Archaeology of the Ancient World

[Bij]

afterhours - I think you came here with the continued hope of ruffling some feathers. you failed. no feathers have been ruffled. poor you. boohoo. why dont you go cry in the met, maybe someone will feel bad for you.

Macedonians have and always will be the underdog in historical terms. For one thing, Greece had an 170 odd year head-start in selling the myth of hellenisation to the world. haven't you ever heard the phrase that only the winners get to write history? i mean, i'd hope you would considering you're a history student and all. don't worry, we've caught up really well in the last 17 years. you should be a little worried of what we've been able to achieve in such a short time.

if you want to discuss archaeology, then let's discuss it in its full. not just what works in favour of you ie. a few museums. let's do the whole shebang, ancient sources and all. i'm sure we will sway the theme of this thread drastically this way

you know exactly what i'm insinuating with the Hellenic Ministry of Culture and their 'loans' to museums.

[afterhours]

After Hours just loves listening to him self i think. To me sounds like he has doughts and needs to go on with bullshit so that he can convince him self more than anyone else.

Guilty as charged! How did you know?

To me sounds like he has doughts and needs to go on with bullshit

Can you please enlighten me as to why the Louvre, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, the British Museum, the Getty, and the Hermitage are bullshit?

Doubts? If you say so!

so that he can convince him self more than anyone else. He is asked a question and when he is in trouble, he elects to do this

And when exactly have I been in trouble and elected to do this ?

Ahhh After Hours, the Great Magician look into this hand. Then presto.... out it comes out of his ass. This trick is getting boring man.

Sorry man, not quite following. Magicians, tricks, presto? You got a thing for Chris Angel or something? What's getting boring? You find museums that deal with Macedonian archaeology boring? That's a damn shame! Especially coming from a proud patriot like yourself.

By the way who said this?

"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it”.

HA HA enyone?

if you Guessed Adolf Hitler, you are corect.

What do Hitler and the Louvre have in common? Run out of arguments did we?

[afterhours]

Don't feel bad just keep it flowing if you got something to say show us some inscriptions.pictures of statues.We are not as bad as you make us to be.Share your stuff

I never said you guys were bad! George, I have been sharing, and I have ample resources from the world's museums to keep sharing. By all means, challenge the substance of my posts...specifically the ones that come from the world's museums.

with us were all ears.Provided it's not derogatory!we would welcome
open informed dialogue.Just asking why are you called after hours???
isn't it a little odd?sorry to ask.

I'm a dj, if that answers your question.

[afterhours]

To start with, you can keep your sarcasm or condescending remarks out the door. Don't whaist my time proving were you have done this, look back at your own posts, But to start with check the first line above that is your quote.

Fine! Sarcasm and "condescending remaks" aside, can you please indulge me? And while you're at it, can you address some of my posts in which I present for your viewing pleasure Macedonian archaeological artifacts?

Many Posts were you claim (which is fake) "poor me why do you want to Ban me" are iritating and not keeping with this subject or thread. just post and get to the point.

Those posts where I made those comments were in response to other posters requesting my banishment. All I asked was what forum rules had I broken that would warrant such a ban. As for me keeping with the subject of this thread, with all due respect, not a single poster here has followed my lead. I have posted several links to some of the most prestigious museums on the face of the planet that delve into Macedonian archaeology. Am I perhaps posting on the wrong thread? Are posting links to the archaeological finds of ancient Macedonia somehow off topic? Why don't you tell me then what type of material I should post on a thread that has been dedicated to ancient archaeology.

[George S.]

isn't there more to post on the ancient macedonians at least post them as some of us are waiting for more.You didn't amswer my question why the name after hours.why"

[afterhours]

I believe Adolf Hitler already addressed this, but it should be pointed out that this is simply a set of Pseudo-Rationalistic statements. Appearances can be deceiving and misconceptions eventually give way to grounded thought. You're making this too easy.

Say what it is you want to say. Too easy? If you say so! If that's the case, then surely you can address some of the links that I've posted, if that's easy enough for you.

That went right over your head, didn't it?

Ok. It went right over my head! Does the Louvre, the British Museum, the Getty, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, and the Hermitage also go over my head, or am I a product of filthy Greek propaganda?

Your inability to think independently.

You're pretty sharp! My faith in the world's most elite museums has somehow made me incapable of thinking independently! What can I say to such spot on criticism?! Ya got me! Ckeck mate...I resign!

[afterhours]

isn't there more to post on the ancient macedonians at least post them as some of us are waiting for more.

As a matter of fact....

http://www.getty.edu/art/gettyguide/artObjectDetails?artobj=109801

Queen's Vase with Berenike II

A relief portrait of Berenike II, the queen of Egypt, decorates this fragmentary faience oinochoe or pitcher. Standing between an altar and a pillar, Berenike holds a cornucopia--a symbol of wealth and prosperity--and pours a libation or liquid offering to the gods from a phiale or shallow cup. An inscription in Greek over the altar reads, "To the good fortune of Queen Berenike." She was the wife of Ptolemy III who ruled from 246 to 221 B.C. as part of the Greek Ptolemaic dynasty that controlled Egypt in the Hellenistic period.

Although its neck is missing, this vase is one of the best preserved examples of a class of offering vessels scholars call "Queen's vases." These faience oinochoai depicting Ptolemaic queens offering libations represent a fusion of the Greek and Egyptian elements that co-existed in Ptolemaic Egypt. Faience was a traditional Egyptian material for offering vessels, but the oinochoe shape, the subject matter, and the style of the depiction are Greek. Beginning in 285 B.C. Ptolemaic rulers were worshiped as gods, and these vases were connected with their cult. During religious festivals, these jugs would have held wine for libations in honor of the royal family.

You didn't amswer my question why the name after hours.why"

I thought that I did George. I'm a dj and spin tracks into the well into the afterhours....in other words, I'm not what you would call a "morning person".

[George S.]

that explains your quickness in answering the threads at 3 am in the morning.Which is after hours.Thanks for showing the queens vase very interesting.

[Bill77]

Just trying to cach up. just read the thread from the start and sory to bring back past again.

{Quote After Hours} "What do Hitler and the Louvre have in common? Run out of arguments did we?"

Its you and your natzi Greece ideology "Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it”.


{Quote After Hours} "And when exactly have I been in trouble and elected to do this?

You quote my statements, but don't answer my question Bitch
{my question}"I want to ask you on your thoughts re: The Nation And Its Ruins by Yannis Hamilakis."



{Quote by after hours}, "Just read a bit of Demosthenes to get the overall picture"

so would you want to here other statements by Demosthenes? or only the bits that suits Greece?
"... not only no Greek, nor related to the Greeks, but not even a barbarian from any place that can be named with honors, but a pestilent knave from Macedonia, whence it was never yet possible to buy a decent slave" - Demosthenes, Third Philippic, 31.
More: http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/An...mosthenes.html

{Quote by After Hours:}" The topic of this thread relates to the top museums in the world and how these museums view the ancient Maks. According to these museums, the ancient Maks were a bit more than "philhelenes".

So you are telling me that history has been resolved? lets all put our shovels down and believe that what Greece have claimed and purified to be Gospel. Once upon a time the world was thought to have been flat, and if you believed other wise, you were a nut case. And you tell me what Philhelenes and Barbarian means That these museums that have not overlooked or taken to consideration. Again please read The nation and its ruins and see why these Museums think like they do such as Lourve and the Hermitage you claim as to be The word of God,

http://traumwerk.stanford.edu/archaeolog/2009/02/a_response_to_the_nation_and_i.html

can you imagine the uproar if these museums destoyed Greece's romance with any alternative view.

And dont quote my "world being flat" statement stupid. Just think about what i am trying to say. History, medical, Thoughts keep changing and improving with further discoveries and debating.

[afterhours]

http://traumwerk.stanford.edu/archae...ion_and_i.html

What's your point?

[afterhours]

that explains your quickness in answering the threads at 3 am in the morning.Which is after hours.Thanks for showing the queens vase very interesting.

It's actually 12:30 here. Will most likely be wide and awake at 3 am as well.

Regarding the the queen's vase, is there anything in the description that you do not agree with? Or are you fully content with its contents?

[Bij]

Angelina Markus, Author, Professor did an interview I think would interest you afterhours.

During the Dionysian celebrations in 2003 in Skopje you publicly apologized to the Macedonian people and to your former students for your misleading teachings. How did you arrive at this reversal?

Markus: A few years back, as I was reviewing some books and notes from fifty years ago I was seized by a strong realization that in the current history everything is erroneously written; in the encyclopedia, in formal papers, in almost everything where the name Macedonia appears. I realized that during my entire working life, with a teaching guide in my hands, generation after generation I have taught students that there was a Greek Culture, Greek theaters, Greek philosophy and so on, when all these were actually Macedonian.

[afterhours]

Just trying to cach up. just read the thread from the start and sory to bring back past again.

{Quote After Hours} "What do Hitler and the Louvre have in common? Run out of arguments did we?"

Its you and your natzi Greece ideology "Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it”.

What "lie" are you referring to?

{Quote After Hours} "And when exactly have I been in trouble and elected to do this?

You quote my statements, but don't answer my question Bitch
{my question}"I want to ask you on your thoughts re: The Nation And Its Ruins by Yannis Hamilakis."

No need to get nasty sweetheart! What are your specific questions in regards to the link that you provided? I'm not a mind reader, unlike your some of your stellar "historians" that communicate with dead kings through the use of quack fortune tellers!

{Quote by after hours}, "Just read a bit of Demosthenes to get the overall picture"

so would you want to here other statements by Demosthenes? or only the bits that suits Greece?
"... not only no Greek, nor related to the Greeks, but not even a barbarian from any place that can be named with honors, but a pestilent knave from Macedonia, whence it was never yet possible to buy a decent slave" - Demosthenes, Third Philippic, 31.
More: http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/An...mosthenes.html

I'm a history major man! That being said, I'm competent enough to distinguish patriotic rhetoric from the overall picture. Here's a little hint, read between the lines.

PS, can you provide other sources in the future? The link that you provided is not condusive to a proper and fair debate. It is obviously biased, unless of course you consider nationalist websites as reliable sources. Just a suggetsion.

{Quote by After Hours:}" The topic of this thread relates to the top museums in the world and how these museums view the ancient Maks. According to these museums, the ancient Maks were a bit more than "philhelenes".

So you are telling me that history has been resolved? lets all put our shovels down and believe that what Greece have claimed and purified to be Gospel.

Who said anything about Greece? Last time I checked, the Louvre was in France, the Hermitage in Russia, the British Museum in England, and the Getty and Metropolitan Museum of Art in the States. Where does Greece come into play?

Once upon a time the world was thought to have been flat, and if you believed other wise, you were a nut case.

And the the middle text of the Rosetta Stone isn't Egyptian Demotic

And you tell me what Philhelenes and Barbarian means That these museums that have not overlooked or taken to consideration. Again please read The nation and its ruins and see why these Museums think like they do such as Lourve and the Hermitage you claim as to be The word of God,

http://traumwerk.stanford.edu/archaeolog/2009/02/a_response_to_the_nation_and_i.html

can you imagine the uproar if these museums destoyed Greece's romance with any alternative view.

Be more specific please.

[Bill77]

I thought i was clear enough. Did any one else have dificulty reading my questions and statements?

Bill77 "Its you and your natzi Greece ideology "Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it”.

After Hours "What "lie" are you referring to?"

Answer- simple answer Macedonia was greek.



Bill77 "I want to ask you on your thoughts re: The Nation And Its Ruins by Yannis Hamilakis."

After Hours " What are your specific questions in regards to the link that you provided? I'm not a mind reader"

a simple i have not read the book, or i don't know or honest opinion whould have done.



Bill77 "so would you want to here other statements by Demosthenes? or only the bits that suits Greece?" source "Demosthenes, Third Philippic, 31."

After Hours "can you provide other sources in the future?"

Come on Mr History Major, do your own search.



Bill77 "lets all put our shovels down and believe that what Greece have claimed and purified to be Gospel."

After Hours "Who said anything about Greece? Last time I checked, the Louvre was in France, ........"

where did i sugest Louvre is in Greece.



Bill77 "And you tell me what Philhelenes and Barbarian means"

After Hours "Be more specific please."

SIMPLE, WHAT DID THE TERMS PHILELENES AND BARBARIAN MEAN IN THE ANCIENT TIMES?

[afterhours]

Angelina Markus, Author, Professor did an interview I think would interest you afterhours.

And where does this Angelina Markus hail from? What are her credentials? Do her "theories" make any sort of impact on international academia? Do they take precedence over such fine institutions as the Louvre, the Hermitage, the British Museum, The Getty, and the Metropolitan Museum of Art?

During the Dionysian celebrations in 2003 in Skopje you publicly apologized to the Macedonian people and to your former students for your misleading teachings. How did you arrive at this reversal?

Markus: A few years back, as I was reviewing some books and notes from fifty years ago I was seized by a strong realization that in the current history everything is erroneously written; in the encyclopedia, in formal papers, in almost everything where the name Macedonia appears. I realized that during my entire working life, with a teaching guide in my hands, generation after generation I have taught students that there was a Greek Culture, Greek theaters, Greek philosophy and so on, when all these were actually Macedonian.

You got me man! How could I have been so stupid?! Here I thought that the world's museums were a stepping stone towards historical truths and revelations, when in reality, they have been financed and persuaded by the world's super power Greece! Angelina Markus is not toeing the party line...on the contrary, she strives to discredit the Louvre and all other similar institutions with her brand of historical reality!

Just out of curiousity, what do you think Angelina Markus would have to say about the following bit of archaeological information provided by the Getty?

http://www.getty.edu/art/gettyguide/artObjectDetails?artobj=248738

Green Bowl with Knobs and Incised Floral Pattern

The base of this turquoise vessel showcases a petal-shaped pattern punctuated by tear-shaped knobs. With its slightly flaring rim, the vessel probably served as a drinking bowl; the prominent knobs would have provided the drinker with something to grasp when tipping the bowl to take a sip of wine. Once the drink was consumed, the bowl rested upside down on its rim.

This vessel shape developed in the Achaemenid Empire in ancient Persia in the fifth century B.C. When the Greeks, led by Alexander the Great, expanded into Persia in the fourth century B.C., Greek artisans began producing this type of bowl in glass, clay, and silver. This bowl was cast in a mold; a glassworker skilled with a cutting wheel then added the base pattern and the ridges that encircle the rim.

Glass during this period was considered a luxury object and a bowl like this would have been found only among the highest levels of society. It could have remained in a single family for generations as an heirloom. Many of these pieces survive today because they were placed in tombs as grave gifts for the deceased.