The Macedonian Cause

[Soldier of Macedon]

Good point Rogi, the main focus of the document should remain in the context of Macedonia and the Macedonians.

[UMDiaspora.org]

Rogi, you misunderstood the sentence. The definition will be a PR piece whether you like it or not as the world will learn about it once complete and supported by all Macedonian organization, MPs, etc...

Re: Climate Change - this is an important trend, we shouldn't put protecting the environment to just say we are protecting the environment but really do it. Climate Change right now is a major focus of the world, and we are citizens of the world, have a duty to protect our environment.

[Phoenix]

Rogi, you misunderstood the sentence. The definition will be a PR piece whether you like it or not as the world will learn about it once complete and supported by all Macedonian organization, MPs, etc...

Re: Climate Change - this is an important trend, we shouldn't put protecting the environment to just say we are protecting the environment but really do it. Climate Change right now is a major focus of the world, and we are citizens of the world, have a duty to protect our environment.

Our environment is inextricably linked to this sentence in the 'Cause'..."...economically prosperous and abundant state; which cares and provides for the health and well-being of all its citizens..."

You simply can't have one without the other, the environmental part of the 'Clause' needs to be exactly to the point...Macedonians are people of the land, soil runs through our veins...we have flora and fauna found nowhere else on the planet, a topography thats remarkably diverse... this is a big deal and deserves our total dedication.

[UMDiaspora.org]

Phoenix, equally important is the 2.9% of Macedonia's territory which is waters. Lake Ohrid is the third oldest lake in the world. In addition to the flora and fauna, Lake Ohrid has some of the rarest types of trout. Macedonia has sufficient water resources.

[Phoenix]

Phoenix, equally important is the 2.9% of Macedonia's territory which is waters. Lake Ohrid is the third oldest lake in the world. In addition to the flora and fauna, Lake Ohrid has some of the rarest types of trout. Macedonia has sufficient water resources.

Yes I agree totally, In environment I meant everything, especially our unique and critical waterways.
As you know Ohrid isn't just famous for its trout but other water life and with it being one of the deepest lakes in the World, many/most species haven't yet been discovered...

I don't completely agree about Macedonia's water self sufficiency because many Bitolski sela struggle with water restrictions each summer, although part of that problem is poor infrastructure...regardless, water is our lifeline and in an era of severe climate change every effort needs to be made to protect it, for us as humans and for our flora and fauna eco-systems.

[Risto the Great]

The definition of the Macedonian Cause is not to be used as a PR document. If we look at it in terms of what the world is doing and what the world thinks, it will eventually become a very watered down 'politically correct' document that no longer relates to what the Macedonian Cause (as defined in our hearts and minds) really is.

I am starting to feel this vibe.
It could be argued that the Macedonian Cause is to contribute to World Peace. So many wonderful gestures.

However, it is meant to inspire and define that which binds us, not necessarily look good to the rest of the world. I have no problem covering all bases in the Cause, but it ultimately needs to inspire us and ensure certain actions are non-negotiable.

[UMDiaspora.org]

RtG, we completely agree. However, the definition will be pointless if we don't uphold it and be active in all the segments of the definition.

[Risto the Great]

UMDiaspora.org, thank you for your input on this thread.

We all know it comes from the best of intentions from all of us and we all therefore stand to gain from it.

I am in a difference of opinion in relation to the PR aspect of this document. As an example, in order to be economically stable, we might need nuclear derived electricity one day. This clearly defies the "eco" component of the Cause. I know this is a sensitive issue and needs much further discussion when the time comes. But is this really the Cause that so many of our people have committed themselves to?

I have no doubt that UMD or AMHRC etc. have their specific agendas to follow. One day their agendas may be completely different. The Cause will be the same if it is adopted by each of them, but additional motivations may be different and will come to be distinguishing factors about these various organisations. These will be good or bad for potential members and what represents PR to some may well be something another organisation violently opposes. I have no problem with this as long as the Cause remains true.

A distilled Cause that represents the very deepest motivations of Macedonians for their country and their people is what we are after here. The idea has legs, and if done correctly, can be an inspiration to many generations in the future.

Does anybody else feel the need for a concise document? It appears we are defining a Utopian dream here instead of some clear guidelines about what we are really fighting for. I am all for Utopian dreams, we can talk about the MTO Utopian Dream (MTOUD) later on. But for now .... let's think about how we can distill our Macedonian Cause.

[Phoenix]

UMDiaspora.org, thank you for your input on this thread.

We all know it comes from the best of intentions from all of us and we all therefore stand to gain from it.

I am in a difference of opinion in relation to the PR aspect of this document. As an example, in order to be economically stable, we might need nuclear derived electricity one day. This clearly defies the "eco" component of the Cause. I know this is a sensitive issue and needs much further discussion when the time comes. But is this really the Cause that so many of our people have committed themselves to?

I have no doubt that UMD or AMHRC etc. have their specific agendas to follow. One day their agendas may be completely different. The Cause will be the same if it is adopted by each of them, but additional motivations may be different and will come to be distinguishing factors about these various organisations. These will be good or bad for potential members and what represents PR to some may well be something another organisation violently opposes. I have no problem with this as long as the Cause remains true.

A distilled Cause that represents the very deepest motivations of Macedonians for their country and their people is what we are after here. The idea has legs, and if done correctly, can be an inspiration to many generations in the future.

Does anybody else feel the need for a concise document? It appears we are defining a Utopian dream here instead of some clear guidelines about what we are really fighting for. I am all for Utopian dreams, we can talk about the MTO Utopian Dream (MTOUD) later on. But for now .... let's think about how we can distill our Macedonian Cause.

RTG, I don't agree with your nuclear example undermining the "eco" component...nuclear energy is actually an "eco" friendly solution to the problems of climate change and the previously erroneous term 'global warming'...

The nuclear debate has been hijacked by 2 groups...

(1) The Green movement

and

(2) some Governments

Nuclear reactor technology has come a long way since notable accidents like Three Mile Island in the late 70's...the experts claim that safe and reliable reactor technology exists today but the hurdles of the Green movement and some Governments still exist.

The opposition of the Green movement is based purely on scare-mongering...and a sometimes futile search for alternative energy

For all governments, nuclear power is a sign of 'prestige' but ONLY if it comes with the bonus to produce nuclear weapons, because of non-proliferation treaties it becomes a less 'attractive' proposition, its a spiteful reaction, nothing more.

The 'Clause' has to be all encompassing because identity is inextricably linked to both tangible and intangible ideas and visions...

The failure or deliberate ommissions for fear of producing a "PR" document will open up another can of worms and the 'Clause' will be seen as an exercise in chauvinism by our many enemies, or just simply one that doesn't go far enough...

This is a huge statement that just doesn't fit into the "...in 25 words or less..." mould

I'm not suggesting another lengthy paragraph dedicated to the environment, with flowery language and utopian visions of rolling green hills and white doves...just an acknowledgement of its importance.

[Prolet]

Is it me or has this forum gone up a gear?? Some of the stuff thats been said in this thread is brilliant!!

[Risto the Great]

Prolet, I would like to think it is just you.
But in addition to that, I am sure that if we all think about it long enough, then the notion of a Macedonian Cause that we all believe in becomes fundamental to how we understand ourselves. It is something important to all of us and in a way crystallises many of our thoughts and aspirations with regard to Macedonia.

Why would it not deserve such coherent thought?

I am enjoying the direction of this thread. It has fermented for some time and is deserving of this renewed focus.

[TrueMacedonian]

I would like to point out something that needs alot more emphasis;

4) Macedonian ancestry, heritage and history in its entirety

Yet when we read something like Andrew Rossos' book here - http://books.google.com/books?id=hE5...=roman&f=false - he only gives the Roman era before the arrival of the Slavs one and a half pages. It seems that as Macedonians we are willing to give Alexander all the glory, leap frog to the arrival of the Slavs, fast forward to Cyril and Methodius, hop to Samuel, and end up in 1896 with Goce Delchev and the gang. If we are to honor history in its entirety then why do we deny ourselves this history?

[Boge]

This is an incorrigible topic, one that I have followed for a brief period of time. True Macedonian makes a valid point. And may I add, in my humble opinion, something else to consider. We do want The Macedonian Cause to be written by the many and not the few…Yes…No…Who the F### cares…?

Will you consider a sentence in the preamble that stipulates Macedonia is a land of Christians?

[Soldier of Macedon]

I think there should definetly be some sort of reference to Macedonia as a biblical land.

[Soldier of Macedon]

If we are to honor history in its entirety then why do we deny ourselves this history?

Hopefully much of what we have done and continue to do will open up the eyes of other Macedonians where it concerns our legacy in the East Roman Empire.