The Percentages Agreement

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  • Risto the Great
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 15660

    The Percentages Agreement





    The percentages agreement was an agreement between Joseph Stalin and Winston Churchill about how to divide south eastern Europe in spheres of influence. The draft document, intercepted in 1943, fell into the hands of Francisco Franco's secret service and was mentioned by General Jordana, in a famous speech he gave in April 1943 in Barcelona . On October 9, 1944 Churchill and Stalin met at the Moscow Conference and Churchill suggested that the Soviet Union should have 90 percent influence in Romania and 75 percent in Bulgaria; the United Kingdom should have 90 percent in Greece; in Hungary and Yugoslavia, Churchill suggested that they should have 50 percent each. Churchill wrote it on a piece of paper which he pushed across to Stalin, who ticked it off and passed it back.

    "Might it not be thought rather cynical if it seemed we had disposed of these issues so fateful to millions of people, in such an offhand manner? Let us burn the paper", said Churchill.

    "No, you keep it", replied Stalin.

    The two foreign ministers, Anthony Eden and Vyacheslav Molotov, negotiated about the percentage shares on October 10 and 11. The result of these discussions was that the percentages of Soviet influence in Bulgaria and, more significantly, Hungary were amended to 80 percent - apart from that, no other countries were mentioned.

    Historian Gabriel Kolko has noted that, "There is little significance to the memorable and dramatic passage in Churchill's autobiography recalling how he and Stalin divided Eastern Europe":

    “ Stalin's "tick," translated into real words, indicated nothing whatsoever. The very next day Churchill sent Stalin a draft of the discussion, and the Russian carefully struck out phrases implying the creation of spheres of influence, a fact Churchill excluded from his memoirs. Eden assiduously avoided the term, and considered the understanding merely as a practical agreement on how problems would be worked out in each country, and the very next day he and Molotov modified the percentages in a manner which Eden assumed was general rather than precise. ”

    Stalin kept to his promise about Greece. Britain supported the Greek government forces in the civil war but the Soviet Union did not assist the communist partisans.
    So ... was it worth the paper it was allegedly scratched out on?

    Further, anyone care to imagine where the ticks are nowadays and who is doing the ticking in relation to Macedonia?
    Risto the Great
    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com
  • TrueMacedonian
    Banned
    • Jan 2009
    • 3823

    #2
    Wow. This is how they do it. Scribbling numbers and percentages on one single sheet of paper to determine the outcome of millions of peoples lives. It's really maddening when you think about how destiny is created by certain figures.

    Comment

    • Makedonetz
      Senior Member
      • Apr 2010
      • 1080

      #3
      Thats insane they would disect europe in this manner. Very good find Risto may i ask where you find these unbelievable information such as this.
      Makedoncite se borat
      za svoite pravdini!

      "The one who works for joining of Macedonia to Bulgaria,Greece or Serbia can consider himself as a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but not a good Macedonian"
      - Goce Delchev

      Comment

      • Risto the Great
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 15660

        #4
        Originally posted by TrueMacedonian View Post
        Wow. This is how they do it. Scribbling numbers and percentages on one single sheet of paper to determine the outcome of millions of peoples lives. It's really maddening when you think about how destiny is created by certain figures.
        Maddening is an understatement. The notion that a country's sovereignty is there to be abused in such a nonchalant manner defies belief.

        I saw this briefly referred to in a book I am reading at the moment but wanted to confirm its veracity.
        Risto the Great
        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

        Comment

        • Bratot
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 2855

          #5
          This is very practical example and it will certainly be useful, thanks Risto.
          The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

          Comment

          • Onur
            Senior Member
            • Apr 2010
            • 2389

            #6
            Originally posted by TrueMacedonian View Post
            Wow. This is how they do it. Scribbling numbers and percentages on one single sheet of paper to determine the outcome of millions of peoples lives. It's really maddening when you think about how destiny is created by certain figures.

            Yes ofc. They did same on whole middle-east and Arab countries after WW-1. The borders of several artificial countries in current middle-east and Arabia has been drawn by the British and French spies.


            Check these ironic quotes about it;
            ...As former director of the Israeli intelligence agency Mossad, Efraim Halevy, now a director at the Hebrew University said;
            “The borders, which if you look on the maps of the middle-east are very straight lines, were drawn by British and French draftsmen who sat with maps and drew the lines of the frontiers with rulers. If the ruler for some reason or other moved on the map, because of some person's hand shaking, then the frontier moved (with the hand).[4]”

            He went on to give an example;
            “There was a famous story about a British consul, a lady named Gertrude Bell who drew the map between Iraq and Jordan, using transparent paper. She turned to talk to somebody and as she was turning the paper moved and the ruler moved and that added considerable territory to the (new) Jordanians.[5]”

            Historian Jim Crow, of Newcastle University, has said;
            “Without that imperial carve-up, Iraq would not be in the state it is in today...Gertrude Bell was one of two or three Britons who were instrumental in the creation of the Arab states in the Middle East that were favourable to Britain.[6]"

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_World




            They also "announced!" the new borders of Turkey at 1919 but they failed to realize it;

            Turkey was practically their sole failure at WW-1.


            This is called imperialism as ruthless as possible.
            Last edited by Onur; 07-13-2010, 07:14 AM.

            Comment

            • Bratot
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 2855

              #7


              Stalin kept to his promise about Greece. Britain supported the Greek government forces in the civil war but the Soviet Union did not assist the communist partisans.

              P. M. H. Bell, The World Since 1945: An International History (2001), ISBN 0340662352
              The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

              Comment

              • TrueMacedonian
                Banned
                • Jan 2009
                • 3823

                #8
                Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                Maddening is an understatement. The notion that a country's sovereignty is there to be abused in such a nonchalant manner defies belief.

                I saw this briefly referred to in a book I am reading at the moment but wanted to confirm its veracity.
                What book are you reading Risto?

                Comment

                • osiris
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 1969

                  #9
                  its true rtg the machinations between stalin and churchill have been at the core of the macedonian problem

                  Comment

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