Documents of Macedonian Immigration

[Risto the Great]

Is "Jewish" an ethnicity? A genuine question.

[Onur]

Is "Jewish" an ethnicity? A genuine question.

In the conservative Jewish belief, yes it is an ethnicity as well as being a religion because according to them, you cant be a Jew but you can only born as one. For example, you have to provide birth certificate and a proof of your Jewish ancestry to be considered as a Jew in Israel and when you do that, Israeli state gives you their passport and citizenship without any further question or a procedure. But as far as i heard, these conservative Jewish rules doesn't exist in USA and sometimes people willingly convert as Jew without properly providing the proof of their Jewish ancestry and Israeli jewish rabbis was trying to prevent the ones in USA doing that.

But ofc this is just a bullsh.t. No matter what they would come up, they cannot convince me that an ethiopian or middle-eastern Jew and a Jew from Poland having same ancestors from Jerusalem, 2000 years ago (!!!). This is quite similar as the belief of a modern Greek being a relative of Sophocles and Homer.

[Risto the Great]

they cannot convince me that an ethiopian or middle-eastern Jew and a Jew from Poland having same ancestors from Jerusalem, 2000 years ago (!!!). This is quite similar as the belief of a modern Greek being a relative of Sophocles and Homer.

Hard to disagree with particularly as it applies to genetics much less ethnicity.

[Daskalot]

Here is something interesting. I am sure you're all familiar with the comedian Jerry Seinfeld. His family has a mixed Jewish background, his mother being from Syria. When her family came to the U.S they recorded their nationality as 'Turkish' - no doubt due to Syria belonging to the Ottoman Empire at the time. Just an example of how easily the picture can become blurred by some people with an agenda.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/24/ny...24records.html

I knew I had heard the 'Hosni' name mentioned before, look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hosni_Mubarak

So Seinfeld's ancestors had non Jewish first and last names, how come?

[TrueMacedonian]

Always nice to go back to these old topics. Here's some more sources that are related.

[Soldier of Macedon]

From the Macedonian page of wikipedia concerning Macedonians in Bulgaria. The source given is 8.↑ АМ, ф.БГК - Солун 1896 - 1915, No. 181, 20.02.1904, something that will be good to confirm:

http://mk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%98%D0%B0_%D0%B2%D0%BE_%D0%91%D1%83%D0%B3%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%98%D0%B0

Македонското прашање во Бугарија не било само политичко туку и економско. За местото и улогата на Македонците во Бугарија дознаваме и од разговорот кој е воден помеѓу, бугарскиот трговски агент во Солун, Атанас Шопов и солунскиот валија Хасан Фехми паша во почетокот на 1904 година. Во текот на дискусија било истакнато:

(Хасан Фехми паша б.н) Дали Македонците сѐ уште бујуствуваат во Бугарија? (Атанас Шопов б.н) Како да не бујуствуваат паша ефенди, кога... поголемиот дел од жителите на Софија се Македонци. Голем дел од видните чиновници се Македонци. Целата македонска интелигенција од Македонија е во Бугарија. Македонската толпа е по улиците... Улогата на Македонецот во судбината на Бугарија воопшто секогаш била важна... Уште поважна играат сега. Ако работата е за оплакување, ние од Бугарија имаме повеќе право од вас да се оплакуваме од Македонците, зашто тие ни ја презедоа силата, тие ни ги зедоа најдобрите места и служби, тие ни ги презедоа финансиите и градовите, тие ни ја презедоа војската и нашите министерства, тие ни ја презедоа трговијата, тие презедоа речи си, се во Бугарија... Избаветене од нив заради Бога.

[Krivan]

Ellis Island Macedonians

I've been going through Ellis Island public records (of 1894-1924) available on the internet. I've seem to have found five common dimensions of listed ethnicity.

The first is "Turkey, Macedonian", the second is "Greece, Macedonian", the third one is "Macedonia, Bulgarian", "Macedonia, Servian" and the last one is "Macedonia, Macedonian".

I looked at other ambiguous countries like Yugoslavia which had the ethnicity of people written as "Yugoslavia, Croatian".

So, obviously, the first is country and second is ethnicity.

I think we can differenate Macedonians and Bulgarians from Macedonia quite well using Ellis Island records. The Bulgarians from Macedonia seemingly to only have written in "Macedonia (region where they're from) and Bulgarian (ethnicity). On the other hand, we have a Georgi Kostaki from Skopje (Uskub back then) who was written in "Turkey, Macedonian".

We have lots of Macedonians who didn't write in Turkey but rather Macedonia instead even during times of Ottoman occupation or Serbian occupation.

- http://www.ellisisland.org/search/pa...D=101318050281 (Year 1910)
- http://www.ellisisland.org/search/pa...D=105359030167 (Year 1912)
- http://www.ellisisland.org/search/pa...D=102208010952 (Year 1906)
- http://www.ellisisland.org/search/pa...D=100754130130 Gjorgje Josimovic - notice the Serbianised last name, that's because he came from Northern Macedonia and he came over in year 1913 i.e the year Serbia annexed Macedonia -- yet he still identified as Macedonia from Macedonia - that speaks to how strong our identity is despite heavy repression
- http://www.ellisisland.org/search/pa...D=100856011185 Koln Josoff (First name is probably a Ellis Island error) is apparently a Macedonian from Lovetch, Bulgaria
- http://www.ellisisland.org/search/pa...D=101857050008 Petro Josifn, a Macedonian from Albania (Stratoberda, a village in Korce)
- http://www.ellisisland.org/search/pa...D=101936020197 Piotr Kosteff, a Macedonian from Resen
- http://www.ellisisland.org/search/pa...D=100922070402
- http://www.ellisisland.org/search/pa...D=102190030824
- http://www.ellisisland.org/search/pa...D=100977030842
- http://www.ellisisland.org/search/pa...D=101450090162
- http://www.ellisisland.org/search/pa...D=100925021376
- http://www.ellisisland.org/search/pa...D=104819070187

Lots more... you can search here http://www.ellisisland.org/search/re...LTS=97%7Ckoos&

"Yugoslavia, Croatian"

http://www.ellisisland.org/search/passRecord.asp?MID=04145873050896686976&LNM=TESLA&PLNM=TESLA&last_kind=0&town_kind=0&ship_kind=0&TOWN=null&SHIP=null&RF=4&ETHS=465&pID=604617030041

"Macedonia, Servian"

http://www.ellisisland.org/search/passRecord.asp?MID=04145873050896686976&LNM=KOS&PLNM=KOS&last_kind=1&town_kind=0&ship_kind=0&TOWN=null&SHIP=null&RF=101&ETHS=446&pID=102710013105

"Turkey, Macedonian"

http://www.ellisisland.org/search/passRecord.asp?MID=04145873050896686976&LNM=KOS&PLNM=KOS&last_kind=1&town_kind=0&ship_kind=0&TOWN=null&SHIP=null&RF=101&ETHS=446&pID=101033080084

"Macedonia, Bulgarian"

http://www.ellisisland.org/search/passRecord.asp?MID=04145873050896686976&LNM=KOS&PLNM=KOS&last_kind=1&town_kind=0&ship_kind=0&TOWN=null&SHIP=null&RF=101&ETHS=446&pID=102005140020

[George S.]

that's a great find krivan.

[Daskalot]

I've been going through Ellis Island public records (of 1894-1924) available on the internet. I've seem to have found five common dimensions of listed ethnicity.

The first is "Turkey, Macedonian", the second is "Greece, Macedonian", the third one is "Macedonia, Bulgarian", "Macedonia, Servian" and the last one is "Macedonia, Macedonian".

I looked at other ambiguous countries like Yugoslavia which had the ethnicity of people written as "Yugoslavia, Croatian".

So, obviously, the first is country and second is ethnicity.

I think we can differenate Macedonians and Bulgarians from Macedonia quite well using Ellis Island records. The Bulgarians from Macedonia seemingly to only have written in "Macedonia (region where they're from) and Bulgarian (ethnicity). On the other hand, we have a Georgi Kostaki from Skopje (Uskub back then) who was written in "Turkey, Macedonian".

We have lots of Macedonians who didn't write in Turkey but rather Macedonia instead even during times of Ottoman occupation or Serbian occupation.

- http://www.ellisisland.org/search/pa...D=101318050281 (Year 1910)
- http://www.ellisisland.org/search/pa...D=105359030167 (Year 1912)
- http://www.ellisisland.org/search/pa...D=102208010952 (Year 1906)
- http://www.ellisisland.org/search/pa...D=100754130130 Gjorgje Josimovic - notice the Serbianised last name, that's because he came from Northern Macedonia and he came over in year 1913 i.e the year Serbia annexed Macedonia -- yet he still identified as Macedonia from Macedonia - that speaks to how strong our identity is despite heavy repression
- http://www.ellisisland.org/search/pa...D=100856011185 Koln Josoff (First name is probably a Ellis Island error) is apparently a Macedonian from Lovetch, Bulgaria
- http://www.ellisisland.org/search/pa...D=101857050008 Petro Josifn, a Macedonian from Albania (Stratoberda, a village in Korce)
- http://www.ellisisland.org/search/pa...D=101936020197 Piotr Kosteff, a Macedonian from Resen
- http://www.ellisisland.org/search/pa...D=100922070402
- http://www.ellisisland.org/search/pa...D=102190030824
- http://www.ellisisland.org/search/pa...D=100977030842
- http://www.ellisisland.org/search/pa...D=101450090162
- http://www.ellisisland.org/search/pa...D=100925021376
- http://www.ellisisland.org/search/pa...D=104819070187

Lots more... you can search here http://www.ellisisland.org/search/re...LTS=97%7Ckoos&

"Yugoslavia, Croatian"

http://www.ellisisland.org/search/passRecord.asp?MID=04145873050896686976&LNM=TESLA&PLNM=TESLA&last_kind=0&town_kind=0&ship_kind=0&TOWN=null&SHIP=null&RF=4&ETHS=465&pID=604617030041

"Macedonia, Servian"

http://www.ellisisland.org/search/passRecord.asp?MID=04145873050896686976&LNM=KOS&PLNM=KOS&last_kind=1&town_kind=0&ship_kind=0&TOWN=null&SHIP=null&RF=101&ETHS=446&pID=102710013105

"Turkey, Macedonian"

http://www.ellisisland.org/search/passRecord.asp?MID=04145873050896686976&LNM=KOS&PLNM=KOS&last_kind=1&town_kind=0&ship_kind=0&TOWN=null&SHIP=null&RF=101&ETHS=446&pID=101033080084

"Macedonia, Bulgarian"

http://www.ellisisland.org/search/pa...D=102005140020

Krivan you are making the same mistake as the Greeks trying to negate our presence in the historical records do, you are NOT looking at the ORIGINAL SHIP MANIFEST, but rather an electronic version of it that has been processed by a human being entering the data in a database. You need to view the ORIGINAL SHIP MANIFEST to see the original data entered in the sheet, and analyse it carefully because it was sometimes altered by hand changing what was originally entered.

Please read this post of mine posted earlier in this thread; https://www.macedoniantruth.org/foru...&postcount=208

So please look at the ORIGINAL SHIP MANIFEST, by clicking on that button on the pages you link to.

[lavce pelagonski]

This is a great thread full of useful information.

[mango]

Macedonians in America

I don't know if you guys are aware but Greek historian Dimitris Lithoxou has done an extensive research on the subject and actually counted the number of Macedonians who entered the USA. Here is the link http://lithoksou.net/elis1897.html

Krivan you are making the same mistake as the Greeks trying to negate our presence in the historical records do, you are NOT looking at the ORIGINAL SHIP MANIFEST, but rather an electronic version of it that has been processed by a human being entering the data in a database. You need to view the ORIGINAL SHIP MANIFEST to see the original data entered in the sheet, and analyse it carefully because it was sometimes altered by hand changing what was originally entered.

Please read this post of mine posted earlier in this thread; https://www.macedoniantruth.org/foru...&postcount=208

So please look at the ORIGINAL SHIP MANIFEST, by clicking on that button on the pages you link to.

[George S.]

Wwe need the original script we don't need one that has been manipulated can be made to say anything.

[makgerman]

"Macedonians are unlucky, no country wants them" as written in a Milwaukee Journal article in 1932.

USA's stance hasn't changed!

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GahQAAAAIBAJ&sjid=2CEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3586%2C3343277

[George S.]

Yeah the greeks will do anything it takes to disprove the existence of macedonians.Even pay someone to alter vital documents.They'll pay (bribe) people to make it all sound greek.
Makgerman you make agood point with that article no body wamt's the macedonians.

[TrueMacedonian]

This was printed in 1909.

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