The Miladinov Brothers & Macedonian Literature - 19th Century

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  • Soldier of Macedon
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 13675

    #16
    My family doesn't use Lepa for 'beautiful', except on some very rare occasions, but I know others from Bitola that do, and I also know a lady called Lepa, so I doubt it is a borrowing from elsewhere, just a word that has largely fallen out of use in many parts. Having said that, in my dialect it is almost exclusively Uba for 'beautiful', so instead of Mnogu ubava e we would say Nogu uba e.

    In the Miladinov texts, both variants are used, and apart from the few obvious Turkisms that were dropped as the Ottoman era disappeared, the below text is easily identifiable as Macedonian.



    Momchitse belo! dali bi me zelo?
    Zelo bi te zelo, maika ne me davat,
    Zashto kukya nemash, kukya chardakliya,
    Kukya chardakliya s dzhamoi i pendzheri.
    Momchitse milo! beli pari imam,
    Kukya ke napra'am s dzhamoi i pendzheri.




    The Macedonian dialect used in the Abecedar from the 1920's, which is 60 years after the Miladinov period, differs little from the above.




    Here is the equivalent in literary Macedonian, just to highlight how close the dialects are and how insignificant most variations are.

    Site lugye imaat edna glava, dve race, dve nodze.
    Glavata gore ima kosa, i napred ima dve ochi, eden nos i edna usta.
    Ustata vnatre ima zabi i eden yazik.
    Zabite se beli, yazikot e tsrven.
    So ustata yadime, pieme i zboruvame.
    So ratsete rabotime, so nodzete odime, trchame i ripame.
    Yas trcham brzo i ripam mnogu visoko.



    Our language exists as a natural evolution of the native tongue in Macedonia.
    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

    Comment

    • Diabolical
      Member
      • Jan 2009
      • 50

      #17
      Zbornikot na Brakjata Miladinovci



      Is there anywhere I can upload it so it sticks around longer? this link becomes defunct after 10 downloads

      Comment

      • makedonin
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 1668

        #18
        Некој литературни работи за Македонскиот Јазик
        To enquire after the impression behind an idea is the way to remove disputes concerning nature and reality.

        Comment

        • Risto the Great
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 15660

          #19
          Brzo ili Brgo SoM?
          We use both.

          "Lepa" is really quite interesting. The Serbs still use it. I have not heard Macedonians use it. Yet there it is. I feel it is quite natural for all our neighbours to share words and am justified in believing the direction of words is more likely from us to them.

          I am going to be quite controversial and say that even the Abecedar does not completely represent my Egejsko dialects. We would never have said "jazik" ... it is "ezik"
          Usta = mutska (have heard Egejci say usta though)
          Kosie = kosa
          Set = se (looks like a typo to me)

          So, it makes me wonder who wrote the Abecedar and how they arrived at their version of the best representation of the dialects. Having said this, I will accept it in its present form so that Greece can commence in honouringg its treaties with it.
          Risto the Great
          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

          Comment

          • Risto the Great
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 15660

            #20
            Zashcho = my dialect and Bulgarians can kiss my arse if they think they are the only ones who speak like that. Misirkov would agree with me.
            Risto the Great
            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

            Comment

            • Risto the Great
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 15660

              #21
              Originally posted by makedonin View Post
              Некој литературни работи за Македонскиот Јазик
              http://damj.manu.edu.mk/materijali.html
              A really important link Makedonin that should get some prominence here and everywhere else!
              Risto the Great
              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

              Comment

              • makedonin
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 1668

                #22
                From the Miladinovci Zbornik from

                П Р Е Д А Н И Ј А

                Цар Александр. Цар Александр сакаше да ходит да земит безсмртна вода. Но кој одеше никој не сe врашташе назад; зашто дури да стигнит некој до неа, требеше да п'туват три дни все во ношна темнина, во која љуѓето се заскитвеха, и не можеха да се вратат на бел ден. Цар Александр зеде со себе си кобили и ждребина.
                Во темнината врза кобила; и в растојање, што можит да се чует гласот, врза ждребе; потамо кобила, после ждребе, и така подалеку дури стигна до безсмртната вода, која стоеше меѓу две планини, кои се отвораха и затвораха. Тој со голема брзина нацрпи
                едно шише,*) и пo гласовите от кобилите и ждребината, кои 'ржеха, нахожвеше п'тот, и така се врати на бел ден. Шишето остави на прозорецот за да се напиет утрината во недеља; и нар'ча на сестра му, да вардит, да не некако истурит беземртната вода. Сестра му**) метештем не догледа, и скрши шишето. Цар Александр кога чу това, страшно се наљути; а сестра му избегвеештем љутината негова, се фрли во море и се престори делфин, кои, кога чует Александровото име, се криет в морските глобини
                Page 480


                Воден. Воден град, к'де се закопвеха македонските цареви, окрепен од природата, вељат че, во време од некоја војна, беше се презел од непријателите, после д'лго опколисвање, со помошта од козите, кои им показаха скришно п''тче, по
                кое тие обикновено се качвеха, и по кое непријателите влезоха в крепоста.
                Page 481
                To enquire after the impression behind an idea is the way to remove disputes concerning nature and reality.

                Comment

                • Risto the Great
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 15660

                  #23
                  Such rich language!
                  I need this book!
                  Risto the Great
                  MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                  "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                  Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                  Comment

                  • makedonin
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 1668

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                    A really important link Makedonin that should get some prominence here and everywhere else!
                    This one is also not bad:

                    Сајт за Македонска историја, Култура и традиции.


                    has interesting books.
                    To enquire after the impression behind an idea is the way to remove disputes concerning nature and reality.

                    Comment

                    • Soldier of Macedon
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 13675

                      #25
                      Risto,

                      Brgo/u and Brzo are both used, I think the latter is more common in literary, also depends on the context.

                      Lepa is also used by Russians to form part of another word, but still having the same meaning. If I had never read it in these texts, I would think it is a loan also, but just like the word Fala, while not overwhelmingly present it still exists in Macedonian dialects well before Serb and/or Yugoslav occupation.

                      I have heard some others from Lerinsko also use Ezik rather than Jazik, Istina rather than Vistina, which I find interesting because those variants seem to be more prevalent in the eastern Macedonian dialects.
                      Usta/Mutska = Mouth
                      Usni/Mutski = lips

                      Set is not a typo, it is a characteristic used in several dialects and by Misirkov also in words such as Mozhit, Trebit, etc, I have a relative that says 'Ne set doma' rather than 'Ne se doma'.

                      Zashcho or Zoshcho is a Macedonian characteristic (shch). In Old Slavonic it was чьто (ch'to), which evolved into што (shto) in South Slavic, while Macedonian also retained шчо (shcho) from which the шо (sho) used today comes from. It has been suggested that by using the letter щ the Miladinov brother's were intending to demonstrate that characteristic, as it is used in their native Struga also.
                      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                      Comment

                      • Risto the Great
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 15660

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                        Set is not a typo, it is a characteristic used in several dialects and by Misirkov also in words such as Mozhit, Trebit, etc, I have a relative that says 'Ne set doma' rather than 'Ne se doma'.
                        Yeah, I got that impression once I read Makedonin's subsequent text.
                        I will place my tail firmly between my legs now.

                        So much diversity in our language.
                        Risto the Great
                        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                        Comment

                        • Soldier of Macedon
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 13675

                          #27
                          I think the more distinct Macedonian characteristics such as "shch" should have been retained in the literary language.
                          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                          Comment

                          • Soldier of Macedon
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 13675

                            #28
                            Here is a sample of Misirkov's writing:

                            Македонци! време iет да се убедиме, оти лошиiот демон за Македониiа, не iет никоi друг, осим Бугариiа, ето зашчо час по скоро требит да одделиме интересите наши од бугарцките. Тоа го барат од нас благоразумiето.


                            .....пропагандите: бугарцка и србцка употребуваат сите и дозволени и недозволени стрецтва да искоренат во нашиiот народен жиот, се самобитно, се чисто македонцко.
                            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                            Comment

                            • Pelister
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 2742

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Daskalot View Post


                              Source: "Macedonia and the Macedonians: A History" by Andrew Rossos, 2008, page 84.
                              Interesting. Clearly it was in reference to what some phil-hellenes were proposing in Vienna. Nevertheless, I find it incredible and very hard to believe, and a stupid move on his behalf.

                              Comment

                              • Soldier of Macedon
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 13675

                                #30
                                In that era and in those circumstances he believed he was doing the right thing, he was not to know how things would evolve in future, in hindsight there are naturally better options.
                                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                                Comment

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