Who are the Slavs? - Citations and Sources

[Voltron]

Pelister,

You should be a defense attorney. You remind me of Johnny Cochran.
Since its a position of the Greeks, deny it altogether. Nice angle.

I guess the Slav toponyms in Greece that are from the 6th century are not slavic at all. They are really Greek that the Greeks decided to change without any reason. The Byzantines and other sources of that period have it all wrong and last but not least, Poland, Czech, Slovenia are not Slavic. What term should we use for our friends up north then ?
Any suggestions ?

[Soldier of Macedon]

You could, as you have indicated, start looking around for 'evidence' of every time Macedonians have used the term 'Slav' (Gligorov being an example, I suppose); but if you did that you would in my opinion only be advancing the narratives of our enemies - the Greeks.

I don't use people like Gligorov as examples, because they used the term in the same manner that Greeks do. The same does not apply to Macedonians like Pulevski or Misirkov, who never used the term to distinguish Macedonians from their ancestral links to antiquity.

You have some people convinced that you are only using it in reference to a broad linguistic group; as you continue to state.

I don't need to convince them, because unlike you, they are able to interpret what I have written in a logical way.

But clearly you are carrying all the assumptions our enemies use against us.

That is only "clear" to an ignorant fool.

a) The biggest problem is that you assume you know the identity of the 6th century invaders (yet, you have not produced a single original source, not from Procopius, Theophylact of Simocatta, Marcellinus Comes nor the one or two others)

You need help. Seriously. I have asked you repeatedly to explain what you mean by "original" sources. What do you want? The Greek and Latin originals?

There doesn't appear to be a single contemporary who uses the term "Slav" either; it looks like that it appears for the first time about 400 years later in one source!

Pure ignorance.

.........your engaging in some mischief here.

Pure stupidity.

It is irresponsible of you to assume (as you have done) that every time someone has used the term 'Slav', or 'Sclav' or 'Sklav' or 'Saclav' - that they are in fact referring all to the same thing, and they all mean the same thing by it.

I have never said that everytime the terms are used they refer to the same thing.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I would rather you call them "6th century invaders" than "Slavs".

I quoted this seperately because like usual you will ignore important questions that are included in elaborate posts. How did the language or languages of those invaders impact the ancient Macedonian language?

[Bill77]

Pelister,

You should be a defense attorney. You remind me of Johnny Cochran.
Since its a position of the Greeks, deny it altogether. Nice angle.

I guess the Slav toponyms in Greece that are from the 6th century are not slavic at all. They are really Greek that the Greeks decided to change without any reason. The Byzantines and other sources of that period have it all wrong and last but not least, Poland, Czech, Slovenia are not Slavic. What term should we use for our friends up north then ?
Any suggestions ?

Voltron.....buddy.

I think till now, you have deliberately avoided these threads. What is your take on all of this? Our language having lexical connections with a dozen other "slavic" languages spread all over eastern Europe. Does this thread shed any light that ethnically we are not "slavs"? are you convinced now that "slav" or "slavic" is a linguistic description and not an Ethnic? What conclusion have you come to.

Be honest mate.

[Daskalot]

Pelister,

You should be a defense attorney. You remind me of Johnny Cochran.
Since its a position of the Greeks, deny it altogether. Nice angle.

I guess the Slav toponyms in Greece that are from the 6th century are not slavic at all. They are really Greek that the Greeks decided to change without any reason. The Byzantines and other sources of that period have it all wrong and last but not least, Poland, Czech, Slovenia are not Slavic. What term should we use for our friends up north then ?
Any suggestions ?

Slavic toponyms in Greece? Where and when? Why from the 6th century? Which where changed into Slavic ones?
So many questions, I hope you will be able to answer them Voltron.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Daskale, you really don't know the answers to those questions?

[Voltron]

Voltron.....buddy.

I think till now, you have deliberately avoided these threads. What is your take on all of this? Our language having lexical connections with a dozen other "slavic" languages spread all over eastern Europe. Does this thread shed any light that ethnically we are not "slavs"? are you convinced now that "slav" or "slavic" is a linguistic description and not an Ethnic? What conclusion have you come to.

Be honest mate.

I believe that the Slav term becomes more ethnic as we go further north. There is no doubt in my mind that Polish people arent aware of their Slavic heritage in an ethnic sense. I also believe that as we go further south to the balkans the ethnic character becomes more of a disputable and grey area with Macedonians taking the lead on it. Serbs celebrate Slava day, Bulgarians also dont shy away from that termininolgy to much. Some posters here on the other hand flat out deny any connection to it as some sort of disease. Greece could of well been another South Slav country no doubt. It came pretty damn close, and would of if it wasnt for the geographical fact that it was the most southern point in the Balkans at the time. Macedonia being closer to the front lines at the end resulted of being assimilated by the Slavic character of the region, whereas in other more southern areas of Greece it did not happen simply because they werent as overwhelmed.

When Greeks say you are Slavs, it is not to point out genetic differences but linguistic differences. Slavs accomplished something that very few people can say. And that is it singlehandedly managed to spread their language across half of Europe. How anybody can find shame in that is beyond me.

[Voltron]

Slavic toponyms in Greece? Where and when? Why from the 6th century? Which where changed into Slavic ones?
So many questions, I hope you will be able to answer them Voltron.

You can even find some in Crete. They were all over the place. See Max Vasmer link. Dont remember where I posted it.

[Daskalot]

Daskale, you really don't know the answers to those questions?

:-) I would like to hear Voltron's take on it.

[Daskalot]

You can even find some in Crete. They were all over the place. See Max Vasmer link. Dont remember where I posted it.

Wow Slavic toponyms was all over the place even as far away as Crete, how did that happen Voltron?

[Soldier of Macedon]

I believe that the Slav term becomes more ethnic as we go further north. There is no doubt in my mind that Polish people arent aware of their Slavic heritage in an ethnic sense.

Have you ever heard Poles refer to themselves as 'ethnic Slavs'? Have you ever heard Poles refer to Russians as their 'ethnic Slavic' kinsmen?

Serbs celebrate Slava day, Bulgarians also dont shy away from that termininolgy to much.

Have you ever heard Serbs refer to themselves as 'ethnic Slavs'? Have you ever heard Serbs refer to Bulgarians as their 'ethnic Slavic' kinsmen?

Can you see where I am going with the above? The term Slavic can only be a linguistic classification except for those that have assumed the term (or a variant of it) as a national or regional name, like Slovenia on the one hand or Slavonia (Croatia) on the other.

Some posters here on the other hand flat out deny any connection to it as some sort of disease.

Unfortunately, they do this because some of your people have done their best to manipulate the term with the aim of de-nationalising the Macedonians. I say fight back with logic and make those people who have manipulated the term look like the fools that they are.

Macedonia being closer to the front lines at the end resulted of being assimilated by the Slavic character of the region.............

Aside from the use of languages common to each other, how exactly do you define a Slavic 'character'?

When Greeks say you are Slavs, it is not to point out genetic differences but linguistic differences.

That may be what you mean (now), but that is not what most racist Greeks mean.

Slavs accomplished something that very few people can say. And that is it singlehandedly managed to spread their language across half of Europe. How anybody can find shame in that is beyond me.

That accomplishment wasn't a simple single-handed action by a specific ethnic or regional group. It involved a number of factors.

[Daskalot]

And not to forget SLOVAKIA on the topic of nations that stem their name from the word Slav/Slovo.

[Voltron]

Wow Slavic toponyms was all over the place even as far away as Crete, how did that happen Voltron?

I know in some cases the Byzantines themselves actually setteled them there. Where are you going with this Daskale ?

[Voltron]

Have you ever heard Poles refer to themselves as 'ethnic Slavs'? Have you ever heard Poles refer to Russians as their 'ethnic Slavic' kinsmen?

They dont have to. Its embedded in them, it would make no sense for them to even mention it. The Russians is a slightly different story. They have Viking and Tatar lineage in them. I believe the Poles are the "purest" of Slavs for the lack of a better term.

Have you ever heard Serbs refer to themselves as 'ethnic Slavs'? Have you ever heard Serbs refer to Bulgarians as their 'ethnic Slavic' kinsmen?

No, I havnt, but then again I dont know any Serbs. Why have a holiday named Slava ? If you dont acknowledge it ?

Can you see where I am going with the above? The term Slavic can only be a linguistic classification except for those that have assumed the term (or a variant of it) as a national or regional name, like Slovenia on the one hand or Slavonia (Croatia) on the other.

Yes, I see where you are going with this. Im not necessarily disagreeing.

Unfortunately, they do this because some of your people have done their best to manipulate the term with the aim of de-nationalising the Macedonians. I say fight back with logic and make those people who have manipulated the term look like the fools that they are.

SOM, My problem like most other Greeks is this. How does one reconcile two completely different events in history as one ? The very people that displaced the pre-slavic character of the region are now claiming it as their own. Its a classic example of taking on the identity of the people you sack. Its like trying to connect two different parrallel lines in history. Would the Europeans coming to the Americas make themselves Indian after a thousand years ?

Aside from the use of languages common to each other, how exactly do you define a Slavic 'character'?

Language, Paganism, Shamanism, Warfare, Customs, Traditions, Architecture, etc. whatever else made the Slav ethnos of those ages easily identifiable.

That may be what you mean (now), but that is not what most racist Greeks mean.

Just the ones that dont know the genetical impact of the Balkans. We all have them.

That accomplishment wasn't a simple single-handed action by a specific ethnic or regional group. It involved a number of factors.

It was mostly used as a figure of speech, but the end result is the same.

[George S.]

Don't forget voltron the slavs went through greece as well for all you know you might be a slav.There must be heaps of slavs in greece it's only a matter of admitting.Also the very people you persecute could in fact be macedonians & have you figured out that the macedonians didn't just disappear.The macedonians carried on throughout the millenia with the same identity called macedonian.