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  • Truth Bearer
    Banned
    • Sep 2008
    • 120

    Can someone please answer the question?

    How is this possible??

    THE PROCLAMATION OF THE TEMPORARY GOVERNMENT OF MACEDONIA REQUESTING UNIFICATION WITH GREECE;

    REVOLUTION ON MT. OLYMPUS.


    This proclamation shatters 3 myths (lies) about Macedonia:

    Myth (Lie) #1: The name ‘Macedonia’ was not used by Greeks until after 1988. Until 1988, the area was known as ‘Northern Greece’ or ‘Northern New Territories’.
    As its evident in the Proclamation written in pure Greek by Macedonian Greeks this is simply not true. ‘The Ministry of Northern Greece’ changed its name to ‘The Ministry of Macedonia and Thrace’ in 1988….not the department/province!

    Myth (Lie) #2: There were no Greeks in Macedonia until after Greece invaded and expelled the ‘Macedonians’ in 1912 and brought more Greeks from Turkey in 1923.
    Again, shameless lies. This document is proof that Greeks in Macedonia, not wanting to be ruled by Turkey anymore, took up arms and started a revolution. They formed a government and appealed to Greece and the European Powers to unite them with their motherland Greece! All this as Turkey was getting ready to sign the Treaty of San Stefano which allowed Russia to give Macedonia to Bulgaria.


    Myth (Lie) #3: There was no Greek revolution against Turkey in Macedonia as happened in Southern Greece because there were no Greeks living in Macedonia.
    This lie can now be destroyed along with the rest of Macedonism and irredentism. To continue to propagate these lies is not worthy of a civil society.



    DECLARATION OF THE TEMPORARY GOVERNMENT OF MACEDONIA


    To the Governments of the European powers


    The long lasting sufferings which the respectable governments have heard about from their representatives, and which by now have reached a state of stressful despair, have obliged the inhabitants of Macedonia to take up arms in order to defend their lives, their honour and property. Calling a meeting today the representatives of the various communities in Macedonia, overthrew the Sultan’s tyrannical authority, declared the union of Macedonia with mother Greece, and chose us in order to form the Temporary Government of the revolution with the obligation to ask from the Christian super powers their mighty protection for the justification of our fight…(Macedonia) is ready to be freed and connected to mother Greece, even if it needs to be delivered to fire and disaster rather than continue living under the tyranny of various Turkish notables. They destroyed and violated the honour and sanctity of family life. All promises and obligations that the Turkish authorities gave to its subjects have proved by now to be nothing more than purposely sly and deceptive. The Turkish government has several times granted rights but tyranny has never been loosened. On the contrary, our misfortunes became endless and horrible because this government has neither power nor authority. Therefore, we were forced to seek our arms so that we may die as men as Greeks if we are not allowed to live like logical and free men.


    [Signed] In Litohoro, Mt. Olympus [on] 19th February, 1878 [by the members of]



    The Temporary Government of Macedonia:

    Evangelos Korovangos, President;

    A. Asteriou;

    G.V. Zahariadis;

    Nikiforos, Monastic priest;

    Athanasios Georgiou;

    Ioannis G. Vergidis;

    Giannis Nikolaou

    We ask the Consul General of Greece to read [and transmit] the present document.

    CONSULATE’S LETTER



    Pages 81, 84, 116, and 117 From the book:

    'Macedonia, Macedonian Struggle, Greece-Macedonia 4000 Years'

    By: Konstantinos Douflias, Historian-Folklorist-Journalist

    1992, Aegean Publications

    Book is available in Greek and English


  • Makedonia
    Banned
    • Sep 2008
    • 76

    #2
    I don't see any problem with the document Truth Bearer.

    It confirms what some of us Macedonians already know.

    It is an excellent exhibit you bring to display in the MacedonianTruth showcase.

    Comment

    • Nashio
      Junior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 5

      #3
      Why didn't you people call Macedonia, Macedonia when you annexed it. Why did you instead choose the appropriate name The New Territories.

      Why did you also have a Governor in this Occupied part of Macedonia, a governor indicates colonisation.
      Last edited by Nashio; 09-06-2008, 05:22 PM.

      Comment

      • Delodephius
        Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 736

        #4
        One piece of paper against a sea of others. People need to understand that one or even a hundred proofs don't change the fact there are other proofs who state exact contrary. Historiography does not work like: I found this piece of paper saying Macedonia is Greek which means all what you got saying Macedonia is not Greek must be wrong. It does not work that way. It is far, FAR more complicated than that. When it comes to history two such pieces of evidence don't cancel each other out. And one cannot ignore the other. But people want to ignore the other. They always do, because most people don't care about the truth, they only want to find evidence for THEIR truth. The above evidence that there were Greeks in Macedonia proofs nothing because there is equally credible evidence that Macedonians were the majority in Macedonia before the Greeks. ONE DOES NOT CANCEL THE OTHER OUT!
        अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
        उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
        This is mine or (somebody) else’s (is the way) narrow minded people count.
        But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.

        Comment

        • toothpaste
          Banned
          • Sep 2008
          • 149

          #5
          Originally posted by Slovak/Anomaly/Tomas View Post
          One piece of paper against a sea of others. People need to understand that one or even a hundred proofs don't change the fact there are other proofs who state exact contrary. Historiography does not work like: I found this piece of paper saying Macedonia is Greek which means all what you got saying Macedonia is not Greek must be wrong. It does not work that way. It is far, FAR more complicated than that. When it comes to history two such pieces of evidence don't cancel each other out. And one cannot ignore the other. But people want to ignore the other. They always do, because most people don't care about the truth, they only want to find evidence for THEIR truth. The above evidence that there were Greeks in Macedonia proofs nothing because there is equally credible evidence that Macedonians were the majority in Macedonia before the Greeks. ONE DOES NOT CANCEL THE OTHER OUT!
          One piece of paper..?
          Have you ever heard of revolutions of the Greeks in Macedonia ...?

          1821 May (when most of Greeks revolted against Ottoman empire) there was also a revolution in Chalkidiki area lead by Emmanuel Pappas ,merchant from Serres).
          1822 Naousa region joins the Greek Revolution
          1822 Olympos region joins the Greek Revolution

          1854 Greek Macedonians revolt together with Thessalians and Epirotans.

          1878 Another revolution lead by Greeks in Macedonia (the paper presented is from this one)

          These are long before 1903 you see....

          Comment

          • Delodephius
            Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 736

            #6
            And the facts that show that Macedonia was mostly populated by Macedonians and not Greeks?
            अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
            उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
            This is mine or (somebody) else’s (is the way) narrow minded people count.
            But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.

            Comment

            • Risto the Great
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 15660

              #7
              Originally posted by Makedonia View Post
              I don't see any problem with the document Truth Bearer.
              Nor do I.
              Aside from the fact that there were only but a handful of Greeks in the entire region back then and that it is most likely a fake.
              It is interesting that it did not capture the imagination of the people of Macedonia. That they could not even muster a song about it. That it has not formed into the collective psyche of modern Greece. Sorry, I am not convinced. Especially when the most notable "Greek" Macedonian freedom fighters barely spoke Greek or were from Crete.

              Nah, I have written a proclamation letter to yours. I will have it released in a 100 years time. It will have as much relevance as yours.
              Risto the Great
              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

              Comment

              • toothpaste
                Banned
                • Sep 2008
                • 149

                #8
                Originally posted by Slovak/Anomaly/Tomas View Post
                And the facts that show that Macedonia was mostly populated by Macedonians and not Greeks?
                First of all you should define what exactly do you mean by Macedonia-it's a geographic (first of all ) term which took its final shape after the cancel of St.Stephan's treaty.
                So in fact 3 Ottoman vilayets.

                I agree that the major population of this area was ethnic Macedonian (or Bulgarian as considered by most of the authors back then), but why should we treat this region as a solid part of land-as it is an island !

                In the south there was exclusively Greek population-Greek speaking-since always.(its mentioned from ancient to byzantine to ottoman sources)
                Were there ethnic Macedonians in Chalkidiki?in Pieria?in Grevena?in Kavala?in Thassos? in Kozani? in southern Serres or Emathia ??
                No.

                Just Northern there was a mess- a mix of Turks ,Greeks,ethnic Macedonians, Vlachs.
                There apart of the Greek speaking Greeks ,there were also people who didnt have Greek as mother tongue,or were bilingual ,but had Greek national consiousness.

                In the North there was no doubt for the majority (also a significant Albanian population too)


                So...it's like you consider Iberian peninsula as a whole and claim it Spanish ,ignoring the Portuguese,cause Spanish are the majority..

                Comment

                • Areianos
                  Banned
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 71

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Slovak/Anomaly/Tomas View Post
                  And the facts that show that Macedonia was mostly populated by Macedonians and not Greeks?
                  Interesting, this goes against the population census of the League of Nations in 1925.

                  It also goes against the census by the Turkish Beys in 1903.

                  It also goes against what foreign consuls in Macedonia stipulated in 1903.

                  I have over 40 pages of authentic literature from German, Austrian, French & English consuls in Macedonia in 1903, would you like to read them?

                  I am more than happy to pass them on.

                  Comment

                  • Risto the Great
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 15660

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Areianos View Post
                    Interesting, this goes against the population census of the League of Nations in 1925.

                    It also goes against the census by the Turkish Beys in 1903.

                    It also goes against what foreign consuls in Macedonia stipulated in 1903.

                    I have over 40 pages of authentic literature from German, Austrian, French & English consuls in Macedonia in 1903, would you like to read them?

                    I am more than happy to pass them on.
                    Your Wikipedia talks of a 2% Greek population in Macedonia in 1881 as surveyed by the Turks.

                    Greeks were the minority. We all know this. But you attempt to cloud that matter.
                    Risto the Great
                    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                    Comment

                    • Delodephius
                      Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 736

                      #11
                      You didn't understand my post. I said: "And the facts that show that Macedonia was mostly populated by Macedonians and not Greeks?" Why are you talking about facts that tell contrary to that? If they can be called facts that is.
                      अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
                      उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
                      This is mine or (somebody) else’s (is the way) narrow minded people count.
                      But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.

                      Comment

                      • Areianos
                        Banned
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 71

                        #12
                        What do you mean by 'our' Wikipedia.?

                        Do you have a link?

                        I only go by books and authentic sources, sorry.

                        Comment

                        • Areianos
                          Banned
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 71

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Slovak/Anomaly/Tomas View Post
                          You didn't understand my post. I said: "And the facts that show that Macedonia was mostly populated by Macedonians and not Greeks?" Why are you talking about facts that tell contrary to that? If they can be called facts that is.
                          I am not saying Greeks were alone, but being mostly populated is something I have enough ammunition from authentic sources to debate to the tilt.

                          Comment

                          • Delodephius
                            Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 736

                            #14
                            "Authentic" is a dubious word.
                            अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
                            उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
                            This is mine or (somebody) else’s (is the way) narrow minded people count.
                            But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.

                            Comment

                            • Areianos
                              Banned
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 71

                              #15
                              Well governmental sources then, you can't get more authentic than that.

                              ...oh and they are all non-Greek.

                              Comment

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