Who are the Slavs? - Citations and Sources

[Risto the Great]

I'm not saying nor suggesting that Slovaks or Slovenians are the same people. I'm telling you that in their languages their names mean Slav (when translated into English). In ENGLISH the word is Slav, in Slovak it is Slovak, in Slovenian it is Slovenian.

If you ask a Slovak what is the name of his language, he will tell you "Slovenský jazyk". If you ask him what is the name of the Slavic languages, which belong to the Indo-European group of languages, he will say "Slovanské jazyky" (plural of Slovanský jazyk). The WORD is the same, but it stands for two completely different things in different contexts.

I think you just don't understand, because it is very simple.

WORD Slovak = WORD Slav
Slovak is a nation, language, country
Slav is a language group

In ENGLISH they are different for the sake of avoiding confusion. In Slovak itself the confusion was solved in the late 19th century by changing the E in Slovenský to A, hence Slovanský. But the words are still of the same origin.

An example in English would be of German language and Germanic languages. German is one of the languages of the Germanic family of languages.

So, if we were to translate the word Slovenský (sk) or Slovenski (sl) into English in a literal manner, we would get: Slovak or Slovenian, i.e. Slav is one of the languages of the Slavic family of languages.

The danger of thinking about translations of words such as Slovak, Slovene into English is that there is simply increased room for confusion. Your interpretation of the meaning & translation of self-described words may be useful to Slovaks & Slovenes. It obviously has no place for Macedonians as they relate to nothing more than a lingual connection.

Your example about Germans is a compromised one. By using the word "Slav" (if this is indeed the English translation) instead of Slovak and/or Slovene in order to be consistent in your approach, it renders the statement more confusing.

Such that:
- German is one of the languages of the Germanic family of languages.
- Slav is one of the languages of the Slavic family of languages. (Except now we don't know whether we are talking about Slovaks or Slovenes. It simply does not make sense without qualifiers.)

I am still unable to determine what a Slav is.

[George S.]

Can anyone name me a country that has preserved it's language & culture right through the ages.Can you look me in the eye & because you have read your crap slav theories you are going to say that we are nothing but slavs.Because that's what you are slowly doing.You are slowly developing a chink in the macedonian armour that we are not macedonian but slavs.Do people know part of the smear campaign was to destroy the macedonian consciousness of the people.How by telling them that they are slavs.Both greece /serbia/bulgaria practised this propaganda.They were all out to destroy the people's consciousness for being a macedonian.You aren't any different you are doing it for them today you great internet warriors.You should all be ashamed of yourselves referring to each other as slavs & beleiving crap slav theories.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Can you look me in the eye & because you have read your crap slav theories you are going to say that we are nothing but slavs.

George, who here has said "we are nothing but slavs"? Can you quote them? The answer is no. Stop beating your chest and start using your brain. That would be better than making baseless allegations against people you can't even name.

You are slowly developing a chink in the macedonian armour that we are not macedonian but slavs.

Did Cyril, Methodius and other Macedonian saints and scholars also develop a 'chink' in the Macedonian armour by calling their language Slovjanski?

You aren't any different you are doing it for them today you great internet warriors.

That is utter rubbish.

You should all be ashamed of yourselves referring to each other as slavs & beleiving crap slav theories.

No, you should be ashamed of yourself for presenting our people as a bunch of ignorant clowns who aren't aware of their own history. You should be ashamed of yourself for promoting idiotic fictions like 70,000 year old rock theories. You should be ashamed of yourself for wanting to keep Macedonians in the dark about their history and not allowing them to gain a true understanding and appreciation of how they evolved as a people and what it was throughout history that impacted them on different levels.

Some of you really appear to live in a world of delusion where any and everything is Macedonian. I can't believe how you're unable to critically assess our own history and accept facts for what they are. You seriously must have an inferiority complex if you bitch about every contextual reference to 'Slavs' where it concerns Macedonia. I didn't know it was that easy for some of you super-patriots to have your identity shaken, you give the impression that the Macedonian identity is merely a pack of cards, ready to crumble at the mere whisper of the word 'Slavs'. Don't you think it is better for our people to be able to confront the word and be able to logically explain it? Or is sticking your head in a paper bag when you hear the word the way to go these days?

The Macedonian identity, culture and people are indigenous to Macedonia. Those are the facts. Here is another fact. All three components underwent certain changes as a result of invasions and influences over centuries of evolution. Who here denies this? While some of you like to criticise logic, none of you are prepared to come forth with your own suggestions as to how half of Europe speaks related languages. Let me know when one of you brave chaps is prepared to actually put the money where their mouth is and come up with a credible explanation.

[George S.]

SOM i would like to disagree with you.First & foremost we are macedonian.The slav name is a smear campaign by our enemies.The greeks,bulgarians & serbians.Name me one theory today that is accepted as truth today in a coherent way.You said you were looking for that special language what is it?? Paleo??What i'm saying is that our enemies are saying we are slavs.They are just theories & who knows who is right.?I will not capitulate to anyone on our so called slav heritage.We may have had some kind of influence but not to the extent of the annihilation of our macedonian identity.Just like the ventilator or the name change people are free to beleive what they want i prefer to be MACEDONIAN & not something concocted by the slav theorists.Lets agree to disagree.That is my 2 cents worth.I don;t usually subscribe to these so called slav theories but when isaw everyone going for open slather on each other.(if you want you can delete my comments as you may feel they have no relevance)

[Soldier of Macedon]

SOM i would like to disagree with you.First & foremost we are macedonian.

We are Macedonians first and foremost. Who here has said that we aren't? Why are you creating arguments out of thin air? It's not that you disagree with what I am writing, you simply just don't understand it.

The slav name is a smear campaign by our enemies.

Are you going to answer my previous question? What did Cyril and Methodius and the other Macedonian saints and scholars call our language in the 9th and 10th centuries?

You said you were looking for that special language what is it?? Paleo??

Further evidence of how utterly ignorant you are where it concerns historical linguistics.

What i'm saying is that our enemies are saying we are slavs.

I know, and don't worry about trying to understand what 'Slavs' are so we can argue convincingly against such assertions, just put your head in a paper bag and pray for the term to disappear.

I will not capitulate to anyone on our so called slav heritage.

What Slav heritage?

We may have had some kind of influence but not to the extent of the annihilation of our macedonian identity.

That's what I am saying too. But you can't see this because you have your blinkers on and are misconstruing my words.

That is my 2 cents worth.

That's about all it is worth. George, I have always considered you a good guy, but when it comes to historical linguistics you don't have a clue, and it is sad that you have formed an opinion without actually reading into the matter in more detail. But, to each his own.

[George S.]

Yes they erroneously seemed to claim that we are slavs.Slavjani.If it was said long enough & convincing enough to make it we were slavs by their assesment.But the facts speak otherwise we did have influnces from many people,did they change our identity no,did they have some kind of influence yes.The slavs went through other countries as well labelling them as slavs might not be right because they were influnced in the same way.Som i think we seem to agree on something then.

[Soldier of Macedon]

George, for the third time mate, please answer this question:

What did Cyril and Methodius and the other Macedonian saints and scholars call our language in the 9th and 10th centuries?

[George S.]

Ok then sOM you were going to announce that what some language you have found.
Also maybe you could write in a summary fashion what you have found out about the slavs.I can tell you that i get easily upset that the truth might out that we are not macedonian but slavs.This innate fear.
As i said why don't you put in a summary fashion what you have found out about the slavs
& i won't criticise anything (not a threat).
I think deep down wed all like to know the truth heres your opportunity I'm all ears!

[George S.]

Sorry som didn't they call it slavjanski.??
Ok the thing that set me off is all that arguing you guys were going on.Also speaking for myself i don't want to be in the dark if you can enlighten us on the slavs like a page summary nice & simple for my benefit i'll shut up & eat humble pie.In the past i have allways taken your word & beleived what you said coz yyou are the best of the best.
Also it's not easy trying to follow what you & slovak were upto.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Ok then sOM you were going to announce that what some language you have found.

George, why are you refusing to answer the question I asked with regard to the Macedonian saints? I will give you the answer anyway, and if you've been reading this thread you should already know - they called it Slovjanski. Don't hide from it, instead, confront it, understand it, then challenge it when it is raised in an inappropriate manner. That is the way to go, and not this approach of sweeping it under the rug that some of you seem to be proposing.

As i said why don't you put in a summary fashion what you have found out about the slavs & i won't criticise anything (not a threat).

I already have, in several threads. I don't care if you criticise what I am writing George, I just want your criticism to be based on logic. Surely that isn't too much to ask.

I can tell you that i get easily upset that the truth might out that we are not macedonian but slavs.This innate fear.

That is an unfounded fear based on an inferiority complex. We have nothing to be fearful of, because we are Macedonians, and that is what we have always been. Shake off your fear and confront the issue with courage, you will see that the truth isn't anywhere near as dangerous for us as you may currently think.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Sorry som didn't they call it slavjanski.??

Ok, so are they traitors, slavs, etc?

In the past i have allways taken your word & beleived what you said coz yyou are the best of the best.

Thanks George, and while it is good to know that you take my word (at least in most cases) on these issues, it would be better if more people started to develop a greater understanding so that when they do challenge something, they actually know what they're talking about. Sure, we can pretend that this particular issue doesn't require discussion, but then when somebody says why is the phrase "give me milk and bread" essentially the same in Macedonia (daj mi mleko i leb) as it is in Poland (daj mi mleko i chleb) or Russia (dajte mne moloko i hleb), we won't be any wiser and capable to address it. Think about it. We need to arm ourselves with knowledge and understanding.

[Risto the Great]

George, do you understand the following expression used by Russians (amongst others):

добрый вечер

If you do, are you Russian?

[George S.]

coming to terms is hard because i allways thought i was a macedonian & then bang the rug has been pulled from under us.WE have to learn to live with it & adapt.Sometimes the truth is not palatable but that's the truth.I think we have to come to a realization of who we are.

[George S.]

Rist dobro vecer.To me i allways thought their language & alphabet was given to them by cyril & methodius.It's hard to realise anyother way.I allways thought that the russians used our cyrillic alphabet & orthodox religion.I allways thought that russians spoke like macedonian with an accent.

[Soldier of Macedon]

coming to terms is hard because i allways thought i was a macedonian & then bang the rug has been pulled from under us.

We are Macedonians. There is no rug. Some of you are just falling over for no valid reason.

To me i allways thought their language & alphabet was given to them by cyril & methodius.It's hard to realise anyother way.

There are some historical points which indicate that (European) Russians were already speaking a related (Slavic) language prior to Cyril and Methodius.