Mustafa Kemal Atatürk and his Macedonian ancestry

[Soldier of Macedon]

Wikipedia references, great, I am sure there are many holes in these swiss cheese examples and sources, which I will scrutinize later - collectively - with what your kinsmen (that you claim not to be your kinsmen) were doing in parallel.

I disagree. Although they may have paid tribute at times in order to maintain their independence, they fought more than they paid.

Tribute? How much tribute did they pay when they criminally assumed control of all Christian Churches (with the blessing of the Turks) in 1767? How much tribute did they pay when they joined ranks with the Turks in Macedonia to bless the Islamic cannons firing into Christian villages during the early 1900's? Not your kinsmen, of course.

[Spartan]

Not your kinsmen, of course.

Spot on......

I also do not deny the abhorrent and traitorous actions committed by the other Greeks you mention above.
Horrible stuff allying with Turks....

[Onur]

"Proud name of Spartans"??

"Peculiar features of Spartans than any other race, and never bows to anyone"???

"Church-bells as a sign of never occurred Turkish reign"????

"Numbering 12.000 people but Turks always feared them and young Maniots lived free forever"????(12.000 men beats the shit out of giant Turkish Empire, its like a movie scenario)




What is this???? Arent there too many adjectives in these sentences like "proud, peculiar" and precise statements like "never"???

Is this some kind of fairytale???

Where are the footnotes, references and sources in this document with full of adjectives and certain comments???

Do you think this as a scientific and objective piece of work? You regard this as a true information??




Spartan, i pity for you if you rub your Greek "pride" and masturbate with these kind of stuff... but i understand you, since you new born Greeks needed some fairytale to be proud of and boost your fake and invented nationalistic ideas. So, German and British novelists created some stories for you to make the new born sons of Achilles proud of their race.

[Spartan]

I dont care for the blood connection to the ancient Spartans.... thats why i didnt outline it.
True or not, it makes no difference to me.

It is your choice to disregard the text I have provided.
Makes no difference to me either.

Do you deny the Turks struggled for 350 years to subdue the little penninsula I hail from, and never really fully controlled it?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Spot on......

Of course, your people in the Peloponnese are their own 'nation' and all the other so-called Greeks are not Greeks because you yourself don't consider them as kinsmen. Get real, you don't get to pick and choose the members of your nation, it is what it is.

[Spartan]

Of course, your people in the Peloponnese are their own 'nation' and all the other so-called Greeks are not Greeks because you yourself don't consider them as kinsmen. Get real, you don't get to pick and choose the members of your nation, it is what it is.

I agree that they are my 'countrymen' today, and no you can not pick and choose... but i definitely wouldnt consider them my 'kinsmen'.

Would you consider someone of non-Macedonian ethnicity, from Macedonia your 'kinsman'?

Contryman, fellow citizen....okay.

I interpret 'kinsman' to be like 'relative' or 'family'

[Soldier of Macedon]

So you are defining 'kinsmen' as being of the same ethnicity? Where exactly does this ethnicity (as you define it) begin and where does it end? The Peloponnese? Who are they? Where are they? How about you be specific, or is that too much to ask?

[Bill77]

[QUOTE = Spartan; 54263] Onur has an excuse, English is obviously not his first language .... and its better than yours: tt2: [/ QUOTE]



There is no shame in being second to onur. He is a champ

By the way, Macedonian is my first Language and always will be.

You ripped him a new asshole.

speaking of assholes, how many do you have now??? lol

[Spartan]

So you are defining 'kinsmen' as being of the same ethnicity?

Technically 'kin' implies relative, but someone with roots, and lifestyle of the same place i guess.
Wether those roots go back 100 yrs or 10 000
Obviously everybody is mixed.

Would that fall under 'ethnicity'?

I dont know

[Soldier of Macedon]

Are we going to play games with terminology again? Who do you consider to be the same ethnicity as yours, and where do they live, what is their living space? You don't consider the animal Karavangeli as being the same ethnicity as yourself? Do ethnic Greeks only reside in the Peloponnese?

[Spartan]

In general, the Morea.
Although Im not implying that we all share the 'same', or 'pure blood', which i guess 'ethnicity' implies.
But much in common over the last few hundred years in terms of the recent evolution of the people of these lands.

You don't consider the animal Karavangeli as being the same ethnicity as yourself?

No

Do ethnic Greeks only reside in the Peloponnese?

I dont think so.

[Spartan]

Wikipedia references, great, I am sure there are many holes in these swiss cheese examples and sources, which I will scrutinize later - collectively - with what your kinsmen (that you claim not to be your kinsmen) were doing in parallel.

I dont doubt my kinsmen (who i claim not to be my kinsmen) were doing what you are going to show me (in parallel).
Nor do i condone it.
I was merely responding to the statement that no blood was shed prior to 1821.

[Soldier of Macedon]

So nobody outside of Morea is an ethnic Greek, according to yourself?

[Spartan]

There was no blood shed between 1453 to 1821.

Is this still your stance?

How much tribute did they pay when they criminally assumed control of all Christian Churches (with the blessing of the Turks) in 1767?

None, my forefathers were fighting the Turks at that time.

How much tribute did they pay when they joined ranks with the Turks in Macedonia to bless the Islamic cannons firing into Christian villages during the early 1900's?

None. They were probably evading their taxes to the greek state.

[Spartan]

So nobody outside of Morea is an ethnic Greek, according to yourself?

There are/were Greeks outside the Morea.
There are/were also non-greeks in the Morea.
I just think the 'greek element' lessens as you go north.