Why all the names of the cities of the people and months and gods were greek?

[George S.]

Athanssos

Thats rubbish the slavic words are more related to the macedonian than the greek ones.Any liguistic person can tell you that there is no such thing as slavic its a label they put on it.

[Pelister]

Wouldn't it be a good idea to write to each Professor (on the list posted by Athanasisus), individually to get their professional opinion on whether New Greeks have the right to claim to be ancient Hellenes, and whether they can produce any historical evidence to support this proposition.

[Pelister]

Evangelos Kofos:"....The period between 1878 and 1886, covers the critical years from the Congress of Berlin to the annexation of Eastern Rumelia by Bulgaria, when Greek policy on the Macedonian Question was undergoing a general reappraisal. Balkan historiography tends to view this policy in terms of its adverse effects on the national movements of the other Balkan nationalities; it is understandable. Now, with the aid of hitherto untapped archival material—mostly from the Archives of the Greek Ministry of Foreign Affairs (AYE) this paper will attempt to examine how Greek policy was formulated, what its aims were and how it was carried out.

Prior to the 70’s, the Greeks viewed Macedonia as one of the Ottoman regions which would form part of an enlarged Greek state....

To support their claim, the Greeks argued on a number of points. Historically, they sought to trace the region’s hellenic ties all the way back to antiquity and Alexander the Great. Ethnologically, they identified the nationality of the inhabitants on the basis of their Church affiliation; and this meant the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople. Politically, they felt they could move into a vacuum, once the Empire collapsed. Serbia was a small and far away state, while Bulgaria did not even exist an the political map of the Balkans.

With such reasoning in the 40’s, 50’s, and even the 60’s, the Greeks of Athens were betraying an ignorance of basic facts about the situation in Macedonia, and the Balkans as a whole. Their distorted vision, however, prevented them from drawing out a realistic policy in their discussions for an alliance with the Serbs in the 60’, as well as in the ecclesiastical dispute with the Bulgarians.

Their illusions, however, were shattered by the events of the 70’s. First came the establishment of a Bulgarian National Church, by Ottoman firman. Then followed the San Stefano treaty, which placed under Bulgarian rule—on paper at least—most of the Macedonian districts. Both these developments, which affected Macedonia, came about as a result of forces which Hellenism could not control. Greek reaction to both occasions was negative. On the San Stefano treaty, they sided with the revisionist Balkan and European Powers. And although, at the Congress of Berlin the voice of the Greek Kingdom was no more than a whisper, the "Greek card" was used by Western diplomats—particularly the British—in order to restore Macedonia and Thrace to Ottoman rule.

So the stage had been set at Berlin for a long inter-Balkan conflict. The political status of Macedonia had remained unaltered. But the Macedonian Question had taken up new dimensions....."

So, there was a time when they claimed it was all Macedonia! Someone should remind BakoYani, Karamanli and the rest of the Neo-Hellenes about historical revisionism and rewriting of history that is set in stone. :-)

Yes. The more I read the more I believe that the Powers had the power to free Macedonia, or keep her enslaved.

It took another turn in the 1870's with the publication of Gladstones "The Hellenic Factor in the Eastern Question".

It appears that British politicians usually believed the garbage being fed to them by the Greeks, particularly information on the state of things on the ground, i.e., who lived there.

As you say the Turkish returns were manipulated by the Greeks, and they in turn manipulated phil-hellenes and lovers of ancient Greece in Europe with gross distortions.

What the Hansards in British parliament indicate is that while the fate of Macedonia was being discussed - the Macedonians were almost never mentioned. And politicians were discussing it in terms of "Claims" or who had the stronger claim - Bulgaria or Greece. What these discussions bring to light or demonstrate is that Greek and Bulgarian political units and agents were working overtime.

We can only compare and contrast this ignorance and distortion with any one of the numerous British fact finding missions in Macedonia, which go back to the 1860's. The Macedonians uprising of 1878, which took 3 years for the Ottomans to finally control appears to have been lost on them too etc.

Too many cover ups, too many deliberate omissions, and no voice.

[Pelister]

I know this member has been banned, but I just couldn't leave this one alone.

When discussing Macedonia, the greek argument, as above, always gets stalled in antiquity. The slavic tribes may or may not have any relevance to Ancient Macedonia, this is beside the point. Macedonian history doesn't begin and end in the hellenistic period. What is important in this debate is not was Macedonia was, but what it became.

Another often used but equally dubious argument that would have undoubtedly been put forth had the member not been banned is the haggared "Geographic Ancient Macedonia didn't include medievil Macedonia". This in my opinion is nonsensical. Historiacally various regions of the world have expanded and sometimes contracted. The history of Macedonia has been fluid and to simply take a snapshot in time is doing it's history an injustice.

So true. It is as though their identity is "stuck" in a period of history from about 5th century B.C to the 4th century B.C and that there was nothing before and after. I can't read it - its literally too painful and hurts my head.

[Bill77]

This phenomena when the ancient Greeks substitute the names of the foreign gods with names of their own gods, is called interpretatio graeca. In the ancient Greek texts we also find the Greeks referring to one Egyptian God as Egyptian Athena. Of course, the real name of this Egyptian god can not be Athena

Actually, the name of this Egyptian god was called "Neith"

"Apollonius Rhodius (.iv.1310) tells us that the goddess Athene was born beside Lake Triton in Libya. The goddess Athene, was called Neith by the Egyptians and Nia by the Cretans in Linear A writing. This shows that the Garamantes took this god to Europe".

The Garamantes or Carians originally lived in the Fezzan ( a remote region in Libya). These Garamante were described by the Latin classical writers as black or dark skinned: perusti (Lucan 4.679), furvi (Arnoloius, Adversus Nationes , 6.5) and nigri (Anthologia Latina, 155,no.183).

Now you understand why this Athenian called Demosthenes said to Phillip "not only no Greek, nor related to the Greeks",?
Thats because Macedonians were not Black.

[George S.]

If you look at the greeks they were colonisers & over many years adopted alott of things other people's ideas their gods etc it's all endless.The very names they say is greek are actually macedonian names they forgot when they had adopted them.When one examines the detail about their question one finds that they have no substance at all.

[Agamoi Thytai]

If you look at the greeks they were colonisers & over many years adopted alott of things other people's ideas their gods etc it's all endless.The very names they say is greek are actually macedonian names they forgot when they had adopted them.When one examines the detail about their question one finds that they have no substance at all.

I didn't get it what you actually mean.Are you refering to ancient or modern time?Write some examples of such names that are not of Greek origin but we insist to consider them Greek.As far as the names of the months are concerned,January,February e.t.c. these are Latin names and i have not heard of any Greek so far claiming they are Greek names.

[George S.]

GREEK CLAIM: "Macedonians had Greek names All the ancient Macedonian names mentioned in history or found on tombs are Greek. All the kings of Ancient Macedonia had Greek names. Alexander's name is Greek. Philip's name is also Greek".

REPLY:

The Macedonians did not have Greek names. It is acutely judging by the distinctiveness of the surviving Macedonian names and glosses, that many scholars proved that the Macedonians were not Greek. Today, people of different ethnic backgrounds carry same names like Peter, David, Daniel, etc. These names are universal just like the names of Alexander and Philip were, and therefore, these names are not a proof that the Macedonians were Greek, since these names are found in other non-Greek nations.

GREEK CLAIM: "Some more ancient Macedonian names can be found Aristotelis - Famous phiosopher, born in Stageira, Hermias - Philosopher, Anaksarxos - Philosopher, Marsias - Writer, Zoilos - Writer, Leocharis - Sculptor, Lysippos - Sculptor, Deinokratis - He helped Alexander to create Alexandria in Egypt, Calisthenis - Historian, Aristoboulos - Historian, Aristokritos - Actor, Thessalos - Actor, friend of Alexander's, Nearchos - Navy commander, Callisthenis, Eumenis, Leonatos, Memmon"

REPLY:

Here we find a clear distortion of history by the modern Greek propaganda. All these names that the Greek propaganda here would like to portray as "Macedonian names" are in fact names of the ethnic Greeks (not of Macedonians), which served in the train of Alexander the Great. Memnon was a Greek who even fought against Alexander, yet the Greek propaganda calls his name Macedonian? This is indeed absurd. Interesting (inadvertent) reversals in Hammond narrative:

"Aristotle, born at Stageira on the Macedonian border and the son of a Greek doctor at the Macedonian court, classed the Macedonians and their institution of Monarchy as not Greek, as we shall see shortly. It is thus not surprising that the Macedonians considered themselves to be, and were treated by Alexander the Great as being, separate from the Greeks. They were proud to be so." "Philip and Alexander attracted many able foreigners, especially Greeks, to their service, and many of these were made Companions (e.g. Nearchus a Cretan, Eumenes a citizen of Cardia, and Sitalces a member of the Odrysian royal family). Some of them, if they served in the King's Army, were given Macedonian citizenship, which apparently was in the gift of the king." Hammond The Macedonian State p.141

Even Hammond states that the above names (that the Greek propaganda is presenting) were names of Greeks, who were foreigners in the Macedonian train. Therefore, the above statement coming from the Greek propaganda can not serve as a "proof" that the "Macedonians were Greek", since the above names were not Macedonian, but Greek.

Eugene Borza "Makedonika" on the number of Greeks serving the Macedonian king together with the Macedonians:

"Of the nearly 850 persons listed by Berve, 275 are either certainly or probably ethnic Greeks. Of this number, 126 persons are not associated with Alexander's train, and thus outside present concerns. Of the 149 which remain, 69-- nearly half-- are court figures not associated with administration. They include sophists, physicians, actors, athletes, musicians, jugglers, and other entertainers, and a variety of hangers-on. 89 names remain. Of these three are of uncertain ethnic origin. 24 Greeks serve the king in variety of administrative tasks: some are envoys, some are clerks, some financial officers, some act as king's agents in local places. They pop in and out of the historical record as Alexander sees the need to employ them. The remaining 53 Greeks serve specific military functions. Out of these 53 persons, 22 names are attached to a single unit (the allies from Orchomenos), who, by the way, are dismissed along with the other Greek allies in 330 B.C. (Only a few short years into the expedition). Fourteen other Greeks hold naval appointments, either as ship commanders in the Hydaspes fleet, or in conjunction with Nearchus' ocean voyage. Four Greeks are in charge of mercenary units, and 9 others have unspecified, low- level military assignments. Seven have duties that did not take them beyond Egypt. In summary, of the 149 known Greeks with official connections to the king, only 35 to 40 held positions of rank- some as officers, some as administrators, but only a handful in top positions." "Thus we look in vain for the evidence that Alexander was heavily dependent upon Greeks either in quantity or quality."

[George S.]

Macedonian names

Macedonian First Names

Male

Aco Aleksandar Alekso
Andon Andrei Andrej
Ane Angel Apostol
Argir Arseni Atanas
Bale Be!ikola Blagojce
Blasko Bobi Bojan
Borce Borche Boris
Borislav Branimir Branko
Christian Cvetko Dame
Damjan Deivit Deyan
Dicho Dimche Dime
Dimitar Dobri Dragan
Dragi Dusan Dusko
Dzhole Edin Efrem
Evtim Filip George
Georges Georgi Georgios
Gligor Goce Gono
Goran Grigor Hristo
Hristos Igor Ile
Ilija Ilyo Iosif
Ivan Jamin Jerzi
Jovan Jovce Jovica
Jozo Kirce Kire
Kiril Kirili Kiro
Kolyo Konstantin Kosta
Kral Kristijan Krste
Krsto Krunislav Kuzman
Kuzo Lazar Lazo
Lecho Lenka Ljupco
Lubi Lucio Luka
Lupcho Maksim Marjan
Mate Metodi Michal
Mihail Milan Mile
Mirche Mishe Mito
Mitse Mladen Naum
Nenad Nicolaos Nikodemos
Nikola Nikolce Oerica
Ognen Pablo Panayot
Pandil Pando Pavel
Pere Pesho Petar
Petse Petvqar Photios
Psaltir Raiko Risto
Sacha Sando Sasa
Sasha Sasho Saso
Sava Serije Simeon
Sinisa Slaveiko Slavko
Slobodan Sofroni Spiro
Stamat Stefan Stefo
Stephen Stipe Stoile
Stojan Stojce Stoyan
Tane Tase Tasos
Tihomir Tito Todor
Toli Toma Tome
Traiko Trendafil Tushe
Vasil Vasko Vassil
Velyo Veton Vladimir
Vlado Vlatko Vojco
Yordan Zlatko
Female

Ana Anita Anna
Annika Christina Edina
Ekaterina Emilija Epsa
Gona Hilda Irena
Ivica Jasmina Jasminka
Jordanka Jovica Katerina
Lidija Lisa Metodija
Monika Nevena Oana
Olivia Sandra Snezana
Susanna Svetlana Tanja
Tanya Tarpena Vasja
Vaska Vesna Violeta
etc etc etc etc

[George S.]

To the grk skapani

Macedonian Male Names of Biblical Origin
From the 1996 Orthodox Calendar, published by the
Holy Synod of the Macedonian Orthodox Church
(contributed by Hristijan Delev)

A Avakum Avram Agapij Adam Aleksandar
Alimpij Atanas Angel Angelarij Andon
Andrej Angjelko Antim Antonij Apostol
Ariton Arsenij Artemij Arhangle Atanasij
B Blagoj Blagun Blazhe Bogatin Bogdan
Bogoja Bogoljub Bogomil Bogoslav Bozhidar
Bozhin Bojan Boris Boshko Branimir
Branslav Branko
V Vangel Varnava Vasil Veljan Venijamin
Veselin Vidoe Vikentij Vladimir Vlastimir
G Gavril Georgij Gerasim Gligor Gligorij
Gorazd Goran Gorjan Goce Grigor
Grigorij Grozdan
D David Damaskin Damjan Danail Dejan
Deljan Despot Dimitar Dimitrij Diogen
Dobre Dojchin Doksim Doncho Dorotej
Dragan Dukdin Dushan
GJ GJerasim GJero GJoko GJore GJoshe
GJorgjija GJorche GJuro GJurchin GJurshin
E Evgenij Elisie Erazmo Eremija Efimij
Emanuel
ZH ZHarko ZHelimir ZHivko ZHivorad
Z Zafir Zaharie Zdravko Zlatan Zlatko
Zograf Zoran
DZ DZvezdan DZvonko
I Ivan Ignat Ignatij Igor Ilarion
Ilija Inokentij Iraklij Irinej Isaija
Isidor Ice
J Jakim Jakov Janaki Jane Joanikij
Joakim Jovan Jonko Jordan Josif
K Kalistrat Kiprijan Kiril Kitan Kliment
Kozma Konstantin Kostadin Krale Krste
Kuzman
L Lavrentij Lazar Lambe Leonid Leontie
Lefter Luka
LJ LJube LJuben LJubomir LJupcho LJudmil
M Makaraie Makedon Maksim Manoil Manol
Manojlo Marin Marko Matea Matej
Metodij Miladin Mile Mirko Miron
Miroslav Misail Mitan Mitre Mihail
Mladen Mojsej Mojsie
N Najden Nase Naste Natanail Naum
Nace Nakje Neven Nedelko Nektarij
Noefit Nestor Nikanor Nikita Nikifor
Nikodim Nikola Novak Nove
O Ognen Ordan Orce
P Pavle Pandil Pane Pantelejmon Panche
Partenij Paskal Pahomij Pejko Petar
Petko Pimen Plamencho Polikarp Prodan
Projko Prokopij Prohor
R Radovan Radomir Radoslav Razmo Rajko
Rangel Ranko Rastko Ratko Ratomir
Rafael Ristan Riste Rodoljub Romil
Ruse Rusomir
S Save Sazdan Samoil Sande Sarafil
Sare Sasho Svetislav Svetozar Svetolik
Svetomir Serafim Siljan Simon Slave
Slavoljub Slobodan Smile Solunche Sofronija
Spasen Spiridon Srebre Sreten Stamen
Stefan Stojan
T Tanas Tase Tashko Temelko Teodor
Teodosij Teofan Teofil Teofilakt Timotej
Tihomir Trajan Todor Trifun Trpe
KJ KJire KJirko
F Fidan Filimon Filip Firfo Flore
Fotij
H Hranislav Hristijan Hristo Hristifor
C Cane Cvetan
CH CHaslav CHedo CHedomir
SH SHane SHishko
Macedonian Female Names of Biblical Origin
From the 1996 Orthodox Calendar, published by the
Holy Synod of the Macedonian Orthodox Church
(contributed by Hristijan Delev)

A Agnija Aleksandra Ana Anamarija Anastasija
Angela Angelina Angja Anisija Arsenija
Atanasija
B Bebcena Biljana Bisera Bistra Blagica
Blagorodna Blaguna Blazhena Bogdana Bogoslava
Bozhana Bozhidarka Bojana Borjana Bosilka
V Valentina Vangelija Vangja Vanka Varvara
Vasa Vasilija Vasilka Velika Veljana
Vera Veronika Vesela Vesna Veta
Vida Vita Vishna Vosreksija Vrosinka
G Gajtana Galena Gena Gerasimka Gina
Glikerija Gordana Gorica Gorjana Grozda
Gulapka
D Damjana Dana Danica Dara Darinka
Dafina Deva Denica Despina Divna
Dimana Dobrinka Dominika Donka Dosta
Dragana Dukadinka Dushanka Dushica
GJ GJorgjivka GJurgjina GJurgja GJurgjica
E Eva Evangelija Evgenija Evlampija Evpraksija
Evrosija Evosina Evtimija Ekaterina Elena
Elisaveta Efimija
ZH ZHivana ZHivka
Z Zagoarka Zafirka Zaharinka Zdravka Zlata
Zografka Zoja Zora Zorica
DZ DZvezda DZena DZuna
I Ivana Ilina Ilindenka Ina Irina
Isidora Iskra Ica
J Javorka Jaglika Jagnula Jagoda Jana
Jasna Jovana Jovka Jordana Jordanka
K Kalina Kamenka Karanfilka Katerina Katina
Kirana Kira Kiska Kita Klimentina
Konstantina Kosara Kostadinka Krstana Kruna
Ksenija Kupenka
L Lenka Lefterija Lidija Lila Lina
Liljana Lozanka
LJ LJuba LJubena LJubinka LJubica
M Magdalena Makedonka Makrina Marena Marika
Marina Marta Matrona Meglena Melanija
Menka Mileva Milena Milica Milka
Mirjana Miladinka Milkana Mila Miroslava
Mitana Mitrodora Mitra Mladenka
N Nada Nedezhda Najdenka Nastasija Naumka
Nevena Neda Nedelka Nikodinka Nikolna
O Ognena Olga Ordanka
P Pavlenka Paca Pantelejmona Paraskeva Pauna
Pelagija Pera Perjana Petkana Petra
Petranka Pisana Plamenka Planika Pravoslavka
Prvenka
R Rada Radovanka Radoslava Razmenka Rajka
Rajna Rakita Ratka Ratomirka Rafaela
Rahela Reveka Rina Risimika Ristosija
Ristana Rodna Rozalija Rosa Roska
Ruzha Rumena Rusalina Rusanka
S Sava Saveta Savka Sandra Sara
Sarafilka Sashka Svetlana Sena Serafima
Simjana Simona Sinolichka Slavenka Slavjanka
Slavica Slavka Slobodanka Smilja Snezhana
Solzica Solunka Sonchica Sonja Sofija
Spasena Spomenka Srebra Stamena Stana
Stojanka Stojmena Stefanija Stefanka Suzana
T Tajana Tatijana Tamara Tana Taska
Temenuga Temjana Teodora Teodosija Teofilka
Todorka Tina Trajana Trena Trendafilka
Trifunka Trpana
KJ KJira KJirana
U Ubavka
F Fanija Fidanka Filimena Fimka Florinka
Fotina Frosina
H Hranislava Hristina
C Cana Canka Cveta Cena Cara
Ceca Cona Cola
CH CHedomirka
SH SHana

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[George S.]

To all you grks,when all is said & done greek claims to macedonia are based on false propaganda as they have no basic premise to rely on.It's a complete joke their lies abound.They make white appear to be black but we know of the endless lies.You are all hoping that people are confused & in the confusion you will reign supreme with your version of crap that it's all greek what BS.

[Risto the Great]

How come "Tito" was not on the second list.
... or is that too close to Jesus.

[George S.]

How about marshall instead as tito has died & gone to heaven ,yes to the last.

[Akzion]

What do these two lists represent? Is there any distinction between them?
I understand these names are used in Macedonia today (I can see many Greek names). Which ones are of Macedonian origin or solely Macedonian?

[George S.]

one is just macedonian & the other has got biblical origins.