Muslims in Balkan Should Promote Europe of Peace and Hope

[Bill77]

Originally Posted by Risto the Great
IF THE JEWS DO NOT ACCEPT THE TRINITY, WHY ON EARTH (LITERALLY) WILL THEY BE AFFORDED (BY GOD) ANYTHING BENEFICIAL OVER THE SINNING CHRISTIANS ?

I wouldn't mind seeing an answer to this either?

Gods choice is his choice, it's a question you would have to ask God I supose.

[Momce Makedonce]

Thanks George. Any other Christians who have put their faith in Jesus want to say whether they believe the Bible is God's Word and absolutely true?

I would class myself into this category as well.

[Vangelovski]

Originally Posted by Risto the Great
IF THE JEWS DO NOT ACCEPT THE TRINITY, WHY ON EARTH (LITERALLY) WILL THEY BE AFFORDED (BY GOD) ANYTHING BENEFICIAL OVER THE SINNING CHRISTIANS ?

I wouldn't mind seeing an answer to this either?

Makedonche, Israel, or a remnant of the Jewish people will come to salvation in the last days and the nation of Israel made up of this remnant will take its rightful place as God promised them from the beginning.

Here is an article that briefly explains why:

(Romans 11:16–24) depicts Israel as distinct from the Church: the “natural branches” are the Jews, and the “wild branches” are the Gentiles. The “olive tree” is the collective people of God. The “natural branches” (Jews) are “cut off” the tree for unbelief, and the “wild branches” (believing Gentiles) are grafted in. This has the effect of making the Jews “jealous” and then drawing them to faith in Christ, so they might be “grafted in” again and receive their promised inheritance. The “natural branches” are still distinct from the “wild branches,” so that God’s covenant with His people is literally fulfilled. Romans 11:26–29, citing Isaiah 59:20–21; 27:9; Jeremiah 31:33–34, says:

“And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: ‘The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.’ As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.”

Here, Paul emphasizes the “irrevocable” nature of Israel’s calling as a nation (see also Romans 11:12). Isaiah predicted that a “remnant” of Israel would one day “be called the Holy People, the Redeemed of the LORD” (Isaiah 62:12). Regardless of Israel’s current state of unbelief, a future remnant will in fact repent and fulfil their calling to establish righteousness by faith (Romans 10:1–8;11:5). This conversion will coincide with the fulfilment of Moses’ prediction of Israel’s permanent restoration to the land (Deuteronomy 30:1–10).

When Paul says Israel will be “saved” in Romans 11:26, he refers to their deliverance from sin (verse 27) as they accept the Saviour, their Messiah, in the end times. Moses said, “The Lord your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live” (Deuteronomy 30:6). Israel’s physical inheritance of the land promised to Abraham will be an integral part of God’s ultimate plan (Deuteronomy 30:3–5).

So how will “all Israel be saved”? The details of this deliverance are filled out in passages such as Zechariah 8—14 and Revelation 7—19, which speak of end-times Israel at Christ’s return. The key verse describing the coming to faith of the future remnant of Israel is Zechariah 12:10, “I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a first born son.” This occurs at the end of the tribulation prophesied in Daniel 9:24–27. The apostle John references this event in Revelation 1:7. The faithful remnant of Israel is epitomized in Revelation 7:1–8. These faithful ones the Lord will save and bring back to Jerusalem “in truth and righteousness” (Zechariah 8:7–8,).

After Israel is spiritually restored, Christ will establish His millennial kingdom on earth. Israel will be regathered from the ends of the earth (Isaiah 11:12; 62:10). The symbolic “dry bones” of Ezekiel’s vision will be brought together, covered with flesh, and miraculously resuscitated (Ezekiel 37:1–14). As God promised, the salvation of Israel will involve both a spiritual awakening and a geographical home: “I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land” (Ezekiel 37:14).

In the Day of the Lord, God will “reclaim the surviving remnant of his people” (Isaiah 11:11). Jesus Christ will return to destroy the armies gathered against Him in rebellion (Revelation 19). Sinners will be judged, and the faithful remnant of Israel will be set apart forever as God’s holy people (Zechariah 13:8—14:21). Isaiah 12 is their song of deliverance; Zion will rule over all the nations under the banner of the Messiah (Jesus).

[Vangelovski]

I would class myself into this category as well.

Thanks Momce Makedonce. Can I also ask you if by this you mean you have put your faith in Jesus?

I never realised how many Christians there actually were on this forum!

[Vangelovski]

Gods choice is his choice, it's a question you would have to ask God I supose.

In addition to the article I posted, ultimately, you are right, it is God's choice!

[Momce Makedonce]

Thanks Momce Makedonce. Can I also ask you if by this you mean you have put your faith in Jesus?

I never realised how many Christians there actually were on this forum!

Yes, definitely.

[Vangelovski]

Yes, definitely.

That's fantastic Momce Makedonce! I've been humbled, I thought it was just me and a couple of others on here.

I will pray and give thanks for all of you.

[Momce Makedonce]

That's fantastic Momce Makedonce! I've been humbled, I thought it was just me and a couple of others on here.

I will pray and give thanks for all of you.

Thanks Vangelovski, I will do likewise for you.

[Vangelovski]

Thanks Vangelovski, I will do likewise for you.

Thanks mate

[Philosopher]

Makedonche, Israel, or a remnant of the Jewish people will come to salvation in the last days and the nation of Israel made up of this remnant will take its rightful place as God promised them from the beginning.

Here is an article that briefly explains why:

(Romans 11:16–24) depicts Israel as distinct from the Church: the “natural branches” are the Jews, and the “wild branches” are the Gentiles. The “olive tree” is the collective people of God. The “natural branches” (Jews) are “cut off” the tree for unbelief, and the “wild branches” (believing Gentiles) are grafted in. This has the effect of making the Jews “jealous” and then drawing them to faith in Christ, so they might be “grafted in” again and receive their promised inheritance. The “natural branches” are still distinct from the “wild branches,” so that God’s covenant with His people is literally fulfilled. Romans 11:26–29, citing Isaiah 59:20–21; 27:9; Jeremiah 31:33–34, says:

“And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: ‘The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.’ As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.”

Here, Paul emphasizes the “irrevocable” nature of Israel’s calling as a nation (see also Romans 11:12). Isaiah predicted that a “remnant” of Israel would one day “be called the Holy People, the Redeemed of the LORD” (Isaiah 62:12). Regardless of Israel’s current state of unbelief, a future remnant will in fact repent and fulfil their calling to establish righteousness by faith (Romans 10:1–8;11:5). This conversion will coincide with the fulfilment of Moses’ prediction of Israel’s permanent restoration to the land (Deuteronomy 30:1–10).

When Paul says Israel will be “saved” in Romans 11:26, he refers to their deliverance from sin (verse 27) as they accept the Saviour, their Messiah, in the end times. Moses said, “The Lord your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live” (Deuteronomy 30:6). Israel’s physical inheritance of the land promised to Abraham will be an integral part of God’s ultimate plan (Deuteronomy 30:3–5).

So how will “all Israel be saved”? The details of this deliverance are filled out in passages such as Zechariah 8—14 and Revelation 7—19, which speak of end-times Israel at Christ’s return. The key verse describing the coming to faith of the future remnant of Israel is Zechariah 12:10, “I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a first born son.” This occurs at the end of the tribulation prophesied in Daniel 9:24–27. The apostle John references this event in Revelation 1:7. The faithful remnant of Israel is epitomized in Revelation 7:1–8. These faithful ones the Lord will save and bring back to Jerusalem “in truth and righteousness” (Zechariah 8:7–8,).

After Israel is spiritually restored, Christ will establish His millennial kingdom on earth. Israel will be regathered from the ends of the earth (Isaiah 11:12; 62:10). The symbolic “dry bones” of Ezekiel’s vision will be brought together, covered with flesh, and miraculously resuscitated (Ezekiel 37:1–14). As God promised, the salvation of Israel will involve both a spiritual awakening and a geographical home: “I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land” (Ezekiel 37:14).

In the Day of the Lord, God will “reclaim the surviving remnant of his people” (Isaiah 11:11). Jesus Christ will return to destroy the armies gathered against Him in rebellion (Revelation 19). Sinners will be judged, and the faithful remnant of Israel will be set apart forever as God’s holy people (Zechariah 13:8—14:21). Isaiah 12 is their song of deliverance; Zion will rule over all the nations under the banner of the Messiah (Jesus).

I would disagree with much of this article.

[Vangelovski]

I would disagree with much of this article.

Would you offer your views?

[Philosopher]

Would you offer your views?

I would be glad to. But time does not permit me to do so now.

For the present, I would only add that the views expressed by this author have never existed in Christian thought till about the 18th or 19th centuries. This does not make the article wrong; it just makes one wonder why Christians in previous centuries did not believe such things to be true.

[Philosopher]

Originally Posted by Risto the Great
IF THE JEWS DO NOT ACCEPT THE TRINITY, WHY ON EARTH (LITERALLY) WILL THEY BE AFFORDED (BY GOD) ANYTHING BENEFICIAL OVER THE SINNING CHRISTIANS ?

I wouldn't mind seeing an answer to this either?

The answer is simple. The Jews are and will not be afforded anything beneficial over any people. The Jews will be judged the same by God as all people.

[Vangelovski]

I would be glad to. But time does not permit me to do so now.

For the present, I would only add that the views expressed by this author have never existed in Christian thought till about the 18th or 19th centuries. This does not make the article wrong; it just makes one wonder why Christians in previous centuries did not believe such things to be true.

I'm not sure that Christians never believed that and while it may have been reinterpreted, I believe the early church certainly held that view. Ultimately, I'm not concerned about traditional beliefs and interpretations, rather, I'm interested in what the Bible actually says (as I know you are). I think Paul is very straightforward about Israel in Romans, for example, and I would particularly be interested to read what you think about Romans chapters 9 through to 11 where he discusses the remnant of Israel and God's plan for them at some length.

Not to label it, but are you generally of the view held by 'replacement theology'?

[Vangelovski]

The answer is simple. The Jews are and will not be afforded anything beneficial over any people. The Jews will be judged the same by God as all people.

This is true - my response was clarifying my original statement, which RtG muddled up so badly that he's welcome to speak to the words he put in my mouth.