carnivorous or vegetarian?

[Phoenix]

No.

Are you?

No, I'm not a paleo convert.

Just trying to eliminate sugary/highly processed/junk food...and it definitely works

[DraganOfStip]

Interesting Gocka, you've gone to some trouble to play around with the mix of ingredients.
I must say, I've never seen sour cream added to them before?

Yes,if you want the meat mix to have that extra something in it,you use kajmak (not sour cream) in the mix as well.
Here's a recipe for kebapi with kajmak:

http://struga.altervista.org/blog/recept-za-sovrseni-cebapcinja/

And not only in kebapi,but also in a burger mixture.
Many varieties of burgers also include burgers filled with kajmak,or cheese.
The following is a Greek burger (we like to call it Aegean here,from obvious reasons).It's a variety of burger that's filled with cheese (kaskaval):


Also there is the Sharska burger,a varieti filled (and topped) with traditional macedonian white cheese:


And of course there is the inevitable Hunters burger,where in the grinded meat mix you add small-chopped pieces of ungrinded meat and spices to make it hot (some varieties of this include diced hot pepper in the mix as well).
Unfortunately,I couldn't find an image of it online so I'll have to leave it to your imagination .

[Vangelovski]

Sometimes I wonder why I have no free time, then I realize its because I spent all of it on some random obsession.

One time it was pizza. It started with buying pizza dough and using canned sauce and shredded mozzarella. I kid you not a few months later I was making dough from scratch with imported Italian flour, I grew my own tomatoes to make sauce from, I made mozzarella from fresh milk, bought a pizza stone, it only ended when my wife had to intervene and stop me from building a brick oven in the yard because the oven wasn't "hot enough".

Pretty soon ill be keeping livestock to kjebapi.

If you're going to do something you've got to do it properly

[Philosopher]

No, I'm not a paleo convert.

Just trying to eliminate sugary/highly processed/junk food...and it definitely works

It is interesting to witness how the times are changing. In the ancient world, the common belief among all people was that food was medicine. This was the only medicine (herbs, weeds, vegetables, et al.).

This worldview changed dramatically in the last few hundred years when allopathic doctors began to replace naturopathic doctors.

Today, this is changing. People are slowly awakening to the reality that what they put in their body is the cause of their health or sickness. New research on the medicinal, both preventive and curative, properties of food have been documented. Many modern Medical Doctors are still in this dark, however, about the benefits of diet, and are still prescribing poisonous drugs, surgery, and chemotherapy.

No one is sick or diseased because they have a deficiency of drugs, chemotherapy, or surgery.

There is always a rush to "cure" cancer or some other disease.

There already is a cure for cancer and all disease. It is called the immune system.

This is why I look at food as more than just "it smells good and tastes good". Food is fuel. Dead, devitalized food, produces sickness and death in the body. Live, sun baked foods, are real foods.

This is why a whole foods diet is essential for the human race.

[Gocka]

Yes,if you want the meat mix to have that extra something in it,you use kajmak (not sour cream) in the mix as well.

In English Kajmak and pavlaka is either sour cream or plain yogurt. Sour cream is almost to the same as plain yogurt just a little more pungent so maybe its more accurate to say Kajmak is yogurt and pavlaka is sour cream.


Macedonian yogurt for drinking is similar to buttermilk.

Mind you none of the Western equivalents are exactly like the Macedonian ones but unless you have the authentic ones its the closest thing.

[DraganOfStip]

In English Kajmak and pavlaka is either sour cream or plain yogurt. Sour cream is almost to the same as plain yogurt just a little more pungent so maybe its more accurate to say Kajmak is yogurt and pavlaka is sour cream.


Macedonian yogurt for drinking is similar to buttermilk.

Mind you none of the Western equivalents are exactly like the Macedonian ones but unless you have the authentic ones its the closest thing.

I don't think there is an English equivalent for the macedonian "kajmak".
It is more thick and has more fat than pavlaka (sour cream) so it's not the appropriate replacement for it.
Kajmak has usually around 50-60% fat and sour cream 15-20%,so mistaking the two will result with wrong finish product in cuisine.
And yes,what Macedonians refer to as yogurt is quite different than what westerners refer to as yogurt.
So if one is not careful in reading a recipe he might find himself in a very bad situation in the kitchen.

[Gocka]

I didn't realize kajmak had such a high fat content. If that's the case you can just add some heavy cream to sour cream and it should be close enough. I have a batch of kjebapi that I froze a week ago that I am thawing to cook tonight. What is you suggestion on the kajmak? All American dairy is fucking low fat!

Is kajmak basically then heavy cream that has cultured like kiselo mleko? Maybe ill try adding some butter milk or plain yogurt to heavy cream until it thickens a bit.

Whats you take on using flour in the mix? I've tried bread crumbs but i didn't like how it came out, will the flour help retain fat? That is my biggest problem, I loose too much fat and moisture during cooking.

I don't think there is an English equivalent for the macedonian "kajmak".
It is more thick and has more fat than pavlaka (sour cream) so it's not the appropriate replacement for it.
Kajmak has usually around 50-60% fat and sour cream 15-20%,so mistaking the two will result with wrong finish product in cuisine.
And yes,what Macedonians refer to as yogurt is quite different than what westerners refer to as yogurt.
So if one is not careful in reading a recipe he might find himself in a very bad situation in the kitchen.

[Philosopher]

Macedonian yogurt for drinking is similar to buttermilk.

I do not think your statement is accurate. Macedonian yogurt is equivalent to kefir. Kefir may be bought at health foods stores. Usually you can buy goat or cow milk kefir.

I think Macedonian yogurt is traditionally made with sheep's milk. Goat's kefir does not taste as good as sheep's milk kefir, however. Goat milk kefir is less fatty, less creamy, and more salty.

[Tomche Makedonche]

What Macedonians in RoM refer today as yogurt, is what is known in Australia as Buttermilk.

I've always known it as Mashtajnca / Mashtanica (that's what we call it from where I'm from)

I have no idea when or who decided to start calling Mashtajnca yogurt in that country but that's what it is, Buttermilk. I'll drink a litre of it with a nice hot meat burek, and if an Australian of British heritage sees me doing it, their facial expression is similar to this

[Phoenix]

What Macedonians in RoM refer today as yogurt, is what is known in Australia as Buttermilk.

I've always known it as Mashtajnca / Mashtanica (that's what we call it from where I'm from)

I have no idea when or who decided to start calling Mashtajnca yogurt in that country but that's what it is, Buttermilk. I'll drink a litre of it with a nice hot meat burek, and if an Australian of British heritage sees me doing it, their facial expression is similar to this

I agree.

We call it matejanca though.

[makedonche]

I agree.

We call it matejanca though.

Phoenix
Interesting...we Kotorci call it Bijanitsa.

[DraganOfStip]

I didn't realize kajmak had such a high fat content. If that's the case you can just add some heavy cream to sour cream and it should be close enough. I have a batch of kjebapi that I froze a week ago that I am thawing to cook tonight. What is you suggestion on the kajmak? All American dairy is fucking low fat!

Is kajmak basically then heavy cream that has cultured like kiselo mleko? Maybe ill try adding some butter milk or plain yogurt to heavy cream until it thickens a bit.

Whats you take on using flour in the mix? I've tried bread crumbs but i didn't like how it came out, will the flour help retain fat? That is my biggest problem, I loose too much fat and moisture during cooking.

If you don't have kajmak then i would suggest not to add anything you feel could be replacement for it in your mix.
Why experimenting and ruin a good deal of kebapi?
Besides,kajmak is used in small quantities (a spoon or up to 50 gr as I recal) so I don't think that leaving it out will have a big effect on the flavor or texture.

Regarding use of flour,I don't think I can help you there.
At home I do use some bread crumbs but home made kebapi and the ones you buy from the butcher shop or those you eat in a restaurant are far from being the same thing.
I don't know how they make them because they're sold already prepared and ready to grill,so I'm not sure if they use flour or bread crumbs at all...

[Philosopher]

What Macedonians in RoM refer today as yogurt, is what is known in Australia as Buttermilk.

I've always known it as Mashtajnca / Mashtanica (that's what we call it from where I'm from)

I have no idea when or who decided to start calling Mashtajnca yogurt in that country but that's what it is, Buttermilk. I'll drink a litre of it with a nice hot meat burek, and if an Australian of British heritage sees me doing it, their facial expression is similar to this

Buttermilk is a different product from kefir. They are both fermented milks. The difference between the products is the live cultures. The only way we can prove one way or another is if someone from Macedonia lists all the live cultures used to make Macedonian yogurt. Generally speaking, kefir has the most broad spectrum live cultures, far more so than traditional western yogurt.

What live cultures are used to make Macedonian yogurt? List please?

[Gocka]

In Ohrid we call Mashtejntsa when you water down yogurt and tear up bread and eat it like popara.

What Macedonians in RoM refer today as yogurt, is what is known in Australia as Buttermilk.

I've always known it as Mashtajnca / Mashtanica (that's what we call it from where I'm from)

I have no idea when or who decided to start calling Mashtajnca yogurt in that country but that's what it is, Buttermilk. I'll drink a litre of it with a nice hot meat burek, and if an Australian of British heritage sees me doing it, their facial expression is similar to this

[DraganOfStip]

Combination of fish and dairy products is toxic and great hazard to your body - myth or true?
This is something I have come across many times from other people,contemplated with a couple of first hand testimonies by friends/family and is considered general opinion.
Are you familiar with this or is it just a coincidence?