The Macedonian Cause

[Pantaleon]

Very good video AegeanMacedon!!

whats so good about this video?

the toilet paper with the Greek flag? the attempt to portray the ancient Macedonons as non Greek? or both?

hmmm strange that at 00:48+ on the map we get the title "The end of Greece" by whom? The "Greek Empire of Fillip II"..... (as displayed on the right side if the vid). ooops

[George S.]

RTG can there be a resolution or something on this forum to say back to the politicians in macedonia they do not have the god given right to compromise on the name.The people of macedonia have allready decided that they want & are Macedonians & no one can take that away.We do not need to change our name just to please greece, the Eu or Nato.

[George S.]

To pantaleon,no amount of convincing will convince you that macedonians exist & your country does not recognise it's minorities.I have met over the years good decent ordinary people who are greeks in australia.You know what they said your greek government has gone too far & too extreme they called your politicians bloody pooftas not my words theirs.Even your former president Mitsotakis stated that they the government have gone too extreme.The republic of macedonia has a right to exist as that if greece doesn't like it bad luck.Why did greece go to the lenghts it did in 1913 & did you know the partition of macedonia was planned between greece ,serbia,& bulgaria.You can read that you can't deny what's happened unless you have been brainwashed by your greek government.Also Greece was not happy with her share & they protested.For your information the majority of the people were Macedonian when greece invaded macedonia(occupied territory)YEs & what did it do it tried to assimilate the macedonians & deny their basic human rights,free speech etc.Never before did the greeks occupy macedonian lands until 1913.Also what did the greek government do to their citizens they tried to brainwash them in the schooling & tell them something they are not.
That is that all greeks no matter what are macedonians,You know that's a BIG LIE!
So stop your bullshit & learn to ACCEPT THE MACEDONIAN TRUTH!

[Pantaleon]

To pantaleon,no amount of convincing will convince you that macedonians exist & your country does not recognise it's minorities.I have met over the years good decent ordinary people who are greeks in australia.You know what they said your greek government has gone too far & too extreme they called your politicians bloody pooftas not my words theirs.Even your former president Mitsotakis stated that they the government have gone too extreme.The republic of macedonia has a right to exist as that if greece doesn't like it bad luck.

George i will not play games with you, indeed we have different opinions on the subject. Dont confuse the "right" to exist, with the name dispute. Of course you exist, and you will exist. However as you know we disagree on the name, not on the right of existance. The Macedonian minority issue in Greece is more complicated. The name issue isnt hepling that as well. i do believe Macedonians (of you kind) exist in various areas on Macedonia (Greece), but not in the numbers you wish.

as for our politicians i believe they are crap too as 99% of the Greeks believe But most of our issues with politicians have nothing to do with you. i dont know about ur friends but most people blame the politicians for beeing too "elastic" on the "name issue".. I do agree the embargo was a harsh thing to do. But Mitsotakis(maybe the worse Greek politician ever, for other reasons) would blame Papandreou whatever he done anyway..

why dont you ask the people in the Rep. of Macedonia what they have to say about your politicians? i am sure alot too.

Why did greece go to the lenghts it did in 1913 & did you know the partition of macedonia was planned between greece ,serbia,& bulgaria.You can read that you can't deny what's happened unless you have been brainwashed by your greek government

Well i dont undertsand how Greece wouldnt or shouldnt be involved at the time? ok wasnt the ottoman the 3 countries fought against? So were was your army at the time? did we beat your army and confiscated your lands? Who did the Macedonia territory belong to before the split?
Since when Macedonia as a whole was yours anyway? ok since i am brainwashed, what historic evidence supports your claims?

For your information the majority of the people were Macedonian when greece invaded macedonia(occupied territory)

says who? you?

YEs & what did it do it tried to assimilate the macedonians & deny their basic human rights,free speech etc.Never before did the greeks occupy macedonian lands until 1913

i am not sure what u mean by "Never before did the greeks occupy macedonian lands until 1913". u mean Greek population? the government?

George i will not say that Greece didnt commit crimes during the balcan/world wars or in between. But Greeks suffered a great deal as well. All participant sides commited attrocities and at the same time suffered in that time period, madness. we are talking about millions and millions of the human population on earth were wiped off in a 30-40 year period! Those were brutal times to live in....thats a fact

[Soldier of Macedon]

So were was your army at the time?

What kind of a subjective question is that, did Greece have an army before Greece was created as a state in the 1820/30's?

says who? you?

Are you trying to imply that they were 'Greek'? Open a new thread for it and state your case, I don't think the people that made created this topic will appreciate the diversion.

am not sure what u mean by "Never before did the greeks occupy macedonian lands until 1913". u mean Greek population? the government?

When has Macedonia been under the rule of Athens prior to 1913?

George i will not say that Greece didnt commit crimes during the balcan/world wars or in between. But Greeks suffered a great deal as well.

Nowhere near what Macedonians suffered from all sides. Do you speak the language of modern Greece's first president?

[George S.]

To Pantaleon i have to disagree with you again you are pedlling your countries propaganda.Macedonia was a whole country in maps etc before it was partitioned & it was known as Macedonia.Your propanganda says that macedonians don't exist,there is no such thing as the macedonian language.There are only slav people.The population of greeks at the time of partioning was only 10% & macedonians were the majority.
See you have to admit to what greece done to the macedonian people.The greeks claim that because ther's no macedonian people they are Macedonians.
Also why did greece pass laws making it illegal for macedonians to speak or identify as macedonians.Greece denys everything it done to the macedonians.
Greece never set foot in macedonia before 1913 as a government.
Your claim to the name macedonia as a monopoly is wrong.Macedonia holds the registered name republic of macedonia since 1944.
Also answer me this if you own the right to the whole of macedonia why don't you own it outright you hold only 51% .You took only 51% because thats all you could take.Also 51 % of macedonia didn't belong to you in the first place.
What does occupied territories mean,something taken against the wishes of the macedonian people.
Also how macedonia can belong to 3 countries.Why can't macedonia belong to itself!
The partitioning of macedonia was simply a land grab the rest is history.

[Pantaleon]

George & Soldier of Macedon

we do have a different point of view on things, no surprise there. George i'd love to provide anwsers to the points u made above, but i will take Soldier's advice.

This forum has a rich variety of topics and i am sure we can expand our thoughts & points in one or more of these.

[777Bitola]

You need to add something about the post WW2 period in which thousands of Macedonians were once more thrown out of Greece, aswell as killed.

[Gj. Puleski]

Zdravo na site!
I like very much this thread. I have read all the contributions and for now I have no time left. Next time I'll try to give a contribiution of myself. Pozdrav!

[Gj. Puleski]

So many other options! You have done very well Bratot.

I wish my vocabulary was that broad in Macedonian!

I believe that part of having some pride in our identity is to reduce the influence of English (amonst others) in our language. I get the impression that some Macedonians (not you) think that using English words makes any statement look more important. This is part of the mindset which we must change.

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За проблематиката со непочитувањето на македонскиот јазик во Република Македонија имам пишувано доста. Ви доставувам еден таков текст од 10. септ. 2006. Текстот е напишан на кирилица, но кога го префрлив на овој сајт излегува на латиница. Za ovaa prezentazija na tekstot, moeto vistinsko ime e zameneto so psevdonimot Gjorgija Puleski so koj ovde se legitimiram. Sleduva tekstot:
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Do

Vladata na Republika Makedonija

Sovet za makedonski jazik

Skopje


PREDMET : INICIJATIVA




Poituvani,


Od sirokata problematika vrzana za makedonskiot narod i makedonskiot jazik (kade eden od bitnite segmenti se negiranjata sto doagjaat od razni strani), ona sto za mene, kako zainteresiran laik, otsekogas bilo posebno intrigantno, e negrizata za pravilnata upotreba na makedonskiot jazik od strana na samite Makedonci. Ona, pak, sto e najcudno vo ovaa cudna pojava, e sto so izminuvaweto na vremeto (i osamostojuvaweto na zemjata, zgolemuvaweto na brojot na obrazovani lugje, mediumi za javno opstenje, prevedeni dela na makedonski jazik, se pogolem broj na znacajni literarni dela od domasni avtori, simpoziumi po makedonistika i se pogolem broj na strucno-naucni dela od ovaa oblast) taa pojava ne samo sto ne slabee, tuku i dobiva na intenzitetot. Najdobar indikator za ovoj zagrizuvacki trend e ona sto sekojdnevno ni se plasira preku vesnicite i televiziite i ona sto na site strani go gledame ispisano po firmite na pretprijatijata i prodavnicite:

Edno masovno nepocituvawe na leksikata i pravopisot na makedonskiot jazik i istisnuvawe od upotreba na negovoto kirilicno pismo.

Iskra nadez, deka nesto ke se smeni vo ovaa oblast, kaj mene se javi so donesuvaweto na Zakonot za upotrebata na makedonskiot jazik i vostanovuvaweto na Sovetot za makedonski jazik vo 1998, no, za zal, izminative osumipol godini ne ja opravdaa ovaa nadez. Naprotiv, destruktivniot odnos na Makedonecot kon sopstvenite jazik i pismo - dobiva na zamav.
Edna od pricinite za vakviot apsurd, sekako, e neprimenata na Zakonot za upotrebata na makedonskiot jazik. Od nekolkute broja na "Biltenot" na Sovetot za makedonski jazik, sto denovive mi dojdoa do raka, mozev da zaklucam deka Sovetot e sosema svesen za ovoj problem, i postojano se obiduva da go svrti opstestvenoto vnimanie kon nego, no od druga strana mi e cudno sto, osven voobicaenoto apeliranje i "kukanje", ne prezemal nisto poveke. A, ne e deka ne mozel da prezeme. Na primer, namesto voobicaenoto apeliranje i "kukanje" mozel i trebalo prvo da go postavi prasanjeto :

Zosto nikoj ne gi sankcionira prekrsitelite na Zakonot za upotrebata na makedonskiot jazik?

Ova e klucnoto prasanje za sproveduvaweto na Zakonot, a imam vpecatok (se izvinuvam ako gresam) deka e toa sosema zapostaveno od strana na Sovetot. Skopje "vrie" od firmi ispisani na latinica, a seuste ne sum slusnal deka nekoj bil kaznet za takov prekrsok. Poznato e deka mnogu od mediumite nemaat lektor - i nikomu nisto. Televiziite prikazuvaat stranski filmovi bez da se navede imeto na preveduvacot i lektorot - i pak nikomu nisto. Dali, pri edno vakvo evidentno bezzakonie, Sovetot se zainteresiral kaj nadlezniot organ da doznae kolku prekrsocni prijavi se podneseni? Kako mozeme da se zalime deka ne se primenuva Zakonot, a bez da sme go prezemale osnovnoto nesto sto vo takva situacija samo po sebe se nametnuva? Ona sto vo najmala raka odamna mozel i moral da go napravi Sovetot e javno da go postavi prasaweto za odgovornosta na inspekciskata sluzba koja ne prezima soodvetni merki protiv prekrsitelite na Zakonot za upotrebata na makedonskiot jazik.
Vakvata zagrizuvacka sostojba na rabotite so upotrebata na makedonskiot jazik e motivot za ova moe obrakjanje do vas. Pri toa, ne mi e celta da kritikuvam, tuku da dadam predlog za resenie. Smetam deka so mala promena vo politikata na Sovetot bi mozelo znatno da se doprinese za primenata na Zakonot za upotrebata na makedonskiot jazik. Ona sto sakam da go predlozam e Sovetot da me prifati kako svoj nadvoresen sorabotnik i vo toa svojstvo (i vo konsultacija so Sovetot) jas bi se angaziral na identifikuvanjeto na konkretnite prekrsiteli na Zakonot za upotrebata na makedonskiot jazik i bi podnesuval prijavi do nadlezniot organ protiv sekoj poedinecen prekrsitel. Ubeden sum deka so realizacijata na ovaa ednostavna ideja kje se napravi ne samo vistinskiot iscekor kon zazivuvanjeto na Zakonot za upotrebata na makedonskiot jazik, tuku voedno i kon transformacijata na Sovetot za makedonski jazik od (za posirokata javnost) anonimna i "kabinetska" institucija vo avtoritetno telo koe kje deluva i "terenski" i kje dava "opiplivi" (a ne samo "teoretski") rezultati vo prilog na pravilnata upotreba na makedonskiot jazik .
So izvinuvawe za ovaa moja (mozebi preterana, no) dobronamerna otvorenost i so nadez deka ovaa moja inicijativa kje bide seriozno razgledana i prifatena od strana na Sovetot, srdecno ve pozdravuva





GJORGJIJA PULESKI



Skopje, 10.09.2006



PRILOZI:

-Moe pismo do Televizija "Alfa" od 14.07.2006 g.
-Moe pismo do direktorite na vesnikot "Vest" od 03.09.2006 g.

[Gj. Puleski]

Hi, Daskalot,

I would like to ask you for a favor.
I have a number of previous writen texts (like the one above) which I would like to post here, but I have a problem about that. The texts are in the cyrilyc font Mac C Swiss and when I post such a text here, it transforms in latin (as you can see it above). Is there a way to preserve the cyrylic font (wich sould not neccessairly remain the Mac C Swiss) ?

Thank you in advance.

[Risto the Great]

Hi, Daskalot,

I would like to ask you for a faver.
I have a number of previous writen texts (like the one above) which I would like to post here, but I have a problem about that. The texts are in the cyrilyc font Mac C Swiss and when I post such a text here, it transforms in latin (as you can see it above). Is there a way to preserve the cyrylic font (wich sould not neccessairly remain the Mac C Swiss) ?

Thank you in advance.

Hi GP,
this might be of use to you:

http://www.maknews.com/transliterator/transliterator.html

[Gj. Puleski]

Thank you, Risto.
Here is the result of the conversion.

But, still, I have the impression that the Macedonians from the disapora are not so fammiliar with the cyrilc scrypt and that they prefer to write Makedonski in latin. Am I right?


До

Владата на Република Македонија

Совет за македонски јазик

Скопје


ПРЕДМЕТ : ИНИЦИЈАТИВА



Почитувани,

Бидејки во весникот "Вест" се јавуваат голем број на јазични грешки (за што поопширно ве информирав со мојот допис бр. 10-161/1 од 13.09.2006), а во импресумот на весникот не е наведено дека во составот на неговата редакција има и лектор, на 10.10.2006 г. поднесов пријава до Секторот за инспекциски надзор и контрола при Министерството за култура за основано сомнение дека весникот нема вработено лектор.
Ви приложувам копија од известувањето што неодамна го добив како одговор на таа моја пријава. Од тоа известување произлегува дека со со инспекцискиот надзор е утврдено дека весникот "Вест" има лектор, а дека тоа е извесната г-ѓа Маја Бражанска, за која е констатирано дека поседува уверение за положен лекторски испит издадено од Комисијата за полагање испит за лектор при Министерството за култура.
Бидејки тоа што госпоѓата Бражанска има уверение за положен испит за лектор ништо не менува на фактот дека во весникот "Вест" и натаму се јавуваат големи јазични некоректности (од типот "кров" наместо "покрив"), го молам Советот за македонски јазик да размисли (доколку тоа не е веќе сторено) околу потребата за воведување на лиценца за работа на лекторите, мерка со која на неквалитетните лектори би можело да им се одземе правото да ја вршат дејноста. Приложувам копија од написот под наслов "Лиценци за наставниците" (објавен во "Вест" од 16.10.2006) кој може да послужи како појдовна основа за размислувањето на тема "лиценци за лекторите".
Со почит,

Ѓорѓија Пулески

Скопје
Скопје, 31.10.2006 г.

[Risto the Great]

But, still, I have the impression that the Macedonians from the disapora are not so fammiliar with the cyrilc scrypt and that they prefer to write Makedonski in latin. Am I right?

I think this is more due to keyboard capability than understanding. I don't mind either way.

[George S.]

Macedonians are one race of people that's Macedonians & the calling of macedonians slavs is wrong.