Why all the names of the cities of the people and months and gods were greek?

[Agamoi Thytai]

GREEK CLAIM: "Macedonians had Greek names All the ancient Macedonian names mentioned in history or found on tombs are Greek. All the kings of Ancient Macedonia had Greek names. Alexander's name is Greek. Philip's name is also Greek".

REPLY:

The Macedonians did not have Greek names. It is acutely judging by the distinctiveness of the surviving Macedonian names and glosses, that many scholars proved that the Macedonians were not Greek.

All scholars agree the great majority of Macedonian names and toponyms were Greek.Show me one who says the opposite.

"In our view the Greek character of most names is obvious and it is difficult to think of a Hellenization due to wholesale borrowing. Πτολεμαίος (Ptolemaios) is attested as early as Homer,Αλέξανδρος (Alexandros) occurs next to the Mycenaean feminine a-re-ka-sa-da-ra"

http://books.google.com/books?lr=&ei=LYv4Sf6eCZHAzQTQx5GGBQ&hl=el&id=vyxoAAAAMAAJ&dq=The+Oxford+companion+to+classical+civilization&q=ptolemaios&pgis=1#search_anchor

"The philological studies result in a verdict, in my opinion, of non liquet.The toponyms of the Macedonian homeland are the most significant. Nearly all of them are Greek: Pieria, Lebaea. Heracleum. Dium. Petra. Leibethra, Aegeae,Aegydium,Acesae,Acesamenae; the rivers Helicon, Aeson,Leucus,Baphyras,Sardon, Elpeus, Mitys; lake Ascoris and the region Lapathus. The mountain names Olympus and Titarium may be pre-Greek; Edessa. The earlier name of the place where Aegeae was founded, and its river Ascordus were Phrygian".
"The deities worshipped by the Macedonians and the names which they gave to the months were predominantly Greek,and there is no doubt that these were not late borrowings"

http://books.google.com/books?id=dJRvJjKeijoC&pg=PA20&dq=the+language+of+the+macedonians+n+g+l+hammond&lr=&ei=AJb4SbfCPI-6ygTS7tyLBQ&hl=el

"These however are only trifles compared with the Greek character of the Macedonian nationality; for example, the names of the true full-blooded Macedonians, especially of the princes and nobles, are purely Greek in their formation and sounds"

http://books.google.com/books?id=WiSZM-LYsk4C&pg=PA23&lpg=PA23&dq=These+however+are+only+trifles+compared+with+the+Greek+character+of+the+Macedonian+nationality%3B+for+example,+the+names+of+the+true+full-blooded+Macedonians,+especially+of+the+princes+and+nobles,+are+purely+Greek+in+their+formation+and&hl=el

Today, people of different ethnic backgrounds carry same names like Peter, David, Daniel, etc.

This happened in ancient time to a very limited extend.One could find few individuals with foreign names,not populations of whole towns and regions

These names are universal just like the names of Alexander and Philip were, and therefore, these names are not a proof that the Macedonians were Greek, since these names are found in other non-Greek nations.

The names Alexander and Philip became universal only in Roman time.It was impossible in 400 or 300 BC to find the inhabitnats of Thracian,Illyrian or Paeonian towns bearing Greek names to a high rate such as 90-95%.In fact,there are inscriptions dating as late as 2AD century proving the vast majority of people in southern Thracian towns very close to Hellenic colonies still bore their native names and only a tiny 10-15% had Greek names.This was definitely not the case in Macedonia,where Greek names constituted the 90-95% of the total in early 4BC century.

GREEK CLAIM: "Some more ancient Macedonian names can be found Aristotelis - Famous phiosopher, born in Stageira, Hermias - Philosopher, Anaksarxos - Philosopher, Marsias - Writer, Zoilos - Writer, Leocharis - Sculptor, Lysippos - Sculptor, Deinokratis - He helped Alexander to create Alexandria in Egypt, Calisthenis - Historian, Aristoboulos - Historian, Aristokritos - Actor, Thessalos - Actor, friend of Alexander's, Nearchos - Navy commander, Callisthenis, Eumenis, Leonatos, Memmon"

REPLY:

Here we find a clear distortion of history by the modern Greek propaganda. All these names that the Greek propaganda here would like to portray as "Macedonian names" are in fact names of the ethnic Greeks (not of Macedonians), which served in the train of Alexander the Great. Memnon was a Greek who even fought against Alexander, yet the Greek propaganda calls his name Macedonian? This is indeed absurd. Interesting (inadvertent) reversals in Hammond narrative:

"Aristotle, born at Stageira on the Macedonian border and the son of a Greek doctor at the Macedonian court, classed the Macedonians and their institution of Monarchy as not Greek, as we shall see shortly. It is thus not surprising that the Macedonians considered themselves to be, and were treated by Alexander the Great as being, separate from the Greeks. They were proud to be so." "Philip and Alexander attracted many able foreigners, especially Greeks, to their service, and many of these were made Companions (e.g. Nearchus a Cretan, Eumenes a citizen of Cardia, and Sitalces a member of the Odrysian royal family). Some of them, if they served in the King's Army, were given Macedonian citizenship, which apparently was in the gift of the king." Hammond The Macedonian State p.141

Even Hammond states that the above names (that the Greek propaganda is presenting) were names of Greeks, who were foreigners in the Macedonian train. Therefore, the above statement coming from the Greek propaganda can not serve as a "proof" that the "Macedonians were Greek", since the above names were not Macedonian, but Greek.

Here i agree with you,most,if not all of these people were not Macedonians and if some Greeks claim they were i consider it idiotic.However i've seen many Macedonians claiming Aristotle was Macedonian

[George S.]

if aristotle was not macedonian how come the athenians banished him from athens for being macedonian.THe greeks have a habit of lying when they say there are no macedonians when clearly there are it's a matter of denial & living in cuckooland.

[Agamoi Thytai]

one is just macedonian & the other has got biblical origins.

If you mean the first list contains Christian names mainly of Greek and Jewish origin that are commonly used in all Orthodox countries,while in the second one there are included only names of pure Macedonian origin,i see many Greek names in this second list as well.

[Agamoi Thytai]

if aristotle was not macedonian how come the athenians banished him from athens for being macedonian.THe greeks have a habit of lying when they say there are no macedonians when clearly there are it's a matter of denial & living in cuckooland.

What?Now you claim Aristotle was Macedonian too while in your first post you didn't consider him as Macedonian?What happened and you changed your view?What matters if Athenians banished him,does this prove he was Macedonian?Athenians banished many of their own prominent citizens,like Aristeides,Themistocles and Thucydides,why should Aristotle be spared,a non Athenian citizen?

[George S.]

he was banished for his non greekness.Also the greeks wrote stuff about anything hundreds of years after the event we would all question some of the things they have to say about the greekness of macedonia.Also do you understand what to hellenise something if someone's name is phillip the greeks make it philipos.If someone is called risto aristidis.There is no end the practice of naming & renaming of people after the 1913 balkan wars making people take up greek names to make it look like greece is pure greek.

[Serdarot]

dunno if such topics are worth digginīthem out, but anyway...

Only blind and stupid are ignoring the facts that:

the Ancient Macedonians were Peli (P=B, one of the basic rules of the Macedonian Language is the "Equaling by sound"), meaning white, as well as showing who were their Ancestors (the Pelaski, Pelazgi, Pelazgoi, Pelazgians)

They were NATIVES
---------------------
the Ancient Gar-ci or Graeki were GAR, or Black. They were SETTLERS.

btw, most of their ethymologies are funny, and over 80 % of the mentioned names (and many others) have perfect meaning in our, Macedonian Language.

It is sad our "academics" are not doing anything in that direction...

[George S.]

The greeks have a habit of adopting other people's names & adopting them or changing them for a particular meaning.

[Agamoi Thytai]

he was banished for his non greekness.

Why is it that no historian agrees with you?

Also do you understand what to hellenise something if someone's name is phillip the greeks make it philipos.

There was no such name as Philip,the correct form was Philippos because it has a perfect meaning in Greek language."Philip" doesn't mean anything in any language.Now if you have to suggest any etymology for "Philip" in modern Macedonian language,on the other hand thousands of scholars and linguists worldwide will confirm the Greek etymology and not even bother with your theories.The word Philippos is attested in ancient Greek authors who wrote their works long before Philip's time:

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/wordfreq?lang=greek&lookup=fi%2Flippos

If someone is called risto aristidis.

If someone is called Risto his name derives from Christos.

[Agamoi Thytai]

dunno if such topics are worth digginīthem out, but anyway...

Only blind and stupid are ignoring the facts that:

the Ancient Macedonians were Peli (P=B, one of the basic rules of the Macedonian Language is the "Equaling by sound"), meaning white, as well as showing who were their Ancestors (the Pelaski, Pelazgi, Pelazgoi, Pelazgians)

They were NATIVES
---------------------
the Ancient Gar-ci or Graeki were GAR, or Black. They were SETTLERS.

btw, most of their ethymologies are funny, and over 80 % of the mentioned names (and many others) have perfect meaning in our, Macedonian Language.

It is sad our "academics" are not doing anything in that direction...

The only problem for you is that apart from few people on that forum no one else believes you.If you really find funny the Greek etymologies of these names why don't you try to convince all linguists worldwide how stupid they are that they don't have realized so far these names are actually Macedonian!So don't wonder why your academics don't try anything such,it would be the same as if someone was trying to convince the rest of the world that Earth is flat.And,to begin with,what is the meaning in Macedonian of the names Atanas,Apostol,Angel,Argir,Arseni,Damian,Dimitar,E ftim,Georgi,Gligor,Vangel?

[Makedonetz]

Agamoi Thytai

So do you greeks deny every "greek Scholer" who had a view that Macedonians did exist their writings are wrong get your head out of Zeus nutsack....so we should cross out Thrasymachus, Polybius, Plutarch and Isocrates because they were againts the greek myth....so who do you guys have in the history books who claim greece and macedonia was different. Boy your selection is geting thin there.

examples.....

Ptolemy of Alexandria is an author of a great geographical work in which he produced maps of various ancient countries in Europe, Asia, and Africa. His map of Macedonia is clearly separated from Greece, Illyria, and Thrace. He also produced a map of Albania which in ancient times was in Asia, parallel to the map of Illyria in Europe, which makes it clear that the Albanians and the Illyrians had always been two separate nations.

"In all there were about three thousand Hellenic heavy infantry, accompanied by all the Macedonian cavalry with the Chalcidians, near one thousand strong, besides an immense crowd of barbarians." (Thucydides 4.124)

Shell we being Greeks, be slaves to Archelaus, a barbarian?"

This line the Greek Thrasymachus attributed to the Macedonian king Archelaus who occupied Greek land with his Macedonian army. Since the ancient Greeks stereotyped and called all non-Greeks barbarian, it is clear that Thrasymachus does not consider neither the Macedonian king nor his nation to be Greek, but foreigners to the ancient Greek world. The modern Greeks, however, would like to claim the ancient Macedonians as Greek. Here is what Professor Borza (a Macedonian specialist and expert on the ethnicity of the Macedonians) had written on that matter

Herodotus
Ancient Greek Writer



The modern Greek position relies on Herodotus' support for their quest to make the ancient Macedonians Greek. Herodotus, being one of the foremost biographer in antiquity who lived in Greece at the time when the Macedonian king Alexander I was in power, is said to have visited the Macedonian Kingdom and supposedly, profited from this excursion, wrote several short passages about the Macedonians. What did he say, and to what extent can these passages be taken as evidence for the alleged 'greekness' of the ancient Macedonians, will be briefly presented for your adjudication.

"Why is it that no Spartan or Athenian or Argive felt constrained to prove to the others that he and his family were Helenes? But Macedonian kings seem hard put to argue in behalf of their Hellenic ancestry in the fifth century B.C., and that circumstance is telling. Even if one were to accept that all the Herodotian stories about Alexander were true, why did the Greeks, who normally were knowledgeable about matters of ethnic kinship, not already know that the Macedonian monarchy was Greek? But--following Herodotus--the stade- race competitors at Olympia thought the Macedonian was a foreigner (Hdt. 5.22: barbaros) Second, for his effort on behalf of the Greek cause against the Persians Alexander is known as "Philhellene". Now this is kind of odd to call a Greek a "friend of the Greeks". "This title", writes Borza, "is normally reserved for non-Greeks".

[Risto the Great]

Makedonetz, I have no desire to see swearing on this forum at the best of times. I have even less desire to see swearing in Greek. While we are at it, I see no reason to spell Greece without a capital G. Do we really need to be as small minded as many Greeks are in relation to Balkan matters?

[Makedonetz]

my apologies and my apologies for giving that name a courtesy with a capital G. appropiate changes have been made

[Serdarot]

The only problem for you is that apart from few people on that forum no one else believes you.If you really find funny the Greek etymologies of these names why don't you try to convince all linguists worldwide how stupid they are that they don't have realized so far these names are actually Macedonian!So don't wonder why your academics don't try anything such,it would be the same as if someone was trying to convince the rest of the world that Earth is flat.And,to begin with,what is the meaning in Macedonian of the names Atanas,Apostol,Angel,Argir,Arseni,Damian,Dimitar,E ftim,Georgi,Gligor,Vangel?

lol, i have to be more precise in future.

Sorry, most of the ethymologies you DARE to present are funny, but for MOST of the Ancient Names you have (or had) NO EXPLANATION, the only explanation was "unknown origin", "arhaic", "meaning unknown", etc...

- the whole world tought that the earth was flat, but few people prooved it is not.

But in your ("greek") case, i can not use even this example, couse only in the last ~ 100 - 200 years your creators (germany and uk) spred the myth about the "godly greeks, all blond with blue eyes"

Also in that period, many Historians disagreed with that myth, but surely before that, no idiot or "academic" would equal the Ancient Greeks and the Ancient Macedonians.

You speak about "the World", but you mean "western world", with itīs ~ 500 milion citizens?

For your information, the Humanity is ~ 7 bilions. The 500 milion are "the World" for you, couse you are limited in your brain.

I dont think the Rusians, the Chinese, and many other Nations and Countries, agree with you megalo-policy and "history"

Speaking about "worldwide", It is worldwide recognized fact that the Macedonian Language is between the oldest in the World.

But in your fascist state you donīt even bother to do some serious researches about the Macedonian Language, from several reasons (occupying over 50 % of MY grandfathers land is sure one of those reasons, and the genocids made from "greeks" over MY ethnicity

I hope you are not insulted couse i use that termin for your country, but it is fascist state, without minorities, and that "whole world is greek" bs as oficial state policy..

I mean, do you keep your head sticked in your arses, or you are naturaly stupid, or just evil?

Dude, good if you want to discuss ethymology about the names featured between MY Ethnos - the Macedonians.

Specialy couse i love some of the names you mentioned, like Dimitria, but i simply have to ask you something:

Do you fīkn have any idea, what "ethnos" means?

[Serdarot]

RtG:

that "state" will deserve a capital G when it start to behave as a State.

I dont see a reason to show some respect for the "greeks", when i see what they do, and they donīt show the smallest regret for what they or their ancestors have made.

Simply said, why should WE show hospitality, when they are making one after another act of hostility?

They come on YOUR forum to insult you, to spread propaganda, let offer them some more Macedonian Land for that?

If some citizen of that state start a normal conversation, ok, but all they do is trolling...

[Risto the Great]

It is no big deal regarding the capital G.
I used to do that years ago. I guess I just grew up and realised that it looks a little petty as well as being grammatically incorrect. I would much rather be a nuisance to Greeks in other ways.