Goce Delchev's legacy

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  • aleksandrov
    Member
    • Feb 2010
    • 558

    Goce Delchev's legacy

    I am starting this thread at the suggestion of fellow forum members who thought that it worthwhile to have a thread dedicated to Goce Delchev quotes. Apart from quotes, I invite people to post any other material that might encourage a deeper understanding of what Goce Delchev was about than the relatively superficial perceptions generated by official state institutions and their conformists.

    To give the thread a sense of direction and make it more than a history thread, I think we should focus on material that is indicative of how Delchev might address the trials and tribulations facing the Macedonian people today. I also suggest sticking to the Latin alphabet, for the benefit of those Macedonians (particularly those originating from the Aegean region) who have not had the opportunity to study and become accustomed to the Cyrillic alphabet.

    I'll start with a quote that I think best summarizes what he viewed as his most fundamental cause:

    "Moralnata revolucija – revolucijata vo umot, srceto i dushata na eden ropski narod, e najgolemata zadacha." Goce Delchev vo okruzhno pismo od 8-14 Mart 1901. (Hristo Andonov Poljanski, Goce Delchev - Kon osumdesetgodishninata od zaginuvanjeto na Goce Delchev, Istarska Naklada, Pula 1985, p. 206)

    "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."
    All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer

    https://www.facebook.com/igor.a.aleksandrov?ref=tn_tnmn
  • Vangelovski
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 8532

    #2
    Firstly, can we make this a sticky?

    Secondly, I want to start building up an deeper understanding of the quote that Aleksandrov just posted.

    "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."

    Probably one of the best quotes to start with – Delcev’s very own definition of the cause. Though, many have trouble understanding it and therefore over look its value and significance not only to the Macedonians of the time but to us here and now.

    What exactly did Delcev mean by a “revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people”?

    This is probably best answered by looking at how the Macedonians were enslaved. Certainly, the Macedonians were enslaved in the traditional sense, having lost, amongst other freedoms, their political freedom under Ottoman rule. However, and more importantly, I think what Delcev was getting to was that they were intellectually enslaved. They had been downtrodden and taught to believe that they were somehow subhuman, that they, unlike other peoples, could not make it alone as masters of their own land and that they needed a ‘big brother’ or ‘master’ to protect and guide them.

    This is why Delcev called on the Macedonians to first free themselves from their framework of thinking, from their current beliefs and opinions of themselves and the world around them. How could they free themselves from foreign oppressors and why would they even risk their lives if they did not believe in their own abilities or did not believe that they COULD and SHOULD live as free people.

    A similar point was made by John Adams over a century before:

    “The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations. This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people, was the real American Revolution.”

    If like many Macedonians today, and in Delcev’s time, we accept “realities” such as the Interim Accord or the Framework Agreement, and we can’t think outside of our little box, then we will forever remain subdued and serve foreign interests. Delcev called on the Macedonians to break out of their little box and think outside of it – to think like every other free people – and this call is just as significant and important right now.

    How many times have we seen someone say “I support a free Macedonia, but we have to accept the reality of this and that”. That is the enslavement that Delcev struggled against. A person supposedly supporting a free Macedonia, but then making up excuses as to why it is not possible. There are no excuses, just small-mindedness and fear.
    Last edited by Vangelovski; 05-22-2010, 05:01 AM.
    If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

    The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

    Comment

    • blackcactus
      Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 242

      #3
      Thanks aleksandrov for starting this thread, I think it's a great idea to look to our past heroes for inspiration and guidance

      Vangelovski nice post mate, well done on the explanation, I personally found that quite insightful
      The one who tells the story rules the World - Hopi proverb

      “Your highness, when I said that you are like a stream of bat's piss, I only meant that you shine out like a shaft of gold when all around is dark” - Monty Python

      Comment

      • aleksandrov
        Member
        • Feb 2010
        • 558

        #4
        Good elaboration on the concept of moral enslavement, Tom.

        Here's another quote that addresses it:

        "Grizhete se da ja iskorenite taa slabost [chekanata pomosh odnadvor] i od najzabludeniot strashlivec, pa namesto toa, neka se rodi nepobedlivata sila na samodejnosta i reshitelnosta i togash veruvajte, sekoj eden kje se bori dokraj so najgolema zhestokost...." Goce Delchev, 17 Oktomvri 1895

        "Take care to root out that weakness [the expectation of foreign help] even from the most deluded coward, and instead of that, let there be born the unbeatable power of self-reliance and decisiveness, and then, rest assured, everyone will fight to the end most vehemently..."
        All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer

        https://www.facebook.com/igor.a.aleksandrov?ref=tn_tnmn

        Comment

        • julie
          Senior Member
          • May 2009
          • 3869

          #5
          Vangelovski, your intrepretation in the translation is wonderfully done
          "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

          Comment

          • aleksandrov
            Member
            • Feb 2010
            • 558

            #6
            It should be noted concisely that a central element of moral slavery is the cowardly opportunism and irrational tendency to be governed by fear. Think about whether the Nazis could have kept as many Jews as they did in concentration camps, for as long as they did, and to murder as many of them as they did, were it not for those Jews that helped them run the concentration camps and send fellow Jews to the gas chambers, in the largely irrational hope that they will thereby escape death themselves. Could the Holocaust have occurred as we know it if a vast majority of Jews lived their lives by the "liberty or death" principle? While some may misconceive the "liberty or death" moto as being suicidal, I would argue that, in given circumstances, it can reduce the loss of life, and particularly the loss of life that's worth living.

            The active and passive acceptance by the majority of citizens of the Republic of Macedonia of foreign dictates, including self-destructive acts of capitulation like the Interim Accord and the Framework Agreement, is a clear demonstration of the irrational tendency to be governed by fear. The tendency of mainstream Macedonian political parties to compete for vassal government power by trying to impress "Western' masters and outdo each other in appeasing Greece or Albanian racist separatists is analogous to Jews helping the Nazis govern concentration camps and send their fellow Jews to the gas chambers.
            Last edited by aleksandrov; 05-22-2010, 06:20 AM.
            All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer

            https://www.facebook.com/igor.a.aleksandrov?ref=tn_tnmn

            Comment

            • julie
              Senior Member
              • May 2009
              • 3869

              #7
              aleksandrov, some did live by that motto, have you seen the movie Defiance?
              Not many could have done that and survived.
              "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

              Comment

              • aleksandrov
                Member
                • Feb 2010
                • 558

                #8
                Originally posted by julie View Post
                aleksandrov, some did live by that motto, have you seen the movie Defiance?
                Not many could have done that and survived.
                i know that some did, but the majority did not. If a majority lived by that motto, the Holocaust might never have occurred, at least not with such a huge scope and scale. Given the ratio of Nazi guards to Jewish prisoners in the concentration camps, how long do you think they could have kept the prisoners in there if a majority of them lived by that motto?

                I've seen Defiance. It's a good film, but an even more relevant one for the point I am trying to make is "Uprising".
                All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer

                https://www.facebook.com/igor.a.aleksandrov?ref=tn_tnmn

                Comment

                • julie
                  Senior Member
                  • May 2009
                  • 3869

                  #9
                  I dont disagree with you, I cannot stand human suffering in any way shape or form particularly when the decisionmakers are never accountable and enjoy the benefits of human losses for their stupid farked up ego and gain in this world
                  "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

                  Comment

                  • Risto the Great
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 15659

                    #10
                    An excellent initiative.
                    Vangelovski offered an excellent insight.
                    I do not think we should underestimate the significance of the "moral" aspect of this quote;

                    Definition of "moral"
                    1. Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character: moral scrutiny; a moral quandary.
                    2. Teaching or exhibiting goodness or correctness of character and behavior: a moral lesson.
                    3. Conforming to standards of what is right or just in behavior; virtuous: a moral life.
                    4. Arising from conscience or the sense of right and wrong: a moral obligation.
                    5. Having psychological rather than physical or tangible effects: a moral victory; moral support.
                    6. Based on strong likelihood or firm conviction, rather than on the actual evidence: a moral certainty.
                    By referring to the morality of this kind of revolution, I believe Delchev was stressing its fundamental aspect namely a revolution of the mind. A clever Macedonian man who many choose to ignore to this day.

                    We should thank his mother and father:
                    Sultana Delcheva


                    Nikola Delchev
                    Risto the Great
                    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                    Comment

                    • aleksandrov
                      Member
                      • Feb 2010
                      • 558

                      #11
                      Delchev defines what he means by "moral" revolution in the quote itself as a "revolution of the mind, heart and soul [which might also be translated as spirit]". He is referring to both intellect and character.
                      All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer

                      https://www.facebook.com/igor.a.aleksandrov?ref=tn_tnmn

                      Comment

                      • Pavel
                        Member
                        • Oct 2009
                        • 155

                        #12
                        delchev often talked about the importance of the revolution (first the moral and then the physical practical) occurring inside Macedonia, among the people who actually live inside macedonia. this was in the context of trying to stop the interference of foreign governments and also of diaspora groups located in sofia, belgrade and athens. one of the premises was in other words that the you can't make a revolution from outside. true victory could only be attained by living among the people in macedonia because that would demonstrate that you are serious by the fact that you are prepared to share their difficulties and their plight etc.

                        some historians have pointed out how imro lost credibility in the eyes of the people after the ilinden uprising because many of imro's leaders did not remain in macedonia to face the horrific aftermath, but instead ran off to comfort in bulgaria etc.

                        as someone who lives in the diaspora among many others from the diaspora on this forum, i often find myself wondering whether or not we are sometimes too harsh on those in macedonia from our comparatively comfortable homes here in the "west".

                        how many of us who are urging macedonians in macedonia to be tougher and more vigilant and i have even seen some people here say things like for them to be prepared to fight a war; would be willing to live in macedonia so that they could show that they are prepared to live in their conditions and take whatever comes? how many of us here were willing to go fight 10 years ago?

                        how many of us are willing to take up delchev's advice on the internal (vnatreshna) revolution? is his point valid today?
                        Last edited by Pavel; 05-23-2010, 06:32 AM.

                        Comment

                        • Risto the Great
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 15659

                          #13
                          Pavle, his point is equally valid today as it was 100 years ago.
                          Nobody is asking Macedonian inside Macedonia to go to war. Pleading and encouraging them to embrace a revolution in mindset is all that is necessary. Surely we have enough examples now to make the case clear. All the EU member states are still defined by their previous identities, the small time lazy Greeks, the rich Germans etc. Nothing has changed other than the diminished sovereignty for all of the member countries. Why can't Macedonians assess all options with new eyes?

                          Only as recently as last week was the 2001 conflict openly described as "war" by international courts. I remember back in 2001. It was not "sold" as a war back then. It was a few naughty ethnic Albanians that needed to be sorted out. It is a difficult example to work with.
                          Risto the Great
                          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                          Comment

                          • Pavel
                            Member
                            • Oct 2009
                            • 155

                            #14
                            "Why can't Macedonians assess all options with new eyes?" Risto, that is a very good question, I don't know the answer. however, delchev's point was that if somebody wants to contribute to the moral revolution of macedonians, so that they begin looking at options with new eyes, then they need to go and do it inside macedonia. it is from there that they will be taken seriously; it is by living in macedonia that they will truly understand the mindset of the average macedonian and be in a real position to influence it on a day to day basis. this was delchev's point and if it is valid today, then many of us who are concerned, might need to think about relocating....maybe....

                            i have to confess that i am not prepared to do that, but then i am more measured in my criticism of the macedonians in macedonia than others here. i save my real fire for the countries and institutions that are trying to destroy macedonia...grease, vulgaria, eu, un, usa etc. this does not mean that we shouldn't criticise poor decisions made by macedonians too; but like i said sometimes the ferocity of it makes me wonder about what delchev said. you know, if you really want to make a difference over there, then you need to be there....

                            i know Risto that you have not said anything about being ready to fight a war, but others here have...are they prepared to take delchev's advice?
                            Last edited by Pavel; 05-23-2010, 07:39 AM.

                            Comment

                            • aleksandrov
                              Member
                              • Feb 2010
                              • 558

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Pavel View Post
                              delchev often talked about the importance of the revolution (first the moral and then the physical practical) occurring inside Macedonia, among the people who actually live inside macedonia. this was in the context of trying to stop the interference of foreign governments and also of diaspora groups located in sofia, belgrade and athens. one of the premises was in other words that the you can't make a revolution from outside. true victory could only be attained by living among the people in macedonia because that would demonstrate that you are serious by the fact that you are prepared to share their difficulties and their plight etc.

                              some historians have pointed out how imro lost credibility in the eyes of the people after the ilinden uprising because many of imro's leaders did not remain in macedonia to face the horrific aftermath, but instead ran off to comfort in bulgaria etc.

                              as someone who lives in the diaspora among many others from the diaspora on this forum, i often find myself wondering whether or not we are sometimes too harsh on those in macedonia from our comparatively comfortable homes here in the "west".

                              how many of us who are urging macedonians in macedonia to be tougher and more vigilant and i have even seen some people here say things like for them to be prepared to fight a war; would be willing to live in macedonia so that they could show that they are prepared to live in their conditions and take whatever comes? how many of us here were willing to go fight 10 years ago?

                              how many of us are willing to take up delchev's advice on the internal (vnatreshna) revolution? is is his point valid today?
                              The focus on the INTERNAL revolution was a based on his belief that without self-reliance people will just swap one slavery for another. He makes this more clear in other quotes that I will post later, as well as one that I have already posted on page one of this thread:

                              "Grizhete se da ja iskorenite taa slabost [chekanata pomosh odnadvor] i od najzabludeniot strashlivec, pa namesto toa, neka se rodi nepobedlivata sila na samodejnosta i reshitelnosta i togash veruvajte, sekoj eden kje se bori dokraj so najgolema zhestokost...." Goce Delchev, 17 Oktomvri 1895

                              "Take care to root out that weakness [the expectation of foreign help] even from the most deluded coward, and instead of that, let there be born the unbeatable power of self-reliance and decisiveness, and then, rest assured, everyone will fight to the end most vehemently..."

                              He held and preached the same convictions when he was himself working for the cause from the Diaspora i.e. from Bulgaria.

                              I don't see much criticism of Macedonians in Macedonia who are trying to be self-reliant. Most criticisms are directed at those who continue to live as moral slaves, on the false promises and false hopes of foreign protection, assistance and blessings.
                              Last edited by aleksandrov; 05-23-2010, 04:56 AM.
                              All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer

                              https://www.facebook.com/igor.a.aleksandrov?ref=tn_tnmn

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