Greek General Demetrios Kallergis on who fought the Turks (1860)

[Orfej]

That's a personal website and while I'm willing to accept that it also included ethnic Macedonians a scholarly source would be more reliable. On the other hand at the time of its foundation it included only Albanianshttp://books.google.com/books?id=uUw...one%22&f=false

The text says that the king of Naples was not pleased/had no reason to be pleased that Epirotes were enlisted in the Royal Macedonian regiment. It does not say that the Albanians were the ONLY ONES enlisted in the regiment at its foundation.

On the other hand the text says that these Epirotes/Albanians were ''capitani greci'' (Captains of the Greeks). What do you think the author meant by that?

, but later Hungarians and Greeks enrolled toohttp://www.flickr.com/photos/28981624@N02/3740770183/,

Lets see what the web page provided by Droog states:

The Neapolitan Royal Macedonian Regt taken from the Divisas Y Antiguedades document. (Naples' version of the Cloathing Book, made for the new Borbone monarch who would become Spain's Charles III.) The regt was awarded the "Royal" title for valour shown during the siege of Velletri, 1744. Many of its members were deserters from the Imperialists' Grenzer and Hungarian regts. The colours have not faded as much with this plate--red with blue distinctive colour.

Droog thinks that the sentence in bold means that the Greeks and Hungarians were also included in the regiment. Sorry Droog, but ''GRENZER'' has nothing to do with Greece. It was a Croatian regiment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenz_infantry

PS: Droog still hadn't provided evidence where Vlachs are being labelled as Macedonians by some Greek author. So we must conclude that his previous claim was taken out of his arse.

[TrueMacedonian]

That's a personal website and while I'm willing to accept that it also included ethnic Macedonians a scholarly source would be more reliable. On the other hand at the time of its foundation it included only Albanianshttp://books.google.com/books?id=uUw...one%22&f=false, but later Hungarians and Greeks enrolled toohttp://www.flickr.com/photos/28981624@N02/3740770183/, so regardless of its later composition the term Macedonian wasn't used in the modern sense

Maybe we should look into it further: http://www.realcasadiborbone.com/uk/...ione/index.htm

http://www.realcasadiborbone.it/uk/credits/index.htm

Credits

This Internet website is property of the Royal House of the Bourbon Two Sicilies and the Sacred Military Constantinian Order of St. George. Any reproduction, also partial, without prior written authorization is forbidden.
Design, realization and technical management:
Starfarm Internet Communications s.r.l.

Acknowledgements:

This site was realized thanks to the contribution of Prof. Massimo Viglione who wrote the historical part and collaborated in the drafting of the area on the Sacred Military Constantinian Order of St. George; the kind collaboration of Ambassador Antonio Benedetto Spada, who wrote the part on the Orders of Knighthood, and made available the relevant pictures; a special thank to Prof. Leonardo Saviano and Mr. Marco Cecilia.

If that doesn't suit you then here's a more objective source:


page 503

[Droog]

http://www.realcasadiborbone.com/uk/...co/armi_01.htm



It seems that there actually were Macedonians in this regiment.

That's a personal website and while I'm willing to accept that it also included ethnic Macedonians a scholarly source would be more reliable. On the other hand at the time of its foundation it included only Albanianshttp://books.google.com/books?id=uUw...one%22&f=false, but later Hungarians and Greeks enrolled toohttp://www.flickr.com/photos/28981624@N02/3740770183/, so regardless of its later composition the term Macedonian wasn't used in the modern sense

[Orfej]

http://www.realcasadiborbone.com/uk/...co/armi_01.htm



It seems that there actually were Macedonians in this regiment.

Bravo TrueMacedonian, it seems like Droog is keen on manipulating just to `prove` a point!

[Orfej]

In this case there are only two terms used(Albanians & Macedonians) and that's why we deal with them.

No Kallergis also uses the term ''real Greeks'' , The ones who ''were too degraded to even wish for liberty''. Who were these ''real Greeks'' that he mentions? If you have real Greeks doesn't that mean that there were also fake Greeks?

[TrueMacedonian]

It was not uncommon at all to call Aromanians Macedonians, Macedonovlachs etc like for example in this 1818 work http://books.google.ro/books?id=VfhD...nische&f=false

The ethnonym Macedonian had of course many meanings as in the case of the King of Naples who styled his Albanian guard as the Royal Macedonian

http://www.realcasadiborbone.com/uk/archiviostorico/armi_01.htm

There was also the Royal Macedonia regiment, formed by Albanians and Macedonians wearing uniforms similar to their country’s clothes and a long and heavy sword hanging from their belt.
The two companies of Halberdiers of the Royal Palace – one in Naples and the other in Palermo – were equipped with a sword and a short halberd engraved with the coat of arms of the Bourbon family.

It seems that there actually were Macedonians in this regiment.

[Orfej]

It was not uncommon at all to call Aromanians Macedonians, Macedonovlachs etc like for example in this 1818 work http://books.google.ro/books?id=VfhD...nische&f=false

Why don't you try to find a book where the Vlachs are simply called Macedonians? Preferably written by a Greek since Demetrios Kallergis was such.
The term Macedonovlachs is self explanatory and is different from Macedonian. Don't try to sell us half-arguments as truth!

The ethnonym Macedonian had of course many meanings as in the case of the King of Naples who styled his Albanian guard as the Royal Macedonian

Not an Albanian guard, but an Albanian regiment.
You know there was also an American ship used in the American Civil War called `USS Macedonian`.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Macedonian_%281836%29

According to you this must mean that the term Macedonian was used as a synonym for Americans? Or maybe it was a synonym for a ship?

[Droog]

Droog I honestly think you make up crap as you go. Because on the pages 304 and 305 of the book posted in the first post of this thread many peoples are mentioned. In the discussion between Kalergi and Senior 10 are mentioned, let me post them; Frenchman, American, Italian, Sicilians, Germans, Greeks, Turks, Albanians, Macedonians and Foreigners. Please explaine what they all mean and why they were used.

and the title's thread is Greek General Demetrios Kallergis on who fought the Turks (1860). We could discuss all those terms but they're not the subject of this topic. As I already proved the term Macedonian had many definitions, so deal with it.

[KingMac]

Droog I honestly think you make up crap as you go. Because on the pages 304 and 305 of the book posted in the first post of this thread many peoples are mentioned. In the discussion between Kalergi and Senior 10 are mentioned, let me post them; Frenchman, American, Italian, Sicilians, Germans, Greeks, Turks, Albanians, Macedonians and Foreigners. Please explaine what they all mean and why they were used.

[Droog]

So in this particular case we shall regard Albanians, Turks and Greeks as such but Macedonians shall be regarded as Vlachs. Also you like to give us explanations on why Albanians called thier royal guard as Macedonian. Frankly it looks like you are going to great lenghts explaining away Macedonians.

In this case there are only two terms used(Albanians & Macedonians) and that's why we deal with them. I explained to you that the term Albanian was also used in previous eras for Catholicism in Montenegro(where the local Slavs called it Arbanaska vera), but this isn't a case connected in any way to that as we're speaking about the southernmost Albanians, who were almost exclusively Orthodox. The term Macedonian, on the other hand as I proved was used for many different definitions including Aromanians too. I gave you to examples to make it easier for you to understand that definitions of a term vary.

[KingMac]

So in this particular case we shall regard Albanians, Turks and Greeks as such but Macedonians shall be regarded as Vlachs. Also you like to give us explanations on why Albanians called thier royal guard as Macedonian. Frankly it looks like you are going to great lenghts explaining away Macedonians.

[Droog]

Are you claimig Albanians to be Macedonians?

I'm simply explaining to you that terms have different meanings that vary in each era, so don't anachronize them. Do you understand that concept?

[KingMac]

Are you claimig Albanians to be Macedonians?

[Droog]

Keywords: styled and as.
Not being, I have styled myself as a king does this now make me a king?

...and that means that his Albanian guard was called the Royal Macedonian Guard. Terms have different meanings in different eras. Not to mention that terms changed from geographic to ethnic or religious definitions and vice-versa like In scholarly writings of the 17th and 18th* cents. the Croats are described as Illyrians and the Albanians as Epirotes or Macedonians

[KingMac]

Keywords: styled and as.
Not being, I have styled myself as a king does this now make me a king?