Goce Delchev's legacy

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  • aleksandrov
    Member
    • Feb 2010
    • 558

    #31
    Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post

    What exactly did Delcev mean by a “revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people”?

    This is probably best answered by looking at how the Macedonians were enslaved. Certainly, the Macedonians were enslaved in the traditional sense, having lost, amongst other freedoms, their political freedom under Ottoman rule. However, and more importantly, I think what Delcev was getting to was that they were intellectually enslaved. They had been downtrodden and taught to believe that they were somehow subhuman, that they, unlike other peoples, could not make it alone as masters of their own land and that they needed a ‘big brother’ or ‘master’ to protect and guide them.

    This is why Delcev called on the Macedonians to first free themselves from their framework of thinking, from their current beliefs and opinions of themselves and the world around them. How could they free themselves from foreign oppressors and why would they even risk their lives if they did not believe in their own abilities or did not believe that they COULD and SHOULD live as free people.

    A similar point was made by John Adams over a century before:

    “The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations. This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people, was the real American Revolution.”...
    It should be noted that Delchev was a keen student of the history of other revolutionary movements and liberation philosophy from around the world, which undoubtedly shaped his own convictions.

    Here's a quote from another American libertarian thinker (he happened to have been born in the same year as Delchev, but lived about 58 years longer), which is consistent with Delchev's view on moral slavery and the need for a moral revolution:

    Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it. Learned Hand

    Hand was a US Court of Appeals judge who is said to have been quoted more often than any other lower-court judge by legal scholars and by the Supreme Court of the United States. Although he probably wasn't a direct influence on Delchev, he appears to have been influenced by a similar school of thought about liberty.

    Here's a quote with a similar message by Martin Luther King Jr:

    "A man can't ride you unless your back is bent."
    Last edited by aleksandrov; 05-26-2010, 09:15 AM.
    All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer

    https://www.facebook.com/igor.a.aleksandrov?ref=tn_tnmn

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    • Makedonetz
      Senior Member
      • Apr 2010
      • 1080

      #32
      Makedoncite se borat
      za svoite pravdini!

      "The one who works for joining of Macedonia to Bulgaria,Greece or Serbia can consider himself as a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but not a good Macedonian"
      - Goce Delchev

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      • Mastika
        Member
        • Feb 2010
        • 503

        #33
        Goce Delcev gave hope to all of those who thought that they had lost all hope.

        Comment

        • Piperka
          Junior Member
          • Feb 2010
          • 33

          #34
          This is a great thread.

          Comment

          • Makedonetz
            Senior Member
            • Apr 2010
            • 1080

            #35
            Interesting if Delchev has and decendents alive still to keep his revolutionary perspectives alive!
            Makedoncite se borat
            za svoite pravdini!

            "The one who works for joining of Macedonia to Bulgaria,Greece or Serbia can consider himself as a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but not a good Macedonian"
            - Goce Delchev

            Comment

            • aleksandrov
              Member
              • Feb 2010
              • 558

              #36
              All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer

              https://www.facebook.com/igor.a.aleksandrov?ref=tn_tnmn

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              • TrueMacedonian
                Senior Member
                • Jan 2009
                • 3820

                #37
                "This people must be roused from the five-century-old sleep that has made the Macedonian rather thick on the subject of human rights. And, if not the whole people, then at least part of it; and then, instead of Mr. Chakurov looking for forty men, four hundred would be looking for him, to put themselves under his banner. If this doesn't happen, and a rising is proclaimed, it will be tragic for the people, and woe betide the person responsible. It is tragic because the youngest forces will be lost to no purpose (some in prison, others on the gallows), innocent Macedonian women will be abandoned to the bestial and cruel passions of savages, and, finally, children of five and old men of seventy will be abandoned to the yataghans of Asiatics, and for all this the person responsible will be answerable to his own conscience, and to the people and to history. Is the Kyustendil Committee of the same mind as Chakurov? I am addressing myself to you as well, because, according to Chakurov's statements, he was sent by your committe (and, in addition, he told other people that he was sent by the chief one) He came over to proclaim a rising - and with whom, and with what?! With 30 guns, seven bombs, and three boxes of dynamite! Did his Lordship - in the event of his finding 40 people and carrying out his task - think about the consequences? Did those who sent him foresee that they would be spattered, if not drowned, in the blood of their enslaved brothers? What kind of witticism is this? What kind of idea for liberation? One man with forty people to proclaim a rising!...What kind of a plan is this?Can it be that some Bulgarian Odysseus has been born? Or are we to deceive one another, to deceive the ordinary people until they despair and lose the people's confidence? Did His Grace believe his own words, what he said verbally and in letters to G Ivanov: "I'll raise an internal rebellion, and as soon as the banner is unfurled, then Russia, Oh glorious Russia, will fly into Macedonia on the spot, and there you are - we are free"??!! Is that what he thinks, is that what you think and finally, is that how we have to educated the rebels? If you feel the rebels with such empty hopes, then you must realize that even the most outstanding hero will at times fall into utter despair. No, lies don't help at all - especially not this one. Try to root out this weakness (this waiting for help from the Russian tyrant) from even the most deluded coward, then in its place the unconquerable power of self reliance and resolve will be reborn, and then, believe me, every single person will fight to the finish with the greatest eagerness. Work, work, gentlemen, only let it be a little more in line with common sense."

                (Gotse Delchev, in a letter dated October 17, 1895)
                Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

                Comment

                • Silver
                  Junior Member
                  • Sep 2009
                  • 85

                  #38
                  Absolutely, Gotse Delchev's words are as relevant and universal today as they ever were. Aleksandrov has tried very hard to explain the difference in context of what Gotse's remarks to the diaspora of his time emanating from Sofia were in comparison with what we now have in today's modern diaspora. Bluntly speaking the Sofia based 'Supremists' were Bulgaromani, and although the internal group was dependent on them for support and weaponry they had to maneuver themselves away from the external group's ultimate intentions. The complexities for the Internal Macedonian Leadership were very wide spread at the time and the treachery intense. Most if not all of them ended up paying with their lives thanks to those in Sofia. In fact the revolution in 1903 was intentionally started prematurely by the diaspora against Gotse Delchev's and Dame Gruev's wishes and with the ultimate intention of destroying the Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization! These facts are well known and there is no point anymore being bogged down arguing apples and oranges. You are right Aleksandrov.

                  Whether we're born in Macedonia, if we live there or not, if we love our parents, our family who do live there, our ancestors, and the land we originate from then we are a source of strength, confidence and wealth for Macedonia. That's the way it should be and that's the way it is. Only the shpioni, and the deeply and forever confused gerkoman types are useless for Macedonia. Furthermore, it makes no difference whether in the diaspora or in Macedonia, the attitude towards what we can and what we cannot achieve as a people remain the same. You hear too often from Macedonians in the diaspora certain phrases born from generations of slavery such as 'we can't' or 'that will never happen'. Well for us to apply what Gotse Delchev is saying and to put an end to servitude we need to remove permanently from our vocabulary these bloody phrases and believe that we can and we will. Freedom, self determination and recognition of our culture and heritage will happen through determination. Then we'll move to implement immense change with so much inertia nothing or no one will be able to stop it. So gospo napred.

                  Comment

                  • aleksandrov
                    Member
                    • Feb 2010
                    • 558

                    #39
                    Originally posted by Silver View Post
                    ...You hear too often from Macedonians in the diaspora certain phrases born from generations of slavery such as 'we can't' or 'that will never happen'....
                    These almost standardized responses to any suggestion that we should assert our rights and seek justice are the clearest evidence of the continuing predominance of the centuries-old slave mentality that Delchev was dedicated to rooting out. They are common among 'mainstream' Macedonians everywhere i.e. not only in the Diaspora. If you are among the Macedonians who rejects that defeatist attitude, you are likely to be labelled as an extremist, a 'dreamer' or somebody who doesn't know "what it's like to be in our position".
                    All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer

                    https://www.facebook.com/igor.a.aleksandrov?ref=tn_tnmn

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                    • iskra
                      Junior Member
                      • Jun 2010
                      • 59

                      #40
                      This is a famous one: "Ослободувањето на Македонија се крие во внатрешното востание. Кој мисли инаку да се ослободи Македонија, тој се лаже и себеси и другите." / - Цитат од писмо на Гоце Делчев до Ефрем Каранов од 17 октомври 1895 година

                      "The liberation of Macedonia lies in an internal uprising. Whoever believes that Macedonia can be liberated otherwise, is lying to oneself and the others."

                      October 1895.
                      Last edited by iskra; 06-08-2010, 01:03 AM.

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                      • aleksandrov
                        Member
                        • Feb 2010
                        • 558

                        #41
                        “Ovchka glavo, zapomni deka pred onie na koi im ja dolzhish mozhnosta da go napishesh svoeto ime chovek, treba da stoish bez kapa i koga gi pcuesh.” Goce Delchev

                        "Sheep-head, remember that before those to whom you owe the opportunity to call yourself a human being, you must stand with your hat off even when you are cursing them." Goce Delchev

                        This one seems tailor-made for those who think that Macedonians should allow unjust politicians from the so-called 'international community' to participate in setting terms for how the Macedonian nation will identify itself, which are not consistent with internationally codified human rights standards that are equally applicable to other nations.
                        All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer

                        https://www.facebook.com/igor.a.aleksandrov?ref=tn_tnmn

                        Comment

                        • larryp7639
                          Junior Member
                          • Jul 2010
                          • 1

                          #42
                          Originally posted by aleksandrov View Post
                          I am starting this thread at the suggestion of fellow forum members who thought that it worthwhile to have a thread dedicated to Goce Delchev quotes. Apart from quotes, I invite people to post any other material that might encourage a deeper understanding of what Goce Delchev was about than the relatively superficial perceptions generated by official state institutions and their conformists.

                          To give the thread a sense of direction and make it more than a history thread, I think we should focus on material that is indicative of how Delchev might address the trials and tribulations facing the Macedonian people today. I also suggest sticking to the Latin alphabet, for the benefit of those Macedonians (particularly those originating from the Aegean region) who have not had the opportunity to study and become accustomed to the Cyrillic alphabet.

                          I'll start with a quote that I think best summarizes what he viewed as his most fundamental cause:

                          "Moralnata revolucija – revolucijata vo umot, srceto i dushata na eden ropski narod, e najgolemata zadacha." Goce Delchev vo okruzhno pismo od 8-14 Mart 1901. (Hristo Andonov Poljanski, Goce Delchev - Kon osumdesetgodishninata od zaginuvanjeto na Goce Delchev, Istarska Naklada, Pula 1985, p. 206)

                          "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."
                          Thanks you for the post.


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                          • George S.
                            Senior Member
                            • Aug 2009
                            • 10116

                            #43
                            It's very good to quote Gotse Delcev & he was a very well educated person.But how many people today follow those high morals & ideals.When there is so much disagreement & discencion in Macedonia today(.Namely the name of Macedonia )If people followed these morals & ideals i'm sure that we would be for the better.I think that it was good to bring them up & to explain it to the readers.
                            "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                            GOTSE DELCEV

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                            • Soldier of Macedon
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 13675

                              #44
                              Originally posted by Pavel
                              i suppose one way of using this today would be for us in the diaspora to measure our comments towards macedonians in macedonia a little better than we sometimes do.
                              While generalisations may cause 'innocent' parties unfounded grief, so too does it allow 'guilty' parties a path to evade the comments and criticisms rightfully directed towards them. I therefore disagree with your above statement, for, so long as the comments and criticisms are specifically directed to the appropriate person(s) or group(s), then they should be forthcoming, irrespective of the place of origin for both sender or recipient.
                              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                              Comment

                              • Soldier of Macedon
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 13675

                                #45
                                Here is an apparent conversation from February 1896 between Goce Delchev and Danail Nikolaev, a general from the Vrhovist wing, as described in Krum Hristov's "Goce Delchev - Izdatelstvo na Nacionaliya suvet na Otechestveniya front, Sofia, 1955".

                                General Nikolaev: So, you, young man, consider that the Macedonian population is capable to fight, to make a revolution? Childish of you, young man! That is a slave population out there! Your plans I cannot accept, and I do not want to hear them. What kind of Organization you think you are creating there? Revolutionary? Internal? Macedonian? Nonsense! Nonsense! Nonsense! There is only one organization - that is the Supreme Committee. I guarantee, that, when the time is right, I will lead 20-30 thousands of reservist soldiers. The officers are with me. Then we will make a revolution in Macedonia, and we will set it free. Nothing can be done seriously with villagers. They are slaves.........(interrupted in the original)
                                Goce Delchev: They were slaves, mister General, but not anymore. So you are giving up from all the revolutionary work in the inside? According to you.........(interrupted in the original)
                                General Nikolaev: No, I will not give up, but under certain conditions. The revolutionary work in the inside is important for us, the Supreme Committee. It helps us scare the politicians in Bulgaria, as well the foreign diplomats, everytime there is a need for that. That's why we can provide help, but under one condition: you will listen to us and you will not take any actions out of the Ottoman Empire. You will leave us to carry all the necessary politics. When it comes to your work in the inside we will tell you when, where and what will you do. Moreover, we will decide when the uprising in Macedonia should be proclaimed. Besides that......we.......(interrupted in the original)
                                Goce Delchev: That cannot be, mister General. You, - that is the Supreme Committee and someone else.......(interrupted in the original) No, we do not agree with your plans regarding Macedonia. We, you know who we are: the villagers, the Macedonian population, the people.
                                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

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