The etymology of Odyssey

[Svoliani]

Slovak, just hang around a bit more, the entertainment value this guy puts forward is priceless, for this effort im gonna give him a 4/10 becuase he made me laugh in what was otherwise a dreary day for me.

Of course our little friend has no idea why he says Odi and the rest say Hodi. Loss of the initial H in the local dialect esp around Florina , so Hlerinon becomes Lerin , Hleb becomes Leb , Horo becomes Oro and Hristo becomes Risto.

We keep being told that Vasileus and Odysses are borrowed words , but he doesnt tell us from who they borrowed them from!!!

Here are some more 'non greek' names you can work on for our next endeavor , Agape , Hara , Sotir , Atanas , Lefter , Despina .

Anyway Slovak,
Pa Ruski , Hodi means 'to walk' to say 'go' you would say uidi or idi (which can also mean 'come')

[Philosopher]

I spoke to researcher/linguist Odyssey (as per his English name) on his interpretation on the meaning of Odyssey.

Here is what he wrote to me verbatim:

The word Odyssey is Homeric or more accurately Pelasgian . The Pelasgians were the forefathers of the Macedonians and inhabited most of Europe in Ancient times.According to my studies the name is made up of two words .We have to go back to an older form of the name 'Odisea' made up of the basic verb 'odi' to move to go to travel.This is a fundamental Macedonian action verb beyond any doubt as in itself is made of 'od' ( from ) and 'do' (to) > oddo > odi'.- the basic concept of movement from one point to another.

The second word is sea > se > see, which as per my studies is the base root for the basic Macedonian / Pelasgian word meaning lake > sea or a large surface of water.It is the source of the English and other European Languges for the word 'sea > see mening 'sea'. Originally as it is in Old English ,it ment ' lake'( Oxford). In modern Macedonian and all the Slavic languages ( Slavic< Macedonian < Pelasgian ) it is the base for the word esse-ro > aze-ro > jezero = lake.

Therefore 'odi' + sea = odisea or basicaly a sea or water traveler.This is much in agreement with the famous Homeric epic.Further to this the Greeks adopted the basic Pelasgo - Macedonian action verb odi > odo, and today have this Pelasgian root / word in the name for street 'odos'
I was the original person that explained the word vasil < vasilea -e many years ago .The meaning is confirmed in the works of the linguist L.Passow ( 1830 - 1845).It is of basically the same meaning that you have heard or found out yourself.
These words are most deff. not of Greek origin .The Original Homeric Epics were written in the Ancient Pelasgian Language. The Greek language is far newer language . It has absorbed and ( unfortunately ) modified/corupted much of the Pelasgian vocabulary.Most of the main Greek Voc. is of Pelasgian origin, such as Akadimia , sofos, theos etc etc etc. This is hardly disputable by any schollars because the Greek Language has no roots or offer any widely acceptable expanation or etymology to these words. Of couse this is is what has concerned most of the etymologists of today, and may create disgreement or even revolt / 'panic 'with the Greeks, because the language that they say is artificial ( the Macedonian < Pelasgian ) it really the one that has given the roots of many modern Greek words.

Odyssey

I then responsed with this email:

There is one thing I don't understand. You wrote: "The second word is sea > se > see, which as per my studies is the base root for the basic Macedonian / Pelasgian word meaning lake > sea or a large surface of water.It is the source of the English and other European Languges for the word 'sea > see mening 'sea'. Originally as it is in Old English ,it ment ' lake'( Oxford). In modern Macedonian and all the Slavic languages ( Slavic< Macedonian < Pelasgian ) it is the base for the word esse-ro > aze-ro > jezero = lake.
Therefore 'odi' + sea = odisea or basicaly a sea or water traveler."

But the second word is "si," not "se" or "sea." The suffix "si" in Odisi is not "se." As far as I know, the suffix "si" means "one's self." Subsequently, the meaning is "one's going, one's traveling."

I understand that "se" is the base for essero, or "sea" but "odisi" is not spelled "odise." Therefore, how do you get a "sea" out of the suffix "si" in "odisi?"

Are you arguing that in the English Spelling "Odyssey," the suffix "se" forms "sea" or "ocean?" If so, how do you relate this to the Macedonian "Odisi," meaning "one's going or travelling? There doesn't appear to be a "sea" in the Macedonian "Odisi." Unless, of course, you are suggesting that the original spelling in Macedonian was "Odise." Would this be a fair statement?

Would appreciate a clarification.

Regards.

He responded with this:

Please note that etymology is not always simple , mainly due to the alternation of word forms over time. There is what is called 'the old folks etimology which somtimes can be correct . It can also be 'dangerous " to an official linguist'

You are stuck with the newer form of the older word form 'odisea" .Words change their form over time . Many times they get altered to a point of loosing their original sounds and meaning. There are hundreds ( and probably thousands ) of expamples of this kind.( I am writing a book on this ) .A typical example of this is the English name Oswald. It has two basic words in it combined to the meaning of 'god weald '.These are basically Macedonian / Ancient Slavic / Pelasgian words .The word for God 'Gos-pod' > gos > os and vola >volja vilja , > weald ,,which is in line with the Macedonian /Slavic vlada > vladee = to rule' . The "OE" 'os' is a coruption of Gos < Gospod - God.Oxford states that it is 'simply"Old English without any reff. or explanation or simply and conveniently avoids the connection of os' to gos < Gospod'
(Oxford wrote ". Oswald " masc. proper name, from O.E. Osweald "god-power, god-ruler," from O.E. os "god" (only in personal names), )

Today the Macedonians from Greece and the Greeks themselves still write 'and pronounce ' Odi-sea..'
By the way :
I wrote in my message to you :

...We have to go back to an older form of the name 'Odisea' made up of the basic verb 'odi' to move to go to travel.This is a fundamental Macedonian action verb beyond any doubt as in itself is made of 'od' ( from ) and 'do' (to) > oddo > odi'.- the basic concept of movement from one point to another. The second word is sea > se > see, which as per my studies is the base root for the basic Macedonian / Pelasgian word meaning lake > sea or a large surface of water..............

Odyssey - Odisi< Odisea < Odisea (Homer- Pelasgian)

Make what you will of it.

[Pelister]

You know I have heard this said before that Homer used the terms "iti" and "oti" - the transliteration means simply "come" and "go" ... the etymology is almost identical to Macedonian except that the "t" has been replaced by the "d".

[Pelister]

You have no idea how even the smallest accent changes the entire picture of the origin of the word. Odysseus or 'Odysseus has no relation to Macedonian "odi", "odisi" or any other form of it. The Macedonian word "odi" derives from Old Slvaonic *hod [xɔd] which means walk. It's very old root and one that I doubt has changed since it's origin. Macedonian simply dropped the [x], presumably under influence of Greek.

But of course Macedonians never believe anything concerning linguistics since they believe their language is the oldest and the best preserved Slavic language, when in truth it is vice-versa.

I don't have patience with you anymore so you can go explore your language blindly into a dark cave. Good luck and hope a bear eats you.

That would be like me saying to you good luck with your quest and I hope you get struck down by lightning ... mmm/ not a very nice thing to say.

[Risto the Great]

But of course Macedonians never believe anything concerning linguistics since they believe their language is the oldest and the best preserved Slavic language, when in truth it is vice-versa.

Actually, I don't buy the language superiority thing in any way whatsoever, but I would say Macedonian is the LEAST preserved Slavic language. As a consequence, it may well be that it has existed for the longest time and has been subject to more influences than others have. What do you think SAT?

[osiris]

Actually, I don't buy the language superiority thing in any way whatsoever, but I would say Macedonian is the LEAST preserved Slavic language. As a consequence, it may well be that it has existed for the longest time and has been subject to more influences than others have. What do you think SAT?

given our geographic locationa and the subsequent invasions of so many different peoples i think what you say seems credible rtg.

[El Bre]

given our geographic locationa and the subsequent invasions of so many different peoples i think what you say seems credible rtg.

Sounds about right.

[Pelister]

Sounds about right.

The other thing I suppose is that the Macedoinans were one of the last people in Europe to become modernized/Westernized.

The Ottomans left Macedonia last. Greece was liberated in 1830, Serbia in 1809? ... etc.

Macedonians were snuffed out under Bulgarian and Greek rule, but under Serbian rule - new laws had to be made banning most Macedonian customs.

Similarly, one could argue that the language is perhaps the best preserved - because it wasn't codified until very late.

Just a thought.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I think the similarities are too significant to ignore.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Slovak, I brought up some of your old posts on this thread. Let's take mod. Macedonian out of the picture for the moment.

Words like odi=come, ajde*=come on, leb=bread, lad=cold, etc. all begin with a [x] in all other Slavic languages (hodi, hajde, hleb, hlad, etc.) as well as in Old Slavonic i.e. Old Macedonian.

Greek /h/ is not [x] but [ɦ] (Greek /χ/ is [x]), which does not exists in Slavic until the Middle Ages and only in West Slavic languages and Ukrainian deriving from [g] (most Southern Slavic speakers cannot pronounce it).

The first letter of the word Ὀδυσσεύς is an omicron with a psili. Spartan indicated that in ancient and modern Greek the word is pronounced without a 'h' before the 'o'. Above you stated that the letter 'ɦ' didn't exist in Slavic languages prior to the Middle Ages, but does such a letter (Ὀ) have an equivalent in Proto Balto-Slavic? Are you able to show us how it developed from PIE? Would appreciate your assistance so we can bring this matter to a close.

[Onur]

There is something interesting about this "H" sound. In standard Turkish accent, we have that sound of "H" and we fully pronounce it but whether from Bulgaria or Macedonia, the Turks who lives in there never pronounces this "H" and they always skip it.

I mean, in Turkey, we say "haydi, hajde" but the Turks in Bulgaria, Macedonia always says "aydi, ajde" and they drop all the "h" sounds from all other words while they speak. How you Macedonians pronounce the "h"??

[Soldier of Macedon]

We don't use the 'h' either Onur, aside from probably some peripheral dialects.

[Dimko-piperkata]

http://macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=582

[Delodephius]

Ὀδύσσεια
Ῥαψωδία α

Ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, Μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ
πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσε·
πολλῶν δ’ ἀνθρώπων ἴδεν ἄστεα καὶ νόον ἔγνω,
πολλὰ δ’ ὅ γ’ ἐν πόντῳ πάθεν ἄλγεα ὃν κατὰ θυμόν,
ἀρνύμενος ἥν τε ψυχὴν καὶ νόστον ἑταίρων.
ἀλλ' οὐδ' ὧς ἑτάρους ἐρρύσατο, ἱέμενός περ·
αὐτῶν γὰρ σφετέρῃσιν ἀτασθαλίῃσιν ὄλοντο,
νήπιοι, οἳ κατὰ βοῦς Ὑπερίονος Ἠελίοιο
ἤσθιον· αὐτὰρ ὁ τοῖσιν ἀφείλετο νόστιμον ἦμαρ.
τῶν ἁμόθεν γε, θεά, θύγατερ Διός, εἰπὲ καὶ ἡμῖν. 10

[Delodephius]

The first letter of the word Ὀδυσσεύς is an omicron with a psili. Spartan indicated that in ancient and modern Greek the word is pronounced without a 'h' before the 'o'. Above you stated that the letter 'ɦ' didn't exist in Slavic languages prior to the Middle Ages, but does such a letter (Ὀ) have an equivalent in Proto Balto-Slavic? Are you able to show us how it developed from PIE? Would appreciate your assistance so we can bring this matter to a close.

I am not sure as I haven't yet come across a reference to Greek 'h' being compared to anything in Slavic languages. I'm still trying to find some information on it. However, the Wikipedia article on Proto-Greek mentions this:

Loss of /h/ (from original /s/), except initially; loss of /j/. Examples: treis "three" < *treyes; Doric nikaas "having conquered" < *nikahas < *nikasas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Greek_language

So Greek 'h' in initial position should correspond to Palaeo-Balkan-Proto-Balto-Slavic 's' if I'm not mistaken.

Actually the article provides various useful information and a start to further research (I don't trust Wikipedia alone).