I am not trying to provoke, or to insult anyone? Just a honest curious question. I really hope I didn't offend anyone.
Poor spelling and grammar notwithstanding, this is a seemingly provocative post which will now require you to cease slithering below the radar and reveal your true ancestral identity. Once you've done that, some here may be inclined to provide you an answer or perhaps ask you some questions about your own history. Understand this, the MTO has existed for over 8 years and all too often we've had morons come here asking questions without being prepared to answer questions asked of them. It's a familiar game. Let's see if you have the capacity to be genuine (and not a moron).
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
Poor spelling and grammar notwithstanding, this is a seemingly provocative post which will now require you to cease slithering below the radar and reveal your true ancestral identity. Once you've done that, some here may be inclined to provide you an answer or perhaps ask you some questions about your own history. Understand this, the MTO has existed for over 8 years and all too often we've had morons come here asking questions without being prepared to answer questions asked of them. It's a familiar game. Let's see if you have the capacity to be genuine (and not a moron).
Well you are right about my grammar. But I do not know how does that asnwer my question.
What makes us believe we are descended from the Ancient Macedonians? I don't mean to be rude either but that is a stupid question and here's why. The absence of a smoking-gun answer to your question doesn't disprove that we are descended from the Ancient Macedonians and that they, and not the Slavs from Ukraine or Russia, are our natural progenitors. For a start, no other nation in the world is known as the Macedonian nation besides my nation of Macedonians. And they have been known as such by the surrounding nations for centuries. Just browse through the many threads on this forum for some proof of this claim.
The disingenuous apologetic tone of your question doesn't disguise the provocative and arrogant essence of its intention. But your question is not a new one. It has repeatedly been asked of us by Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs, even by Macedonians themselves. I'm sure you're well aware that the debate is very much alive amongst Macedonians as well - are we really related to some migrating Slavic newcomers from the 5th & 6th Centuries or have we always been there in the central Balkans?
Now, before we get too in depth, trying to answer your smug question, how about you enlighten us as to why Albanians believe they are descended from the Ancient Illyrians? Or is that the Ancient Dardanians? Or, perhaps, the Ancient Trhracians? I'm pretty sure Albanians have claimed all of them. Most recently, it's the Ancient Macedonians, if I'm not mistaken.
Now, before we get too in depth, trying to answer your smug question, how about you enlighten us as to why Albanians believe they are descended from the Ancient Illyrians? Or is that the Ancient Dardanians? Or, perhaps, the Ancient Trhracians? I'm pretty sure Albanians have claimed all of them. Most recently, it's the Ancient Macedonians, if I'm not mistaken.
It is a hypothesis based on territory that Albanians have settled, however I do not believe it, there is not a single document left of Illyrians to prove it. This is why I don't take it seriously.
I'm sure you're well aware that the debate is very much alive amongst Macedonians as well - are we really related to some migrating Slavic newcomers from the 5th & 6th Centuries or have we always been there in the central Balkans?
The problem with that intra-Macedonian debate (which is as silly as the question posed by the OP) is that people on both sides make irrational arguments. This is, to a large extent, an unfortunate side-effect of our people being subjected to years of foreign lies and propaganda. Some individuals also have a habit of compartmentalising the issue, like our situation is so unique, when they really need to be thinking outside the box. In France, there are statues of Vercingetorix (Celtic warrior who fought against the Romans), Julius Caesar (Roman general who defeated the Celts), Charles Matel (Leader of the Germanic Franks who ruled the area of today's France and was grandfather to Charlemagne) and Rollo (Scandinavian Viking who ruled the area of today's Normandy). Today's French people live in an area that was traditionally inhabited by Celts, they speak a language largely derived from Latin, they use a variant of a Germanic tribal name for their national identity and they celebrate descendants of Vikings for the later Norman conquest of England. Imagine if they were in the Balkans! In this day and age, how would a Frenchman respond to a question asking them if they are Celtic, Latin or Germanic? Would anybody deny that the French are indigenous to France? I doubt it. So why is it that in Europe broadly and the Balkans more specifically, the Macedonians seem to be the only people who are confronted with this sort of stupidity and are constantly being challenged to justify their existence? Genetically, culturally and geographically, our home is in the Balkans, in Macedonia. We are the only people in the Balkans that identify with the Macedonian region from an ethno-national perspective. Our base element is Macedonian and those that followed via invasions and settlements naturally contributed to our ethnogenesis in varying degrees. I see no issue or contradiction there, but in the end, we are defined as Macedonians based on the historical occurrences that have taken place in Macedonia. Period. These points can of course be elaborated on, but they need not be, until people start asking Frenchy across the Adriatic the same stupid questions.
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
So why is it that in Europe broadly and the Balkans more specifically, the Macedonians seem to be the only people who are confronted with this sort of stupidity and are constantly being challenged to justify their existence?
The obvious answer would be - to appease the Greeks. The Greeks tend to make a lot more noise than us when it comes to Macedonia and the Europeans would naturally much rather offend us over them. The stereotypical meek and peaceful Macedonian is less of a headache than having to deal with an argumentative and stubborn Greek who feels the whole of Europe (and the world) owes him something for the achievements of the Ancient Greeks.
Genetically, culturally and geographically, our home is in the Balkans, in Macedonia. We are the only people in the Balkans that identify with the Macedonian region from an ethno-national perspective. Our base element is Macedonian and those that followed via invasions and settlements naturally contributed to our ethnogenesis in varying degrees. I see no issue or contradiction there, but in the end, we are defined as Macedonians based on the historical occurrences that have taken place in Macedonia. Period. These points can of course be elaborated on, but they need not be, until people start asking Frenchy across the Adriatic the same stupid questions.
The Europeans didn't even give us the simple courtesy of referring to us by our chosen name during the 2001 conflict but instead referred to us as the Slavs of Macedonia. I can't understand why the Croats, Serbs and Bosnians weren't labelled the Slavs of their respective countries during the 90's Balkan Wars too. For some reason Macedonians seem to be more Slavic than any other so-called Slavic nation on Earth. Even more Slavic than the Russians. As far as the European reporting was concerned back in 2001, there were two sides in that conflict: The Albanian Rebels (which, BTW, evolved during the course of reporting from terrorists, to insurgents, to rebels/freedom fighters) and, the other side - the Slavs of Macedonia. This is so disrespectful and demoralising, it doesn't even bear talking about. And it continues to this day.
They (Europe) are simply reinforcing the idea that we are some invading horde from the east that has no business being in Macedonia and don't really deserve to be known as ethnic Macedonians. Apparently (if we go with the Slav theory for just one moment), 1,500 years of continued settlement is not enough to warrant an acceptance of a Macedonian identity. Shameful really.
The real question is why is it that only the Macedonians are asked this?
If a Pontic who moved to Macedonia around 100 years ago can claim ancient ancestral Macedonian lineage anyone can. No nation is pure, all have been invaded and populations have mixed along with language, food and customs. If you want to argue the Slav theory most of what is Greece today was conquered by Slavs. Why do they not call themselves Slav Greece for historical accuracy?
A stupid and pointless question. Go and ask the same of any other nationality and let me know how you go.
I think the framework agreement should be null and void. There should be a big wall built between Macedonian, Albanian and Kosovo border. All Albanian criminals currently in Macedonia should be deported immediately.
The problem with that intra-Macedonian debate (which is as silly as the question posed by the OP) is that people on both sides make irrational arguments. This is, to a large extent, an unfortunate side-effect of our people being subjected to years of foreign lies and propaganda. Some individuals also have a habit of compartmentalising the issue, like our situation is so unique, when they really need to be thinking outside the box. In France, there are statues of Vercingetorix (Celtic warrior who fought against the Romans), Julius Caesar (Roman general who defeated the Celts), Charles Matel (Leader of the Germanic Franks who ruled the area of today's France and was grandfather to Charlemagne) and Rollo (Scandinavian Viking who ruled the area of today's Normandy). Today's French people live in an area that was traditionally inhabited by Celts, they speak a language largely derived from Latin, they use a variant of a Germanic tribal name for their national identity and they celebrate descendants of Vikings for the later Norman conquest of England. Imagine if they were in the Balkans! In this day and age, how would a Frenchman respond to a question asking them if they are Celtic, Latin or Germanic? Would anybody deny that the French are indigenous to France? I doubt it. So why is it that in Europe broadly and the Balkans more specifically, the Macedonians seem to be the only people who are confronted with this sort of stupidity and are constantly being challenged to justify their existence? Genetically, culturally and geographically, our home is in the Balkans, in Macedonia. We are the only people in the Balkans that identify with the Macedonian region from an ethno-national perspective. Our base element is Macedonian and those that followed via invasions and settlements naturally contributed to our ethnogenesis in varying degrees. I see no issue or contradiction there, but in the end, we are defined as Macedonians based on the historical occurrences that have taken place in Macedonia. Period. These points can of course be elaborated on, but they need not be, until people start asking Frenchy across the Adriatic the same stupid questions.
The real question is why is it that only the Macedonians are asked this?
It's a good question. Perhaps it's a result of the Serbian-Bulgarian-Greek propaganda to conquer and divide Macedonia a century ago; perhaps it's because Greece fears what accepting a Macedonian ethnicity / minority would mean for their perceived history of Greece.
A question(s) for the Macedonians, now, is do we result to the same pettiness as the Greeks/Bulgarians? Do we set out to demonstrate that they are not Greek or Bulgarian...is the best defense a good offense? Or do we continue trying to justifying who we are and why we are who we are? Or do we ignore what they're saying and just move on? Or is it a combination of this?
Do we set out to demonstrate that they are not Greek or Bulgarian...is the best defense a good offense?
Although at times useful when making a point during a discussion, constantly trying to demonstrate what we're not is self-deprecating and empowers those who seek to denigrate our identity. The emphasis should primarily be on what we are, that way we're rightfully on equal footing with other nations. We should always be presenting ourselves as Macedonians in a matter of fact kind of way. That is the most effective starting point to counter our detractors. Any other approach will not only lack integrity but it is likely to risk an inadvertent validation of their stupidity.
As a people, we need to be strong and respect ourselves, only then will others, including our enemies, fall into line. It's not about flexing our muscles, it's about standing our ground. This applies all the way from an individual Macedonian to the government of the Macedonian Republic. You can't start from a weak and self-destructive position and then expect to gain respect from everybody else. You can't accept being referred to by the acronym at the U.N then wonder why countries like Australia won't recognise Macedonia by its official name.
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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