Lost Solun: A History in Pictures

[George S.]

How do you know about admin being on holidays the rules should apply just the same if you are derogotary to us you wont r eally admit anything or say your sorry so what does it matter you get banned either way for being insultive.So you must think that were fools who know no better but we know better than you on our forum.

[George S.]

When all is said and done you really dont agree that were ma cedonians and you are just greeks.You would assume everything is greek,when you should be reminded that peole from aegean area were be aten and jailed for speaking and being macedonian.What could I say you wont admit to attrocities on the macedonian people.How do you know that admin is on holidays and now you can just misbehave.?

[Amphipolis]

Amphipolis I dont like liars masquearading as women or telling bs about what happened thousandsof years ago ago.YOu dont talk about recent 100years ago .Ifyou do your not admiting to anything but you sure want to talk about what happened 2000 years ago.
where does it say the real macedonians ceased to exist but we have macedonians or people calling themselves macefonian have existed continously for eeons.YOu develop your fancifull ideas that greeks were macedonians and that slavs came in the 7th century and real macedonians didnt exist.
This I s pure and crazy ptopaganda and lies.These people you call arent just slavs they are only macedonians.YOur ideas are completely devoid of reality.THink about how you are wrong.THe real mace d onians were on the balkans and you cant admit the truth o that.YOu are a sick puppy greeks are thieves they arent even greek we dont accept your bs theories about macedonians being slavs.THey are just macefonian.

I don’t mind discussing any period.

I don’t remember when Slavs first appeared in Macedonia.

I may consider changing my avatar and put a man with a moustache there.

I never wrote Paulos was a Greek name. I wrote Paul wrote in Koine Greek and adopted the name Paulos. Paulos, as it is written in the New Testament, is Greek (in spelling).

Yes, it does say Hellas, but note it does not state Achaia. Here is the problem. You have “Macedonia” and you have “Hellas”, geographically separate territories. Luke did not write Acahia in this context, even though he could have. Indeed, he uses the word Achaia in Acts, but not in Acts 20. Likewise, he uses “Macedonian” and “Greek” throughout the New Testament.

I understand. Here is the problem. Slavic tribes are believed to have originated from Ukraine. Modern day Macedonians are indigenous to the Balkans.
Bulgars were members of a central Asiatic tribes and adopted a south eastern Slavic dialect in the Balkans. Are Bulgars Slavs? Slavs are from Ukraine. Bulgars are a nation from central Asia. They are very different peoples, but both speak a Slavic dialect today.

1. All names are somehow Hellenised in New Testament (including Jesus that originally should sound something like Yeshua), Greek names are Latinized in Latin texts and so on.

2. The passage in Acts 20 was a little difficult and I wouldn’t bother to understand where Paul moved to and came back from, so I guessed Hellas means Achaea. If you think it’s something deeper or different you’ll have to study it and come back to us. As for the use of Hellenes which is very frequent in these passages, I think it’s a totally different issue (not a geographical one).


3. We’ve had this discussion recently here:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=163260#post163260

I dont know why the admin has let you after the derogary and insulting remarks you have made about macefonians.

The administrator is gone for Christmas and has abandoned all of you, alone and helpless. Now, what are you going to do about it?

Why do you try so hard to represent the heterogeneous population of Greece as a definitive single race?

Why do you try so hard to offend and devalue the “Macedonian’s”, attempting to present them as something other than what they are?

Amphipolis a member of a heterogeneous population, making sarcastic insulting and racist remarks towards the Macedonian people.

How can any statement from you have any relevance or worth, what would you know of racial group’s? What authority do you think you have, you’re a joke.

I don’t think I used (or understand) the word race. That is probably George S.

I also don’t understand much on the issues of genetic homogeneity as (usually) presented by Philosopher and others.

Truth shouldn’t offend you. I just reminded you the original name of my hometown.


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[George S.]

I have been saying this for along time.Its pure hate and resentment for conquering them thats what it is.Now they are happy to appropriate anything macedonian they actually beleive their propaganda.How could one country belong to 4other ones suddenly?
Whats the reason a newly created country demanded more rich agricultural land the aegean.
ALL they had was the aechaean area which is hardly anything to operate a new country abd athens was all swamp.People call it thieving and a land grab you oNly need to see what they did to erradicate the macedonians.People know what they d id to the people.

[Redsun]

Why do you try so hard to represent the heterogeneous population of Greece as a definitive single race?

Why do you try so hard to offend and devalue the “Macedonian’s”, attempting to present them as something other than what they are?

Amphipolis a member of a heterogeneous population, making sarcastic insulting and racist remarks towards the Macedonian people.

How can any statement from you have any relevance or worth, what would you know of racial group’s? What authority do you think you have, you’re a joke.

[George S.]

You got to be a moron why?Theres overwhelming evidence of the differences of the two races.The macedonian language was not the same.UNder roman rule macedonia was a seperate province.
amphipolis dont know his history that there were a number of anti macedonian wars of greeks resenting macedonian rule . Th at means they are not the same people.Ypu should learn the real history before you come on this forum.You are lying to legitimise your countries claim over macedonia.YOur statements show glarring and incomplete factual de tails.All you can say is a rehash of your govts propaganda machine.You are fool to think we are going to swallow that bullshit.Your views are are not welcome on this forum.I dont know why the admin has let you after the derogary and insulting remarks you have made about macefonians.

[Mad Mak]

You probably read it in this thread: Who are the Slavs? - Citations and Sources , in one of SoM's posts, here's a direct link to the post.

Ceлyнeнинa=Selunenina

The early Slavonic text in question is "Life of Methodius" (Vita Methodii) written by Saint Clement of Ohrid.

That’s very interesting, if not important and widely unknown. We can pass it to Wikipedia, BUT:

Are we sure it is correct? A google search provides only a couple of results.
Also, does Solun also appear in Slavonic texts of the time? If not, can we find its’ earliest appearance?

I will give you an appropriate response to your questions when I'll have free time. My first post was not complete and I'm sorry for that.

[Philosopher]

Paulus is a Roman (Latin) name, not a Greek one.

I never wrote Paulos was a Greek name. I wrote Paul wrote in Koine Greek and adopted the name Paulos. Paulos, as it is written in the New Testament, is Greek (in spelling).

This one DOES say Hellas. The phrasing is too complicated, probably Hellas identifies to Achaea. Most maps for Apostles times look like this (Macedonia includes Thessaly, sometimes Epirus does not exist), though names and borders of Roman provinces may have changed several times.

Yes, it does say Hellas, but note it does not state Achaia. Here is the problem. You have “Macedonia” and you have “Hellas”, geographically separate territories. Luke did not write Acahia in this context, even though he could have. Indeed, he uses the word Achaia in Acts, but not in Acts 20. Likewise, he uses “Macedonian” and “Greek” throughout the New Testament.

That’s one thing we agree on. If you define the “real Macedonians” as the descendants of Ancient Macedonia, you can’t be both that AND Slavs. You can only be one of the two (guess which one).

I understand. Here is the problem. Slavic tribes are believed to have originated from Ukraine. Modern day Macedonians are indigenous to the Balkans.

Bulgars were members of a central Asiatic tribes and adopted a south eastern Slavic dialect in the Balkans. Are Bulgars Slavs? Slavs are from Ukraine. Bulgars are a nation from central Asia. They are very different peoples, but both speak a Slavic dialect today.

[George S.]

There is lot m entioned that the macedonians predate your greeks.Note the modern greeks have no telationship with the ancient.also the modern greek is not really a greek wh
en you really look at what is made up as the greek.Apparently its only recent that the greeks have bern referring to macedonia so that they can usurp mace d onian history and assume it as greek.
Amphipolis I dont like liars masquearading as women or telling bs about what happened thousandsof years ago ago.YOu dont talk about recent 100years ago .Ifyou do your not admiting to anything but you sure want to talk about what happened 2000 years ago.
where does it say the real macedonians ceased to exist but we have macedonians or people calling themselves macefonian have existed continously for eeons.YOu develop your fancifull ideas that greeks were macedonians and that slavs came in the 7th century and real macedonians didnt exist.
This I s pure and crazy ptopaganda and lies.These people you call arent just slavs they are only macedonians.YOur ideas are completely devoid of reality.THink about how you are wrong.THe real mace d onians were on the balkans and you cant admit the truth o that.YOu are a sick puppy greeks are thieves they arent even greek we dont accept your bs theories about macedonians being slavs.THey are just macefonian.

[Amphipolis]

You cant accept the fact that macedonians were barbarians non greek with a non greek language that you cant accept. BOth phillip and alexander were despised and hated for not being a greek.

Philip and Alexander considered themselves Greek.

If greece ande macedonia were the one race why did alexander conquer them?

Because… he wasn’t racist? (Just trying)

Todays macedonians are not just slavs as your stupid govt days we are the real macedonoans.THe ottomans called us macedonians.

That’s one thing we agree on. If you define the “real Macedonians” as the descendants of Ancient Macedonia, you can’t be both that AND Slavs. You can only be one of the two (guess which one).

Lastly, Ottomans never recognized or mentioned a Macedonian nation, language or Church. But they DID recognize a Bulgarian and a Vlach one.

Also you are a phoney coming on this forum posing as a woman when your a man.

The woman in my avatar is a Greek celebrity and NO, she is not me and she is not a member of the forum.

[Amphipolis]

Quiz: What was the city originally called? Hint...not what you call it!

Quiz: What did that original name mean?

Quiz: The very first settlement founders, the Endopi, what were they called? Hint...no greeks involved!

Give it a crack son.

If you refer to Therme (or Thermae), it's not exactly Thessaloniki's first name. Though Strabo puts it this way somewhere (Book VIII?) "Thessalonice, the city previously called Therme" he's more analytical in another passage (Book VII, Fragments):

The Axius is a muddy stream; but Homer calls it "water most fair," perhaps on account of the spring called Aea, which, since it empties purest water into the Axius, proves that the present current reading of the passage in the poet is faulty. After the Axius, at a distance of twenty stadia (4km), is the Echedorus; then, forty stadia (7,5km) farther on, Thessaloniceia, founded by Cassander, and also the Egnatian Road. Cassander named the city after his wife Thessalonice, daughter of Philip son of Amyntas, after he had rased to the ground the towns in Crusis and those on the Thermaean Gulf, about twenty-six in number, and had settled all the inhabitants together in one city; and this city is the metropolis of what is now Macedonia. Among those included in the settlement were Apollonia, Chalastra, Therma, Garescus, Aenea, and Cissus; and of these one might suspect that Cissus belonged to Cisses, whom the poet mentions in speaking of Iphidamas, "whom Cisses reared.

Therme in Ancient Greek means heat, fever and also thermal baths.

I've read Therme was founded by Eretrians or Corinthians, but I don't know the source. As for the exact locations of Thessalonice (original position) and Therme, there are many interesting archaeological opinions (some are quite recent).


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[George S.]

Crack on the old fella.

[Macedonian]

The people who called the city Thessaloniki, Solun and Selanik were certainly three different people.

Quiz: Which one of the three NEVER owned the city throughout its' history?



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Quiz: What was the city originally called? Hint...not what you call it!

Quiz: What did that original name mean?

Quiz: The very first settlement founders, the Endopi, what were they called? Hint...no greeks involved!

Give it a crack son.

[Macedonian]

Q1. What was the original name of the city? Hint...it wasn't 'Thessaloniki'

Q2. What does the original name mean?

[Toska]

During the middle ages, Thessaloniki was fortified by a huge wall called the Thessaloniki walls. It was built in the 4th century for the purpose to obviously protect the city from invasions and outside influences. Slavs never managed to occupy the city of Thessaloniki, but yet during the rule of Byzantine emperor Michael III, the Slavonic language was supposedly spoken by all of it's people.



....


At the time St. Cyril, then still known as Constantine, was receiving his education in Byzantium, there was a strong German effort to convert the Slavic population in Moravia to the Roman Catholic faith. Their teachings however were in Latin, and as a result, in 862 or 863, the Moravian Prince Rostislav sent to the Byzantine Emperor Michael III for a "bishop and a teacher," saying, "My people have rejected paganism and hold the Christian law, but we do not have a teacher who could preach to us in our own native tongue." The Emperor quickly chose to send Constantine, accompanied by his brother Methodius, justifying his decision with the words "You two are from Salonika, and all Thessalonians speak pure Slavonic." Constantine immediately composed an alphabet and with his brother began the process of translating the Gospels into Slavonic. It appears that, at the time, the Slavonic dialects were little enough differentiated so that a translation could be made which would be broadly intelligible.

offically it maybe have been called Thessaloniki, but by the local slavic speakers it was solun because all thessalonians speak pure slavonic, even thou "the slavic invasion never breached the walls of Solun"