Related Balkan Tribes

[Soldier of Macedon]

I think what remains of Thracian is conclusive enough to confirm that their language was indeed closely related to Balto-Slavic.

[Sovius]

Genetic and linguistic evidence are defining a chronology detailing the amalgamation of indigenous populations with migrating populations originating from North Africa and the Middle East along the southern fringes of Southeastern Europe. Lexical adoption can entail semantic transformations that, I believe, can be used to reconstruct the indigenous linguistic stratum without the use of Thracian artifacts, as the Achaean civilizations, because they left a linguistic record that can be dated, can be used to support the relative dating of words that must have been in use between two distant regions existing along the periphery of Trakia.

A well known example would be the relationship between ‘oditsi’ and ‘odysessy’. The contemporary Macedonian word continues to preserve a more basic meaning, in this case, to walk away, to depart, than its creole counterpart, which came to represent a long voyage. While the Sarmatian cognates to the north have been more thoroughly studied, demonstrating point C, thus providing a plausible hypothetical form for point B between C and A (Achaea), the Basque word ‘Ibilaldi’, when compared to ‘odi’, the root of ‘oditsi’, may be of greater importance in the long run. ‘alde egin’ means to walk away in the Basque language, demonstrating the phenomenon of agglutination, the joining together of two different words to make one word. ‘awl’ is ‘oh’ pronounced backwards in a sense. ‘oh’ is more mechanically conservative, possibly indicating adoption. Indigenous Iberian populations who originated in Illyria are currently regarded by geneticists as having inhabited the region for around 9,000 years or so. There are now two independent relative dates that can be used to frame these similarities from three different regions in Europe and three different languages.

It may be the biological descendents of the ancient Thracians who ultimately hold the key as to what word their ancestors used for departing. The challenge for Victorian theorists now is to provide evidence demonstrating linguistic discontinuity between points A, C and D that does not contradict Europe’s genetic and archeological records. To the best of my knowledge, the M17 genetic marker has not been found to any significant extent among the Basques of Western Europe. There is a reason why Alinei believes Indo-European toponyms are older in Iberia than Basque toponyms. Is there a connection between R1b populations in the Republic of Hellas, R1b populations the Basque country and R1b populations in the Caucus region? What should we make of Caucasian linguistic elements that remain in use in the Albanian language? It would be interesting to research whether or not Grecophone Albanians contributed anything from the Caucasian languages to the resurrected APMC that could be isolated from its pre-Modern stages.

[Soldier of Macedon]

References from Herodotus (some of the more fanciful stories are not to be taken too literally):

I can say of my own knowledge that there is a custom like these offerings; namely, that when the Thracian and Paeonian women sacrifice to the Royal Artemis, they have straw with them while they sacrifice. Book 4, 33.

Thrace runs farther out into the sea than Scythia; and Scythia begins where a bay is formed in its coast, and the mouth of the Ister, facing southeast, is in that country. Book 4, 99.

The Scythians sent messengers to their neighbors, whose kings had already gathered and were deliberating on the presumption that a great army was marching against them. The assembled kings were those of the Tauri, Agathyrsi, Neuri, Maneaters, Black-cloaks, Geloni, Budini, and Sauromatae. Book 4, 102.

The Agathyrsi are the most refined of men and especially given to wearing gold. Their intercourse with women is promiscuous, so that they may be consanguine with one another and, all being relations, not harbor jealousy or animosity toward one another. In the rest of their customs they are like the Thracians. Book 4, 104.

The Thracians have many names, each tribe according to its region, but they are very similar in all their customs, save the Getae, the Trausi, and those who dwell above the Crestonaeans. Book 5, 3

Among the rest of the Thracians, it is the custom to sell their children for export and to take no care of their maidens, allowing them to have intercourse with any man they wish. Their wives, however, they strictly guard, and buy them for a price from the parents. To be tattooed is a sign of noble birth, while to bear no such marks is for the baser sort. Book 5, 6.

These men's borders, it is said, reach almost as far as the Eneti on the Adriatic Sea. Book 5, 9.

Paeonia lay on the Strymon, a river not far from the Hellespont, and that they were colonists from the Teucrians of Troy. Book 5, 13.

The Mysians and Teucrians which before the Trojan war crossed the Bosporus into Europe, subdued all the Thracians, and came down to the Ionian sea, marching southward as far as the river Peneus. Book 7, 20.

[TheNikoWhiteIch]

The Macedonians appear to have been a Thracian people.

I found a book that references the Macedonians to the Thracian race:

The Macedonians appear to have been a Thracian people. The Argive Temenidae founded a Grecian state in Macedonia at an early period...But the language of the Macedonians was unintelligible to the Greeks. The Greek soldiers in Alexander's army understood not, as we learn from Quintius Curtius, a speech addressed to the Macedonians...If we give credit to Strabo, we must consider the Macedonians as a Thracian people. That geographer mentions several parts of the Macedonian country, and Pieria, on the borders of Thessaly, which he expressly says had been peopled by the Thracians...By this we can only understand that the Thracian language and Thracian manners still prevailed among the inhabitants of these countries...

Reference: Researches Into the Physical History of Mankind: ... James Cowles Prichard ... 3rd edition, Vol. III. Containing: Researches Into The History Of The European Nations. London, 1841. Book IV: Researches Into The Ethnography of Europe and Asia.

[Toska]

By the 5th century BC, the Thracian presence was pervasive enough that Herodotus called them the second-most numerous people in the part of the world known by him (after the Indians), and potentially the most powerful, if not for their lack of unity

and if the thracians are protoslavic this would mean, that these people are the same people that spoke the same language that reside on the balkans today.

[Nikolaj]

and if the thracians are protoslavic this would mean, that these people are the same people that spoke the same language that reside on the balkans today.

Correct,

http://www.korenine.si/zborniki/zbornik07/serafimov_tra07.pdf

There are so much words that are Southern Slavic related that aren't even relatively similar to Latin or Greek, and more similar or not similar at all to Balto-Slavic.

Theoretically it shouldn't be like this due to the time frame of when Slavs supposably arrived, and developed into a Southern Slavic language. Which... is more similar to the Thracians who were meant to be completely Greekified and Romanised or vice versa according to modern day history. It also counteracts the idea that they are more Balto-Slavic related which is why it is even more interesting.

E.g.

zaldo > zoloto, zlato (C.Sl) > gold > aurum > χρυσός > auksas

Thracian > Slavic > English > Latin > Greek > Lithuanian

chal > kal (Blg, Russ, Sl, Sr) > mud > limus > λάσπη > purvas

il > ilǎ (O.Ch.Sl), ilo Sl; jul in Tolminski dialect > mud > lutum > λάσπη > purvas

kurp > korpati – (O.Ch.Sl) > to dig > fodere > σκάβω > kasti

velek > vlačiti (Blg, Cz, Sl, Sr) > to drag > trahere > σέρνω > draga

zur > zora (C.Sl) > dawn, bright > aurum > χάραμα > auštra

bal > jal, bel (C.Sl) > white > alpus > λέυκος > baltas

There are plenty more in there too.

[Amphipolis]

I would disagree only with the last one:

bal > jal, bel (C.Sl) > white > alpus > λέυκος > baltas

Greeks also had the word phalos (φαλός, not to be confused with phallos= phallus) which also meant white, bright, shiny. It is related to phalakros (bald headed), that was balakros in Macedonia (a common first name, met in 4 or 5 different persons in the days of Alexander). Also, the name of a mountain in Eastern Macedonia, Thrace (probably at the Greek-Bulgarian borders).

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[George S.]

Yeah but where did the word originate.Is it a strict greek word.Linguists have found ancient words that are roots in the Macedonian and greek.Alexander was a Macedonian name came the greeks we have alexandros,phillipos,So on just because its stated in greek doesn't mean that it was originally greek.That's not to say there aren't any greek words.I think a book has been written,by tashko belchevski about the words.

[Nikolaj]

I would disagree only with the last one:



Greeks also had the word phalos (φαλός, not to be confused with phallos= phallus) which also meant white, bright, shiny. It is related to phalakros (bald headed), that was balakros in Macedonia (a common first name, met in 4 or 5 different persons in the days of Alexander). Also, the name of a mountain in Eastern Macedonia, Thrace (probably at the Greek-Bulgarian borders).

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Balakros is consistent with ancient Macedonian phonology which is interesting as it makes words match in the north. Can Phallos, Phallus be explained etymologically in Greek?

[Nikolaj]

A few extremely obvious ones:

Thracian > Slavic > English > Latin > Greek > Lithuanian

zemla > zemlja (C.Sl), Zemja (Macedonian) > earth > terra, homma > χωμά > žeme

2 vedu,*** ud(a) > voda (C.Sl) udă (Blg dl.) > water > aqua, udis – marsh > νέρο > vandus

batku > batko (Blg, Ukr, Russ) > chief > potens > ποτινία > ponas

[George S.]

There are sinmilarities of the Sanskrit .Latin has had similar words ie from eutruskan.
Examplse of latin cest stoij kaj trust.Everything stays in trust.Starri decisisis.Old decision.Don't be surprised of the similarities of eutruskan to Macedonian.

[TheNikoWhiteIch]

I would disagree only with the last one:



Greeks also had the word phalos (φαλός, not to be confused with phallos= phallus) which also meant white, bright, shiny. It is related to phalakros (bald headed), that was balakros in Macedonia (a common first name, met in 4 or 5 different persons in the days of Alexander). Also, the name of a mountain in Eastern Macedonia, Thrace (probably at the Greek-Bulgarian borders).

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According to Serafimov, in his paper "Etymological Analysis of Thracian Toponyms and Hydronyms," the original (ancient) Macedonian name for the Belasitza mountain range was "Βάλάκρος (Balakros)."

Oρβέλος (Orbelos) was Thracian name of the mountain Belasitsa. According Georgiev it means White Mountain, coming from the Phrygian, or Peonian – Βελον, corresponding to Bulgarian бел (bel) white. To that I would like to add that bel, bjal– white is common Slavic word. The Macedonian name of Oρβέλος was Βάλάκρος, which Georgiev sees as Βάλ-άκρος – White top [3], p. 33. Βάλ means white, and άκρος corresponds in my opinion to the Phrygian word akris – end, top [14], p. 158, related to Russian крыша (krǎiša) roof, top, and also to Slovene word kraj - end, Serbian and Bulgarian words край (krai) – top, end.

In my opinion, I see -akros as being the same word that is found in Greek. On the other hand, Bal- seems to correspond more with the Slavic Bjal. Here, Macedonian undergoes a similar development from a common root that is found in the Thracian -belo(s) (from Orbelos) and the Paeonian Byl(a)- (from Bylazora). Now, Βαλακρός (Balakros) according to Henry George Liddell's dictionary on Macedonian was the Macedonian version of "Φαλακρός (Phalakros)" (bald-headed). I'm not certain how much of a difference the difference in accents makes, but it seems to be enough to be noted as 2 different words by these two linguists.

[Carlin]

Fanula Papazoglu wrote On some "Thracian" names in Illyria (Sur quelques noms "Thraces" en Illyrie).

On one of the pages it is stated that (it's essentially a summary): Illyrians and Thracians were not the only ethnic groups in the (northern) Balkans. Between them, and among them, there existed one more, even perhaps two ethnic groups.

On the same page: In northern Macedonia, that is - Paeonia, Pelagonia, Mygdonia - there were also remnants of inhabitants who were neither Macedonian, nor Illyrian, nor Thracian. Beside the Paeonians, who were likely close to the Phrygians, the Edonians belonged to the same ethnic family.