and the Greek variant of his name. Of course there is a system to it, but that system is constant and applies equally with Alex/Ashur. What I was especially trying to point out was that the Latin variant has a Greek feature to a non-Greek name, yet wouldn't include that same similar feature to Alexander which is now supposedly a Greek name.

Akkadian: Aššur-bāni-apli
Greek: Sardanapalos
Latin: Sardanapalus

Nikolaj,

we don't know the original names of the Macedonian Kings only through the works of historians, but also from the coins they printed (themselves) and I guess also from various other inscriptions.

This link is (unfortunately) in Greek but it has the coins of all Macedonian Kings in historical order, starting from Alexander I. You can click on the pictures and zoom (a total of 35 coins/pictures).

http://anakalipto.blogspot.gr/2012/1...l#.VCAkSRaLXq6

I never said Alexander was his original name, read the above response.


Also, does this coin not say 'Alexandro'? I understand that is Alexander I in advance. Excuse me if i'm wrong, it's just what I've interpreted based on the Greek letters I use in engineering and the similarity in the current Macedonian language.

[spitfire]

Yes I understand, however it doesn't mean it wasn't a Greek interpretation of the name. The original name of the king has been written differently by different languages, it does not necessarily mean his original name was Alexandros.

I never said Greek names did not end in -os. I am saying that names which aren't Greek are also generally accompanied by an -os in Greek script, as shown in the example of Assyrian king Ashurbanipal's original Akkadian name and the Greek variant of his name. Of course there is a system to it, but that system is constant and applies equally with Alex/Ashur. What I was especially trying to point out was that the Latin variant has a Greek feature to a non-Greek name, yet wouldn't include that same similar feature to Alexander which is now supposedly a Greek name.

Akkadian: Aššur-bāni-apli
Greek: Sardanapalos
Latin: Sardanapalus

You are missing important linguistic matters here. The compound of words is one. You can't use just the -os here. It's the -andros which means man and its transliteration in Latin which is -ander. As in Lysandros-Lysander.

-os is an ending in most greek names (but not all). That's to understand why it is -andros and not -anir which is the word in its original writing, that of nominative.

[Nikolaj]

You are missing important linguistic matters here. The compound of words is one. You can't use just the -os here. It's the -andros which means man and its transliteration in Latin which is -ander. As in Lysandros-Lysander.

-os is an ending in most greek names (but not all). That's to understand why it is -andros and not -anir which is the word in its original writing, that of nominative.

I understand the linguistic interpretation, I guess it'll be convenient to find patterns and trends and with names who do not meet the same linguistic standards from Latin to Greek and vice-versa, or even the use of Akkadian or Asian scripts.

Lysandros and Lysander is a good start.

[spitfire]

Also, does this coin not say 'Alexandro'? I understand that is Alexander I in advance. Excuse me if i'm wrong, it's just what I've interpreted based on the Greek letters I use in engineering and the similarity in the current Macedonian language.

And other coins have only "ΦΙΛΙΠΠ" because there was no room.

Where did you get the impression of modern macedonian letters depicted in these coins?
These coins are inscribed in greek. This means, as I already mentioned, that language alone is not sufficient for determining the descent of something.

[Amphipolis]

Also, does this coin not say 'Alexandro'? I understand that is Alexander I in advance. Excuse me if i'm wrong, it's just what I've interpreted based on the Greek letters I use in engineering and the similarity in the current Macedonian language.

For Greek-to-Latin transliteration, see this

http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/greekalphabet/a/122409GreekTerminationsinLatin.htm

There are some basic rules, also exceptions. It's possible (if not certain) that regarding Persian names Romans were based to the Greek transliterations and not the originals.

Also read post#65, all of it and especially it's ending (about Ale, Alexandro etc).

The theory proposed by various members in this thread was that Macedonian names were orginally non-Greek and they were gradually hellenised, they changed to the closest Greek names with a similar sound, e.g. a name like Bulba or Bilip became Philippos (Philip). It's a long thread.