Muslims in Balkan Should Promote Europe of Peace and Hope

[Risto the Great]

Not sure, but this guy is pretty good too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFXlWfzW9Uo

[Philosopher]

My genuine question on this matter to Christians is the issue about Jesus on the cross. Modern Christian thought insists on the dual nature of Jesus (both human and God). That this dual nature or "Hypostatic union" always ensured Jesus was both fully God and fully human. Rest assured, it confuses the shit out of me. Jesus asked "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" How can you be fully God and say that?

The answers usually talk about the "mystery of our faith". So .... let us together proclaim the mystery of faith

It is easy to explain. The Bible is, for lack of a better analogy, a book consisting of rules and protocols, similar to a game or sport. Football, for example, is a sport, and in this sport there are rules governing how the game is to be played. You and I may not like some of the rules and we may in fact think some of the rules need to be changed. But the rules, so long as they are valid, are officially binding.

The Bible is a collection of books consisting of rules and protocols. Under this system, God has proclaimed certain rules: all men are under sin. All are dead in their sins. A sin is literally "a missing of the mark". In other words, transgressing a command of God.

Sin spiritually separates us from God.

We need reconciliation.

This same rule book, the Bible, tells us that only by the shedding of blood is there forgiveness of sins. Now the Old Testament sacrificial system was implemented to pre-figure the sacrifice of Christ. It is obvious that the blood of bulls and goats cannot take away sin. Since sin and death came to the world by man (Adam), righteousness and life must also come by man (the second Adam, Jesus Christ).

But the man had to be without sin.

Enter the God-man Jesus Christ.

Now, when Jesus was crucified and he yelled out "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me", you must understand two things:

1. Sin separates us from God. Jesus bore the sins of his people on the cross. This means the man, Jesus, was under the wrath of God, and under the curse of the law; hence, he was forsaken by God. Hence, Jesus' statement on the cross -- God forsook him because he bore the sins of his people.

2. Within the Trinity, we have three separate persons. Within the life of Jesus, we have both God and man. Looking at Jesus on the cross, we have God and man; and we have one third of the Trinity. It is easy to understand how Jesus is both forsaken by God, and yet always in union with God, as he is both God and man.

Does this help?

[spitfire]

Yeap. A blood thirsty God. That's what he is. Or she is.

That explains everything.

[Philosopher]

This part in itself is enough to cause doubt/confusion/different interpretations, don't you think?

There is a great deal of confusion on this issue, especially with Muslims.

Let me explain it thus. Jesus is both the Son of God and God the Son.

When the Bible speaks of God the Son, and the Son of God, it does so in two ways.

1. Before time, and before anything else, the Father begot the Son. This was not the result of a sexual union or a virgin birth. At the same time, the Bible states the Son has always existed, and there was never a time when he didn't exist. God the Son is the Logos and creator of all things.

Since the Son of God is begotten of the Father eternally, the only logical conclusion is that the Son bears all the attributes of the Father, including his divine nature.

Consider an earthly example. When your father begot you, you were not any less human than him. You are both 100% human.

So God the Son is 100% God, just like the Father.

Now the Father may be considered "greater" than the "Son", even though both are 100% co-eternal and co-equal. The reason for this is because the Father is first in order (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) and because the Father begot the Son, and not the Son the Father.

2. God "beget" the son of God in human form when Jesus was born on this earth via the supernatural virgin birth. This birth was not the birth of God the Son, but it was the birth of the son of God in human form.

This explains why Jesus is both the "son of Man" and the "son of God".

Prior to this birth, Jesus existed, though he was not called Jesus.

In the Old Testament, Jesus was known as Jehovah.

Jehovah means the "Existing One".

[Risto the Great]

Does this help?

No, but thanks.
If he is fully God and fully man, then he is not abandoned. It is beyond comprehension to assume God has deserted himself. I don't think faith will ever get me over this ultimate hump.

[Philosopher]

No, but thanks.
If he is fully God and fully man, then he is not abandoned. It is beyond comprehension to assume God has deserted himself. I don't think faith will ever get me over this ultimate hump.

I do not think you understand.

The Second person in the Trinity was not forsaken, as there is one God in eternal union.

God did not abandon himself.

Jesus the man was forsaken on the cross because he bore the sins of his people.

[George S.]

Tou all sound confused the bible is very positive on various issues.The bible if you read it from start to finish explains itself god does a lot of revealing of himself via different scriptures.The n in the new testament jesus reveals god.He came to amplify god.Jesus puts god first.Jesus shows the way.He says we must say the lords prayer on a daily basis.WE pray to god the father.
Lord's Prayer
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For alternative meanings, see Lord's Prayer (disambiguation), Our Father (disambiguation), and Pater Noster (disambiguation).

The Sermon on the Mount by Carl Heinrich BlochThe Lord's Prayer, also called the Our Father and the Pater Noster,[1] is a venerated Christian prayer that, according to the New Testament, was taught by Jesus to his disciples. Two forms of it are recorded in the New Testament: a longer form in the Gospel of Matthew[6:5–13] as part of the Sermon on the Mount, and a shorter form in the Gospel of Luke[11:1–4] as a response by Jesus to a request by "one of his disciples" to teach them "to pray as John taught his disciples". The prayer concludes with "deliver us from evil" in Matthew, and with "lead us not into temptation" in Luke. The first three of the seven petitions in Matthew address God; the other four are related to our needs and concerns. The liturgical form is the Matthean. Some Christians, particularly Protestants, conclude the prayer with a doxology, a later addendum appearing in some manuscripts of Matthew.

The prayer as it occurs in Matthew 6:9–13
Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name.
Your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth, as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil. The prayer as it occurs in Luke 11:2–4
Father,
hallowed be your name.
Your kingdom come.
.
.
Give us each day our daily bread,
and forgive us our sins
for we ourselves forgive everyone who is indebted to us.
And lead us not into temptation.

The context of the prayer in Matthew is a discourse deploring people who pray ostentatiously: Jesus instructs his listeners to pray in the manner prescribed in the prayer. Taking into account its structure, flow of subject matter and emphases, one interpretation[2] of the Lord's Prayer is as a guideline on how to pray rather than something to be learned and repeated by rote. The New Testament records Jesus and his disciples praying on several occasions, but never this specific prayer, so the application and understanding of the prayer during the ministry of Jesus is unknown.

In biblical criticism, the prayer's absence in the Gospel of Mark together with its occurrence in Matthew and Luke has caused scholars who accept the two-source hypothesis (against other document hypotheses) to conclude that it is probably a logion original to Q
On Easter Sunday 2007, it was estimated that many of the two thousand million (or two billion) Catholic, Anglican, Protestant and Eastern Orthodox Christians who were sharing in the celebration of Easter would read, recite, or sing the short prayer in hundreds of languages. Although theological differences and various modes of worship divide Christians, according to Fuller Seminary professor Clayton Schmit, "there is a sense of solidarity in knowing that Christians around the globe are praying together..., and these words always unite us."[
Your kingdom come What did jesus mean??Its god 's kingdom composed of spirit and his begotten sons.That's us .We are ultimately going to rule not only the earth but ultimately the WHOLE UNIVERSE.YOu ARE ALL CONFUSED AND ARE UNDERSTANDING GOD.
GOD IS NOT A TRINITY.GOD IS ONE BUT MANY PERSNAGES.OF ALL THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE LIVED BILLIONS <TRILLIONS ETC ARE GOING TO BE BEGOTTEN OF GOD.BORN OF GOD OF THE SPIRIT.STOP ARGUING COZ YOU DON"T UNDERSTAND GODS WAYS I DO.I JUST TOLD YOU JESEUS REVEALS THE FUTURE OF WHAT IS TO COME WHEN HE WAS ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES.HE PROPHESIDES>ALSO HE REVEALS TO US IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION.IT SAYS CHRIST THE REVEALATOR.GOD SHOWS CHRIST WHAT IS TO COME and JESUS REVEALS IT.A LITTLE CHILD COULD UNDERSTAND IT IT IS SO SIMPLE.
GUYS THINK ABOUT IT JESUS SAYS ON THE CRUSIFICTION THAT ITS GOD"S WILL BUT NOT HIS.WE HAVE TO PUT our TRUST IN GOD above all things.

[George S.]

Do people know what it means to be born again
Or to be born of god????? Jts got nothing to do
With flesh and blood.its to spirit.

[spitfire]

Do people know what it means to be born again

How many do you want? Over a billion in India.

[George S.]

Whatever god wants.trillions??

[spitfire]

Whatever god wants.trillions??

Reincarnation. It's basic for Hindus. They know.

[George S.]

Do you realize that jesus is the lord and is god.
They both existed allways.

[Risto the Great]

I do not think you understand.

The Second person in the Trinity was not forsaken, as there is one God in eternal union.

God did not abandon himself.

Jesus the man was forsaken on the cross because he bore the sins of his people.

So the man was forsaken. That makes more sense.

I read more about it. Some writers suggest he wasn't abandoned, that he was merely quoting an earlier text before describing other matters. Others say that the sins of mankind he took upon himself made him revolting to God, so he was not able to be looked at by God. Because God was too pure to look upon pure evil. .... opinions

My most comfortable readings seems to suggest Jesus (the man) was not forsaken. Merely that his reference to previous texts "psalm 22" was used as a bit of a final heads up on the matter at hand.

Some exquisite words, referencing and suggestion I might say.

I would think suggesting Jesus (the man) was forsaken by God is a terrible thing for Christians. That evil will be turned away from by God. That my father would be unable to look at me if I have sinned. So I will not agree with what you are saying at all. In the hope that I (as a sinner) might get a slap around the ears, a wink and a hall pass in the afterlife.

So, as thankful and respectful as I am for you sharing your opinions on the matter, I can see evidence of the opinions and arseholes comparison here. We all have them. But am happy to move on.

Since you are a willing participant in these discussions, can I trouble you more with one question.

What aspects of faith do you feel are necessary to accept in order to embrace Christianity. I give one example:

"Belief that the Bible is God's word."

Perhaps this is not necessary for you and that you have organised facts in your head (similarly to Vangelovski) such that you do not see any mystery in this specific matter. But, hopefully, it explains what I mean.

cheers

[Philosopher]

I would think suggesting Jesus (the man) was forsaken by God is a terrible thing for Christians. That evil will be turned away from by God. That my father would be unable to look at me if I have sinned. So I will not agree with what you are saying at all. In the hope that I (as a sinner) might get a slap around the ears, a wink and a hall pass in the afterlife.

It is true Jesus is quoting Psalm 22. It is a prophetic passage.

The problem we have is sin. Our sins have separated us from God. We are alienated from him. The only way (again, according to the protocols and rules of the Bible) for God to be reconciled with sinners is through a mediator who is both God and Man.

A mediator is necessary between us and God because our sins have separated us from God.

Now this mediator, the God-Man, was crucified and he bore the curse of the law and the sins of all believers so instead of us, the sinners, be eternally condemned by God, God would only condemn the man Jesus, who was the sacrificial lamb, on our behalf.

So instead of all of humanity being turned away from God, God provides us a means to reconcile to himself via his Son, Jesus Christ.

This is why it states “God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son”...

This is the only means for salvation according to the Bible. This is why Jesus is called the passover lamb – God would pass over the sins of his people because the blood of the passover lamb protects them from the destroyer.

What aspects of faith do you feel are necessary to accept in order to embrace Christianity.

I would state that to believe in Jesus Christ with all your heart, and make confession of faith onto God is the essential element of the Christian faith. This naturally entails the following:

1. I am a sinner.
2. Jesus Christ died for my sins.
3. Jesus Christ bodily resurrected for my justification.
4. Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior.

[George S.]

God the fatherdid not simply abandon him but allowed him to be the same as any human.BuThe was still the son of god but in the fledh then he became spirit.i dont know if forsaken is yhe right word?
God did not absnfon him completely only sllowed enough
For jesus to complete the job.