Archaeology of the Ancient World

[Bij]

http://projectsx.dartmouth.edu/histo...ns/les/16.html

i have skimmed through this link and found no correlation to Macedonian burials.

as far as your links for the Louvre and British museum, I would expect nothing less of these two countries, as they were the pioneers (together with Germany) in the romanticism of hellenic culture in modern history, and forging Greece to be the modern scapegoat it is.

I believe the information administered by the Met is also from a french man. arrogant pricks.

[TrueMacedonian]

Why is everybody staying off topic?

Can none of you addrees the links that I've posted?

Do the Metropitan Museum of Art, the Louvre, the British Museum have ulterior motives?

I'd love some feedback!

Speaking of the British museum let's talk about the Elgin Marbles. This is about archaeology after all. Why did the Albanians give up their own marbles?

[TrueMacedonian]

I'm being a little arrogant, then let me know too! I will definitely tone it down! But don't ban me simply because I post links to highly esteemed museums!

So let's assume that the ancient Macedonians were in fact Hellenes. So,,,what in the world would that have to do with you? Are we trying to build on the myth of an unbroken cultural continuation here or are we simply just following orders like the other drones?

[Soldier of Macedon]

You mean the Athenian colonies in Macedonia?

Are Athenians not Hellenes? Macedonia is not Hellenic by origin or at heart, are you saying it is? If so, please post a list of all the Hellenic lands that received Hellenic colonists in the manner that Macedonia did, I want to see how contemporary writers view and record these events (if indeed they took place at all).

The earliest Greek inscriptions in Epirus date to about the 6th century BC, however, the oracle at Dodona dates much earlier.

So who was Hellenized as early as, or prior to, the 8th century BC? I’ll give you a hint, nobody. The oracle at Dodona is pre-Hellenic and dates much earlier than any record of Hellenes.

Aside from Greek colonization in southern Illyria, the Greek presence in Epirus was well established. Is it your belief that the Molossians were not a Greek tribe?

Can you point me to the ancient literature that first cites the Molossians and their origin? You have me interested.

So when was the Hellenic language used as a lingua franca? And by whom?

At various periods for various people, we both know this. If you are trying to say something in particular then be more specific.

It is common knowledge that the Thracians spoke a language that was not of Greek origin. Can the same be said for the ancient Maks?

Yes it can.

I was under the impression that the Edoni were a Thracian tribe. This is the first time I'm hearing that they were Macedonians. I thought the Macedonians drove them out of Macedonia.

They were a Thracian tribe, the link makes reference to them as a Macedonian tribe because they were from Macedonia, and I doubt that all of them were driven out of their homes when the Macedonians extended their power to the east. The actual point of the links with the coins seems to have went over your head; the Edoni also used the Hellenic language in the 5th century BC, that is a parallel with the Macedonians that cannot be disputed.

By all means!

Really? You want to see more examples of Thracians, Illyrians and other ancient Balkan peoples using the Hellenic language and Phoenician script? Macedonians are the same.

[Bij]

just to add to the lingua franca debate, this is from the cambridge ancient history book section about Macedonia written by hammond

[afterhours]

i have skimmed through this link and found no correlation to Macedonian burials.

as far as your links for the Louvre and British museum, I would expect nothing less of these two countries, as they were the pioneers (together with Germany) in the romanticism of hellenic culture in modern history, and forging Greece to be the modern scapegoat it is.

I believe the information administered by the Met is also from a french man. arrogant pricks.

Was the State Hermitage Museum in St. Petersburg, Russia, also given faulty information from some "french dude"?

2nd century BC

http://hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/03/hm3_7_1_1b.html

The Greek world penetrated deep into Central Asia in the centuries after the invasion of Alexander the Great. The coins of the Greek kings of Bactria and north-western India illustrate the mingling of Greek and native cultures. This coin shows a Greek king wearing a local headdress on the obverse and the Greek god Poseidon, representing the Indian trident-bearing god Siva, on the reverse.

[afterhours]

Speaking of the British museum let's talk about the Elgin Marbles. This is about archaeology after all. Why did the Albanians give up their own marbles?

If this is going to turn out to be you proclaiming that Athens was nothing more than an Albanian village, and the whole of Attica was predominantly Albanian, then why don't you post the parts of the numerous books that you use against us "Arvanitovlahikoslavoturks" where even your sources quite clearly state that Greeks made up the majority population of, not only the Greek kingdom at the time, but also where Greeks resided within the empire?

PS, can we get back to the topic of this thread? It deals with museums, and how these museums perceive the ancient Maks....not my words, but the words (verbatim) of museums across the globe.

[afterhours]

So let's assume that the ancient Macedonians were in fact Hellenes. So,,,what in the world would that have to do with you?

I don't know, maybe a cultural continuation perhaps, ie, linguistics (with all dialects of the Greek language being considered), the church (the Greek Orthodox church is more pagan than any other christian sect bar none!), peotry, music, art, etc. And that influence has been felt by everyone in the neighborhood (at least in my humble opinion).

Are we trying to build on the myth of an unbroken cultural continuation here or are we simply just following orders like the other drones?

No nation can claim an "unbroken cultural continuation", but when you have Greeks living in the Balkans and surrounding regions for such a long period of time, I wouldn't call that coincidence. Throw your Arvanites, Vlachs, and Macedonians in the mix, and the Greek element still is predominant.

But back to the topic of this thread TrueMacedonian, I would love to hear your thoughts as to why the Louvre, the British Museum, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, the State Hermitage Museum, and so many other world renowned museums claim the things that they claim....can you make any sense of it?

[afterhours]

Are Athenians not Hellenes? Macedonia is not Hellenic by origin or at heart, are you saying it is? If so, please post a list of all the Hellenic lands that received Hellenic colonists in the manner that Macedonia did, I want to see how contemporary writers view and record these events (if indeed they took place at all).

Athenian colonists. I'm not saying it, but the sources I've posted in this thread clearly do! Don't just take it up with me!

Before we get into ancient writers and their perceptions of who the ancient Maks were or were not, can you at least address what the Louvre, the British Museum, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, and the State Hermitage Museum thought of them?

[afterhours]

So who was Hellenized as early as, or prior to, the 8th century BC? I’ll give you a hint, nobody. The oracle at Dodona is pre-Hellenic and dates much earlier than any record of Hellenes.

Probably, but we don't know for sure!

[afterhours]

Can you point me to the ancient literature that first cites the Molossians and their origin? You have me interested.

http://classics.mit.edu/Plutarch/pyrrhus.html

I can point you to a plethora of info!

[afterhours]

At various periods for various people, we both know this. If you are trying to say something in particular then be more specific.

I think you know very well what I'm trying to say here, and that is that the Greek language became a lingua franca after the exploits of Alexander.

[afterhours]

Yes it can.

Ok, then by all means, give this "Arvanitovlahoslavotorko" the low down!

[afterhours]

They were a Thracian tribe, the link makes reference to them as a Macedonian tribe because they were from Macedonia, and I doubt that all of them were driven out of their homes when the Macedonians extended their power to the east. The actual point of the links with the coins seems to have went over your head; the Edoni also used the Hellenic language in the 5th century BC, that is a parallel with the Macedonians that cannot be disputed.

But they didn't use the Greek language, and according to the museums that I've highlighted thus far, the ancient Maks did.

[afterhours]

Really? You want to see more examples of Thracians, Illyrians and other ancient Balkan peoples using the Hellenic language and Phoenician script?

Not their mother tongue though.

Macedonians are the same.

Again, I (and the museums that I've cited) beg to differ.