Related Balkan Tribes

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  • Delodephius
    Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 736

    #91
    Originally posted by Demos View Post
    Slovak,

    If that is the case please post some Slavic documents dating prior to 500AD.

    Thanks
    The absence of evidence is not the same thing as evidence of absence!
    अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
    उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
    This is mine or (somebody) else’s (is the way) narrow minded people count.
    But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.

    Comment

    • Risto the Great
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 15659

      #92
      Originally posted by Slovak/Anomaly/Tomas View Post
      The absence of evidence is not the same thing as evidence of absence!
      That is a good one.
      And we see much evidence of absence when it comes to Macedonia's history over the last 1500 years. Any reason why dear Greek friends?
      Risto the Great
      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

      Comment

      • Soldier of Macedon
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 13675

        #93
        Here is something about Spartan's people from Mani, written by Constantine Porphyrogenitus:

        The inhabitants of the city of Maina are not of the race of the aforesaid Slavs, but of the ancient Romans, and even to this day they are called 'Hellenes' by the local inhabitants, because in the very ancient times they were idolaters and worshippers of images after the fashion of the ancient Hellenes; and they were baptized and became Christians in the reign of the glorious Basil. The place where they live is waterless and inaccessible, but bears the olive, whence their comfort is. This place is situated on the tip of Malea, that is, beyond Ezeron towards the coast.
        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

        Comment

        • Spartan
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 1037

          #94
          The Maniots are also known to have offered the fiercest resistance to the Ottoman occupation.

          Comment

          • Soldier of Macedon
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 13675

            #95
            Something else by Strabo about the related tribes from both sides of the Danube:
            For `to turn his eyes again,' is more especially to turn them behind him; but he who extends his vision from the Trojans to the people either behind them, or on either side of them, stretches his sight to a greater distance, but not in the least behind him. And this also is introduced as a proof of this very thing, that Homer classes with these the Hippemolgi, the Galactophagi, and the Abii, who are the Scythian Hamaxœci and Sarmatians; for at this day, all these nations, as well as the Bastarnæ, are mixed with the Thracians, more especially with those beyond the Danube, and some even with the Thracians on this side the Danube; also amongst these are the Keltic tribes of the Boii, Scordisci, and Taurisci. Some, indeed, call the Scordisci the Scordistæ, and give to the Taurisci the names of Ligurisci and Tauristæ. Book 7, 3, 2.
            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

            Comment

            • Risto the Great
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 15659

              #96
              If I remember correctly, the Scordisci preceded the Hungarians.
              I wonder how close the Celts are to the Thracians.
              And as a consequence to the Slavs.
              Risto the Great
              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

              Comment

              • Soldier of Macedon
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 13675

                #97
                Celts lived along the Danube among Thracian and Illyrian tribes since ancient times before they migrated from their homeland, Alexander made contact with them during his campaign in the northern Balkans.

                The fact that the Bagpipe is common in both the Balkans and Scotland (among other neighbouring areas) indicates a common cultural element.
                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                Comment

                • Soldier of Macedon
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 13675

                  #98
                  Here are some interesting texts from the Roman writer Livy, with regard to ancient lineage.

                  Take note of the mention of Veneti and Enetians;
                  To begin with, it is generally admitted that after the capture of Troy, whilst the rest of the Trojans were massacred, against two of them - Aeneas and Antenor - the Achivi refused to exercise the rights of war, partly owing to old ties of hospitality, and partly because these men had always been in favour of making peace and surrendering Helen. Their subsequent fortunes were different. Antenor sailed into the furthest part of the Adriatic, accompanied by a number of Enetians who had been driven from Paphlagonia by a revolution, and after losing their king Pylaemenes before Troy were looking for a settlement and a leader. The combined force of Enetians and Trojans defeated the Euganei, who dwelt between the sea and the Alps and occupied their land. The place where they disembarked was called Troy, and the name was extended to the surrounding district; the whole nation were called Veneti. Similar misfortunes led to Aeneas becoming a wanderer, but the Fates were preparing a higher destiny for him. He first visited Macedonia, then was carried down to Sicily in quest of a settlement; from Sicily he directed his course to the Laurentian territory. Here, too, the name of Troy is found, and here the Trojans disembarked, and as their almost infinite wanderings had left them nothing but their arms and their ships, they began to plunder the neighbourhood. The Aborigines, who occupied the country, with their king Latinus at their head, came hastily together from the city and the country districts to repel the inroads of the strangers by force of arms. (1, 1)

                  An Etruscan king sending forth to the oracle of Delphi, another example of non-Greeks engaging cultural elements located within Greece.
                  The king himself was not so much terrified as filled with anxious forebodings. The Etruscan soothsayers were only employed to interpret prodigies which affected the State; but this one concerned him and his house personally, so he decided to send to the world-famed oracle of Delphi. Fearing to entrust the oracular response to any one else, he sent two of his sons to Greece, through lands at that time unknown and over seas still less known. (1, 56)
                  In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                  Comment

                  • Soldier of Macedon
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 13675

                    #99
                    Just a summary of quotes about Thracians.

                    The Thracians are the biggest nation in the world, next to the Indians. If they were under one ruler, or united, they would, in my judgment, be invincible and the strongest nation on earth..........The Thracians have many names, each tribe according to its region, but they are very similar in all their customs, save the Getae, the Trausi, and those who dwell above the Crestonaeans......(Herodotus, 5th Century BC)

                    If compared to other nations of the earth, Thracians altogether are the most crowded people after the Celts. For this reason, no other nation before the Romans has been able to cover the Thracians under their hegemony. Only Romans was the first to rule Thracians……(Pausanias, 2nd Century AD)

                    Perhaps even the whole of Greece was, anciently, a settlement of barbarians, if we judge from former accounts……….Thracians, Illyrians, and Epirotae…the territory they possessed was more extensive, although even now the barbarians possess a large part of the country, which, without dispute, is Greece. Macedonia is occupied by Thracians, as well as some parts of Thessaly…….(Strabo, 1st Century AD)

                    ……… the Trojans to the people either behind them, or on either side of them………Homer classes with these the Hippemolgi, the Galactophagi, and the Abii, who are the Scythian Hamaxœci and Sarmatians; for at this day, all these nations, as well as the Bastarnæ, are mixed with the Thracians, more especially with those beyond the Danube, and some even with the Thracians on this side the Danube; also amongst these are the Keltic tribes of the Boii, Scordisci, and Taurisci. Some, indeed, call the Scordisci the Scordistæ, and give to the Taurisci the names of Ligurisci and Tauristæ.........(Strabo, 1st Century AD)

                    .............but if he should say they were but an invention, as there were no Mysians in Thrace, he will be guilty of a palpable misstatement, for even in our own times Aelius Catus has removed from the opposite side of the Danube into Thrace fifty thousand Getae, who speak a language cognate with the Thracian. They still inhabit the very spot, and pass by the name of Moesi……..(Strabo, 1st Century AD)

                    As for the Getae, that is to say the herds of Sclavenes, they were fiercly ravaging the regions of Thrace………….(Simocatta, 6th Century AD)
                    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                    Comment

                    • Risto the Great
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 15659

                      If the Getae spoke a language cognate with the Thracians, and Macedonia was occupied by the Thracians in the time of the 1st century AD, the myth of slavic migrations is reduced to something more akin to a distraction from the truth.

                      Nice summary SoM.
                      Risto the Great
                      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                      Comment

                      • Pelister
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 2742

                        Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                        Just a summary of quotes about Thracians.
                        This is pretty cool stuff.

                        The Getae were a Thracian tribe.

                        I have two other ancient sources/quote (separate from the ones above) that refer to the Sclavenes as "Getae".

                        Comment

                        • Soldier of Macedon
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 13675

                          Please share Pelister, I am sure they will be of interest.
                          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                          Comment

                          • Pelister
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 2742

                            Although Theophylact Simocatta can be criticized for his use of synonyms, he mentioned that the Sclavenoi are "Getae".

                            The Romans are closing on the Sclavenoi in the northern plains of Thrace.

                            The Romans drew near to the Getae (for this is the older name for the barbarians), but did not dare to come to grips, since they were afraid of the javenlins which the barbarians were sending from the barricade against their horses (vii.2.5 Theophylact Simocatta)
                            Theophylact's use of the term "Getae" as a synonym for the Sclavenoi, is paralleled by Marcellinus Comes (s.ann.505, 517 and 530).

                            Marcellinus Comes, Chronicle, ed. T.Mommsen (Mgh Auct.Ant.xi, Chron. min.ii, Berlin,1893-4)
                            .

                            I am trying to get a copy of this source by Marcellinus Comes.

                            Comment

                            • Sovius
                              Member
                              • Apr 2009
                              • 241

                              Of the Getai, Procopius wrote:

                              “They believe there is one god, that of lightning, creator of all; they believe him to be sole lord, and they sacrifice oxen and all sacrificial animals to him.”

                              Herodotus wrote this about the Getai around 1,000 years earlier:

                              “These same Thracians also shoot arrows up towards the sky when thunder and lightning come, and use threats to the god, not believing that there exists any other god except their own.”

                              This may explain the large number of cranial fractures found among Dacian burial sites and why modern Romanians tend to get very nervous when it rains.

                              Gebeleizis was the name of the Gothic sky god, as preserved in the Achaean creole language. This mythical figure was also referred to as Nebeleizis. Nebo means sky and giba means the stirring of things, a word associated with movement and motion among the Pelasgian languages.

                              Aristotle was a Macedonian philosopher. The ancient Macedonian kingdom was regarded as being populated by Illyrians and Thracians. Aristotle described God (no ‘s’) as the first mover, the first cause. Could it be that one of the great minds of the Ancient Period was influenced by a well established body of thought on the subject to the north of Athens?

                              How is it that the ethnicity of the father of scientific classification came to be misclassified by Western researchers? What knowledge and whose knowledge did the libraries of Pella hold?

                              Comment

                              • Pelister
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 2742

                                Interesting cultural connection.

                                Its a pretty well established fact that the Getae were a Thracian tribe of old.

                                The Chronicles of Marcellinus

                                Mundo, the Master of Illyrian Soldiery, was the first Roman general to set upon the Getae who had previously been traversing Illyricum and put them to flight, after quite a few of them had been killed (530) "...dudum Getis Illyricum..."
                                The translation uses the term "Goth" instead of "Getae".

                                But clearly,

                                Getis
                                Getae
                                Getam

                                Refer to "Getae", even though the translater choses to use the term 'Goths'.

                                This invasion (517) by what Marcellinus calls "Getae" probably involved Sclavini, who had begun to launch attacks through Roman territory
                                The Chronicle of Marcellinus, p.121

                                The Getae are considered to be "Sclavenoi" by Vasiliev (1950) p.308, by Bury (1923) p.436, and "Antae" by Stein (1949) p.105.

                                Could a closer look at the Thracian language reveal to us what the language of the Sclavenoi, actually was??

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