Muslims in Balkan Should Promote Europe of Peace and Hope

[makedonche]

There is a great deal of confusion on this issue, especially with Muslims.

Let me explain it thus. Jesus is both the Son of God and God the Son.

When the Bible speaks of God the Son, and the Son of God, it does so in two ways.

1. Before time, and before anything else, the Father begot the Son. This was not the result of a sexual union or a virgin birth. At the same time, the Bible states the Son has always existed, and there was never a time when he didn't exist. God the Son is the Logos and creator of all things.

Since the Son of God is begotten of the Father eternally, the only logical conclusion is that the Son bears all the attributes of the Father, including his divine nature.

Consider an earthly example. When your father begot you, you were not any less human than him. You are both 100% human.

So God the Son is 100% God, just like the Father.

Now the Father may be considered "greater" than the "Son", even though both are 100% co-eternal and co-equal. The reason for this is because the Father is first in order (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) and because the Father begot the Son, and not the Son the Father.

2. God "beget" the son of God in human form when Jesus was born on this earth via the supernatural virgin birth. This birth was not the birth of God the Son, but it was the birth of the son of God in human form.

This explains why Jesus is both the "son of Man" and the "son of God".

Prior to this birth, Jesus existed, though he was not called Jesus.

In the Old Testament, Jesus was known as Jehovah.

Jehovah means the "Existing One".

Philosopher
Thank you for the explanation/interpretation. I see where you're coming from,I still also see much room for different interpretations, whether it be from Muslims or those with less knowledge or different upbringings. I suppose it's that human trait we have of expecting or looking for irrefutable hard evidence, as opposed to "faith".

[Risto the Great]

It is true Jesus is quoting Psalm 22. It is a prophetic passage.

The problem we have is sin. Our sins have separated us from God. We are alienated from him. The only way (again, according to the protocols and rules of the Bible) for God to be reconciled with sinners is through a mediator who is both God and Man.

A mediator is necessary between us and God because our sins have separated us from God.

Now this mediator, the God-Man, was crucified and he bore the curse of the law and the sins of all believers so instead of us, the sinners, be eternally condemned by God, God would only condemn the man Jesus, who was the sacrificial lamb, on our behalf.

So instead of all of humanity being turned away from God, God provides us a means to reconcile to himself via his Son, Jesus Christ.

This is why it states “God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son”...

This is the only means for salvation according to the Bible. This is why Jesus is called the passover lamb – God would pass over the sins of his people because the blood of the passover lamb protects them from the destroyer.

Are you still saying God forsook Jesus (the man)? It seems most disagree with this notion nowadays.

If we accept the prophetic psalm 22 reference, then Jesus was merely making a point to his people. He was never deserted by God and he knew he was coming back. How could you honestly be scared with such knowledge? I would simply call it a highly unique situation if we accept it as fact.

I feel the drama of this event is "sold" to Christians in a way that misrepresents what transpired biblically.

I will never reconcile the "only begotten son" with being "fully man" either. If Jesus was fully man (as well as fully God), then he was fully no different to you and me from a human perspective. I don't accept him as fully man, because he was clearly very very very different. So am yet to understand the significance of why he is portrayed as such. Talking about an only begotten son confirms he was not fully man in my mind.

I would state that to believe in Jesus Christ with all your heart, and make confession of faith onto God is the essential element of the Christian faith. This naturally entails the following:

1. I am a sinner.
2. Jesus Christ died for my sins.
3. Jesus Christ bodily resurrected for my justification.
4. Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior.

I was more interested in how you got your faith and to believing in Jesus Christ instead of the mystical Beetle god or whatever. Again, I would think accepting the Bible as God's word an essential prerequisite.

[Philosopher]

Are you still saying God forsook Jesus (the man)? It seems most disagree with this notion nowadays.

Jesus felt the separation of God on the cross because he bore our sins. God poured out his wrath on him instead of on us. This is why Jesus said "why hast thou forsaken me".

The sins which Jesus bore is what led to God and Jesus separating. Jesus bore the wrath of God and the curse of the law.

If we accept the prophetic psalm 22 reference, then Jesus was merely making a point to his people. He was never deserted by God and he knew he was coming back. How could you honestly be scared with such knowledge? I would simply call it a highly unique situation if we accept it as fact.

He was deserted by God because he bore our sins on the cross. Sins separate man from God. So Christ felt that separation in our place.

I will never reconcile the "only begotten son" with being "fully man" either. If Jesus was fully man (as well as fully God), then he was fully no different to you and me from a human perspective. I don't accept him as fully man, because he was clearly very very very different. So am yet to understand the significance of why he is portrayed as such. Talking about an only begotten son confirms he was not fully man in my mind.

Jesus was fully man. He was not Superman. His body was prone to sickness and disease like all humans. He was tempted by sin like all humans. He was capable of dying like all humans.

His Divine nature, however, was not.

In order for Jesus to be a suitable sacrifice, he had to be fully man, with human flesh and blood.

I was more interested in how you got your faith and to believing in Jesus Christ instead of the mystical Beetle god or whatever. Again, I would think accepting the Bible as God's word an essential prerequisite.

You are looking at this wrong. A person doesn't become a believer in Jesus as opposed to Zeus because he accepts the Bible as God's word. Why would anyone accept the Bible as God's word? This would be blind faith.

In truth, it is a top down approach where God works in the life of a person.

This is a mystery. The Spirit bloweth where it wills. It is the Spirit of God that regenerates a man. The Scriptures are spiritual milk and food to nourish and grow believers.

[George S.]

A real change for a christian is that once they have accepted the truths of the bible as the word of god and accepted jesus and what he accomplished and seen what god is accomplishing in man.A real christian is mean't to have a fellowship with god and jesus.God's spirit instilled in you.You behave with an inward nature.You are lead by the holy spirit.Christians can have false srnse of experiences too,God says that unless the father calls you to jesus and have the holy spirit in you you are none of his.It is not something you can work up.Similarly jesus didn't go out to plead and force people to become christians.Or trying to convert people to god.Unless god calls you you are none of his.
So people can be mistaken themselves and think that they decide when they will have the spirit in them.Its god's doing.

[George S.]

when jesus was telling his followeres to trust god and to pray to god.One thing he said about faith and If you have faith the size of the mustard seed you CAN MOVE MOUNTAINS.Who has that kind of faith today????THe power of faith is amazing you either have it or not.But its all done by the help of god.God's power the holy spirit.Think about it the power to move mountains is there all it takes is a small amount in faith in god.Trust god and he will do it.

[Big Bad Sven]

Is this directed to me or Jews? Not sure.



I'm not Jewish, but I did say Judaism is a racial religion. The subject here is Judaism; not the Jewish people.



So-called “black Jews” may not be Jewish at all. It they are related to Jews, it is very distantly.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/08/06/us-science-genetics-jews-idINBRE8751EI20120806

All Jews are related. All Jews are related. And all Jews are related.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/08/06/us-science-genetics-jews-idINBRE8751EI20120806

http://www.livescience.com/47755-european-jews-are-30th-cousins.html

There are many genetic studies which confirm this.

Anyway, to explain what I mean by “racial religion”.

Judaism is a religion based on the idea that God chose the Hebrews or Israel to be his chosen people. That being of the physical seed of Abraham makes them special. And anyone who reads the Old Testament, much worse still the Talmud, knows that Jews have a very low opinion of gentiles (non-Jews) and see them as inferior. The whole religion of Judaism is based on the physical pedigree of Jews, and the belief that God has exalted this people above all else.

When Jews interpret the Old Testament, they do so from a racial perspective, not a spirtual.

By contrast, Christianity is a spiritual religion based on a spiritual chosen people: those who accept Jesus as the Christ. The New Testament states that in Jesus there is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither male nor female neither bond nor free.

When Christians interpret the Passover implemented by Moses in the Book of Exodus we interpret it as a physical event portending a spiritual truth. Christians understand that the Passover was really a parable of the Gospel and it is applicable to all people, not just Jews.

This is an anathema to the Jews.

LOL european jews (or 'white jews') are mainly germanic or slavic in blood. There is nothing Semitic in them, or if they do have Semitic blood it is very little.

European jews and the emetic jews from the middle east are different people not the same race. Hence why Judaism is not a race but a religion.

African jews are not a 'recent occurrence', have been around since the 4th century (Kingdom of Semien and kingdom of Gondar). Some scholars (including jewish ones) believe the Ethiopian jews are descendants of the ancient jews who lives in Etheopia,

Asian jews are a more 'recent' thing, but still have a good 500-600 years of being jewish. To me thats enough time to be allowed to call your self a jew and be seen as a equal in Israel.

Yet ironically black jews and asian jews are seen as scum in Israel. Quite sad that you have black jews risking their lives in the IDF, and you have asian jews having yearly pilgrimages from china and Israel - and also getting persucated by the Chinese government for their belief in their religion - to be never seen as a equal in Israel LOL

At least in christianity or islam it doesnt matter if you are black or asian

[Big Bad Sven]

LOL european jews (or 'white jews') are mainly germanic or slavic in blood. There is nothing Semitic in them, or if they do have Semitic blood it is very little.

European jews and the emetic jews from the middle east are different people not the same race. Hence why Judaism is not a race but a religion.

African jews are not a 'recent occurrence', have been around since the 4th century (Kingdom of Semien and kingdom of Gondar). Some scholars (including jewish ones) believe the Ethiopian jews are descendants of the ancient jews who lives in Etheopia,

Asian jews are a more 'recent' thing, but still have a good 500-600 years of being jewish. To me thats enough time to be allowed to call your self a jew and be seen as a equal in Israel.

Yet ironically black jews and asian jews are seen as scum in Israel. Quite sad that you have black jews risking their lives in the IDF, and you have asian jews having yearly pilgrimages from china and Israel - and also getting persucated by the Chinese government for their belief in their religion - to be never seen as a equal in Israel LOL

At least in christianity or islam it doesnt matter if you are black or asian

DS: It’s the world! You go to Israel, the blacks are just treated like dogs.

V: So do you have to treat them like that too?

DS: The white Jews, there’s white Jews and black Jews, do you understand?

V: And are the black Jews less than the white Jews?

DS: A hundred percent, fifty, a hundred percent.

V: And is that right?

DS: It isn’t a question - we don’t evaluate what’s right and wrong, we live in a society. We live in a culture. We have to live within that culture.

http://blogs.forward.com/forward-thinking/197236/ugly-truth-behind-donald-sterlings-racist-rant/

[Philosopher]

LOL european jews (or 'white jews') are mainly germanic or slavic in blood. There is nothing Semitic in them, or if they do have Semitic blood it is very little.

That is not what the science shows.

European jews and the emetic jews from the middle east are different people not the same race. Hence why Judaism is not a race but a religion.

They are related. Genetic studies have confirmed this. And you don't understand what is meant by a "racial religion". If you do not understand what is meant by this term, having this conversation is a waste of time.

African jews are not a 'recent occurrence', have been around since the 4th century (Kingdom of Semien and kingdom of Gondar). Some scholars (including jewish ones) believe the Ethiopian jews are descendants of the ancient jews who lives in Etheopia,

Who said anything about a 'recent occurrence'. I wrote that African Jews are distantly related.

[George S.]

there are vast differences thats what i claimed and there is only one god not many.Many personages.

[George S.]

evolution means there is no god it just happened by itself no creation ,no designer no creator.how silly is it???jESUS SAID THAT IT'S SO SIMPLE A LITTLE CHILD CAN UNDESTAND IT.iN FUTURE GOD WILL REVEAL HIMSELF AND EVERYONE WILL KNOW.gOD WILL SHOW MAN EVERYTHING.

[Risto the Great]

Even this thread has now evolved into an evolution discussion!
PROOF!!!

[Phoenix]

That is not what the science shows.



They are related. Genetic studies have confirmed this. And you don't understand what is meant by a "racial religion". If you do not understand what is meant by this term, having this conversation is a waste of time.



Who said anything about a 'recent occurrence'. I wrote that African Jews are distantly related.

Philosopher, how much do you actually believe in science, or are you a bit of a bob each way sort of a guy...?

[julie]

evolution means there is no god it just happened by itself no creation ,no designer no creator.how silly is it???jESUS SAID THAT IT'S SO SIMPLE A LITTLE CHILD CAN UNDESTAND IT.iN FUTURE GOD WILL REVEAL HIMSELF AND EVERYONE WILL KNOW.gOD WILL SHOW MAN EVERYTHING.

How silly is evolution and science based facts ?
Oh dear.

[vicsinad]

Philosopher, how much do you actually believe in science, or are you a bit of a bob each way sort of a guy...?

Perhaps like many people, he utilizes in it when it fits his beliefs, and ignores it when it doesn't.

[George S.]

its called selective hearing and dancing to a different pipers tune.