Slavic Brotherhood

[Redsun]

T - how can you talk about Macedonians being in the same region and being a major influence on the region but also say there was a migration, its either one or the other it cant be both,


This is your assumption, what region and time period did I mention? When I made comparisons, I didn’t mention anything about Slav’s in Macedonia.

I was talking about the time period leading up to 600AD, as for the use of the word “migration” this was to explain the movement of the Slav’s not a migration of Macedonians.

The region, I didn’t mention anything about the Slav’s entering Macedonia (I didn’t include the region of Macedonia) as I never discussed any period after 600AD. Correct me if I’m wrong, was their movement not recorded by the byzantine empire, they had only reached the Danube by then, I’m not aware of them entering Macedonia before 680 or 690.

Understand?

[DraganOfStip]

Westerners do not see a distinction between a Macedonian and a Pole. It is all Slavic. Macedonian surnames, which is a separate topic altogether, are commonly mistaken as Polish (via the "ski"). The assumption is, even after ascertaining a person is not Polish, but Macedonian, that they are the same people and the language is the same (it is all Slavic to them).

In my personal experience,they confuse everyone who's surname ends with "ski" with Russians,not Poles.

How do Macedonians on this forum perceive other ethncities with a Slavic language?

Simple - like separate ethnicity,like they should be perceived.

DNA studies seem to suggest a great chasm of difference between northern Slavic speakers and southern Slavic speakers. Yet, they all speak a Slavic language.

The difference in the DNA is the result of nation mixing,the newly-forged people came as result of intermarriages of the newcomers with the indigenous people of the region in question.

Is it the opinion of the members of this forum that all Slavic speakers, despite the differences in genetic tests, all share a common lineage? That they all descend from so-called Slavic tribes? Or is it the opinion of this forum that what we have is very different peoples speaking the same language family because the Slavic language spread throughout eastern Europe, from south to north? Or north to south, as mainstream scholars argue?

Common lineage?Hardly.
Same language family?Most likely,yes.There are just too many similarities in the Slavic languages to question that.

What is your opinion on the Slavic migration theory?

[Soldier of Macedon]

In their minds, although they are different ethnicities, they are essentially the same people. And the reason for this is that they speak the same language.

Ok....so there are ignorant westerners. What's your point?

In my experience, I have had people, who know I am Macedonian, bring in other Slavic speakers (be it from Slovakia, Poland, etc) and ask me if I can listen to them to see if I can understand them.

I have done the same with Italian, Portuguese and Spanish people, with German and Dutch people, and with Scandinavian people when I have been in their company. It's no big secret that languages which belong to the same groups have (varying) degrees of mutual intelligibility.

Yes, but this is not noticed by them.

That's because not many people care about the origin of a surname unless they have an interest in the subject.

Names ending in ski typically conjure up Polish people. So when a non-Polish person has it, there is a great deal of shock to learn someone has a "ski" and not be Polish or Russian. And even if you were to explain it is Macedonian, the ignorant who are not even aware of a country called Macedonia even exists, assume it must be near Poland.

That really depends on the region. In many Melbourne suburbs (such as Preston, which you're probably very familiar with), for example, there are way more Macedonians than Poles or Russians, and thus the latter two can (and have) been mistaken as being Macedonian due to their surnames, something which I have personally witnessed a number of times. But again, I fail to see your point aside from some sort of attempt to either state the overwhelmingly obvious or elevate ignorance to prominence.

Let's face it: this suffix is not native to the southern Balkan surnames and is most commonly used by northern Slavic speakers. And here I do not mean its general usage as "from" or "originating from".

What is the earliest historical record where -ski is attached to a name or surname? Is it from the north or the Balkans? There are millions of people in Russia and elsewhere who also have surnames that end in -ov, -ev and -ich, most of which are merely suffixes developed through the formalisation of patronymic or genitive / possessive case endings.

How would you characterize it?

I would characterise the Slavic language group as developing from a pool of broadly related southern and eastern European languages which eventually became more distinct due to both internal innovation and external influences. I would base that characterisation on the relationship between Baltic and Slavic languages and the distinct similarities they share with Paleo-Balkan languages.

I find it strange that, if the Slavs overtook all of the Balkans, and managed to mix with the Macedonians and Greeks in fairly similar proportions, how is that the "Slavic" language stuck in "Macedonia" but not in Greece?

What is your opinion on that?

I come from a family where some members see Macedonia as southern Serbia. This is all Communist Yugoslav propaganda.

I have met some Macedonians that consider Serbs as our closest 'brothers' or 'cousins'. Even among the staunchest of them I never heard any of them refer to Macedonia as southern Serbia. By the way, communist Yugoslavia didn't refer to Macedonia as southern Serbia.

its only natural, we all share similar attributes, let it Religion,Pagan customs,food,music amongst other things, cyril spread the bible to the slavonic lands, this was the lingua franca of balkans and eastern Europe....

I agree, due to the spread of religion and literacy by Macedonian scholars (followed by others), the belonging to common states at some point or another, and/or the fact that most nations which speak a Slavic language live close to each other in one of three compact regional groups, it is only natural that there are similarities. But one could argue that Macedonians probably have more cultural similarities to other Balkan peoples as opposed to those that live beyond the Carpathians.

Constantinople opposed cyril travelling north as they didnt want the people to fall under ohrid archbishopric, constantinople sent teachers with greek and latin bibles......

Just to clarify on the above, it was Constantinople (Emperor Michael III specifically) who sent Cyril and Methodius north, the Archbishopric of Ohrid in Macedonia did not exist at the time, and Constantinople would not have been promoting Latin bibles as late as the 9th century.

[George S.]

Constellation you are drawing an long bow when it comes to ethnicity.As you know the lid blew in the 1990's regarding the so called yugoslavs.You had a total disintergration of yugoslavia an artificially created country by josif broz tito.WE had a warning when tito died yugoslavia would be no more.What gives you the impression that it was some kind of brotherhood.??THink what the serbs tried to do is give the impression that were second class citizens for years.Our language wasn't even included in yuygoslavia as a language it was serbo croatian.So what brotherhood is that.The term south slav was yugoslavia a meaning less term jut like calling yourself fyrom.It doesn't mean anything.
You might say we were robbed of our identity whils't we were part of yugoslavia.We were simply another state of serbia.WE were being taken advantage of by the powers that be.On disintergration remember the yugobank fiasco and also we didn't get any share of the weapons serbia took them all.
It is not all macedonians that beleive they are slavs some were conditioned to beleive that.A lot of people don't regard the slavic migration theory as true.also people don't beleive that they are just slavs too.

[Constellation]

Constellation you are drawing an long bow when it comes to ethnicity.As you know the lid blew in the 1990's regarding the so called yugoslavs.You had a total disintergration of yugoslavia an artificially created country by josif broz tito.WE had a warning when tito died yugoslavia would be no more.What gives you the impression that it was some kind of brotherhood.??THink what the serbs tried to do is give the impression that were second class citizens for years.Our language wasn't even included in yuygoslavia as a language it was serbo croatian.So what brotherhood is that.The term south slav was yugoslavia a meaning less term jut like calling yourself fyrom.It doesn't mean anything.
You might say we were robbed of our identity whils't we were part of yugoslavia.We were simply another state of serbia.WE were being taken advantage of by the powers that be.On disintergration remember the yugobank fiasco and also we didn't get any share of the weapons serbia took them all.
It is not all macedonians that beleive they are slavs some were conditioned to beleive that.A lot of people don't regard the slavic migration theory as true.also people don't beleive that they are just slavs too.

George, if you have not noticed, I have basically stopped responding to your posts (I know the irony). Your comments, yet again, are misplaced.

[Momce Makedonce]

Came across this on Facebook and immediately thought of this thread LOL

https://www.facebook.com/events/470042196378145/?ref=23

[Constellation]

Came across this on Facebook and immediately thought of this thread LOL

https://www.facebook.com/events/470042196378145/?ref=23

It's not just that Facebook link. There are Slavic forums and Slavic websites that use Slavic as an ethnic title, and speak of a common brotherhood of Slavs, as if they were all one people.

I recall reading a forum about this issue sometime ago, and the forum posters (non-Macedonians) were lamenting why Macedonians no longer identify as Slavic, which they found offensive.

I felt like logging in and writing "Macedonians are not Slavs! We are Macedonians!"

[Momce Makedonce]

It's not just that Facebook link. There are Slavic forums and Slavic websites that use Slavic as an ethnic title, and speak of a common brotherhood of Slavs, as if they were all one people.

I recall reading a forum about this issue sometime ago, and the forum posters (non-Macedonians) were lamenting why Macedonians no longer identify as Slavic, which they found offensive.

I felt like logging in and writing "Macedonians are not Slavs! We are Macedonians!"

I know I have come across them as well. You should have told them we don`t identify as Slavs because the majority of Macedonians can see through the myth that everyone else seems to be captivated by.

[Constellation]

You should have told them we don`t identify as Slavs because the majority of Macedonians can see through the myth that everyone else seems to be captivated by.

Not possible. I am not a member of that forum, and I only found it via a Google search. I'm not even sure how dated the tread was.

Also, I would point out the following. There are Macedonians, even one Macedonian on this forum, Toska, who believes in a Slavic brotherhood. Most Macedonians who think in these terms are from an older generation, and long for the return of the Yugoslav days. They long for a new Tito.

Even some young Macedonians identify as Slav and believe in what I would call a Slavic brotherhood.

Some Macedonians identify as "Slavic Orthodox" more than Macedonian, and see a universal Slavic Orthodox brotherhood.

I know I will take heat for this but many Macedonians (in my experience) identify equally (at least) with Slavic as they do Macedonian. In their minds, they see ethnic titles such as "Macedonian", "Serbian", Croatian", and what not to be titles of division, and prefer Slavic or Slavic Orthodox.

I know a Macedonian man, no older than 40 now, who thinks in these terms. He traveled all over Macedonia and Serbia looking for a wife as if he was going to purchase a horse or a goat. He married a woman from Serbia he never met before. In his mind, titles such as "Serbia" and "Macedonia", are essentially meaningless; ultimately we are all Slavic Orthodox.

[Toska]

Not possible. I am not a member of that forum, and I only found it via a Google search. I'm not even sure how dated the tread was.

Also, I would point out the following. There are Macedonians, even one Macedonian on this forum, Toska, who believes in a Slavic brotherhood. Most Macedonians who think in these terms are from an older generation, and long for the return of the Yugoslav days. They long for a new Tito.

Even some young Macedonians identify as Slav and believe in what I would call a Slavic brotherhood.

Some Macedonians identify as "Slavic Orthodox" more than Macedonian, and see a universal Slavic Orthodox brotherhood.

I know I will take heat for this but many Macedonians (in my experience) identify equally (at least) with Slavic as they do Macedonian. In their minds, they see ethnic titles such as "Macedonian", "Serbian", Croatian", and what not to be titles of division, and prefer Slavic or Slavic Orthodox.

I know a Macedonian man, no older than 40 now, who thinks in these terms. He traveled all over Macedonia and Serbia looking for a wife as if he was going to purchase a horse or a goat. He married a woman from Serbia he never met before. In his mind, titles such as "Serbia" and "Macedonia", are essentially meaningless; ultimately we are all Slavic Orthodox.

never have i ever said anything about a slavic brotherhood, nor have i said there is a slavic race, you find me where i said it ?

[Constellation]

never have i ever said anything about a slavic brotherhood, nor have i said there is a slavic race, you find me where i said it ?

My apologies. I assumed, based on your statements about a common Slavic culture, you believed in a Slavic brotherhood.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Some Macedonians identify as "Slavic Orthodox" more than Macedonian, and see a universal Slavic Orthodox brotherhood.

How many Macedonian organisations, forums/websites or Facebook communities identify as "Slavic Orthodox" more than Macedonian? I am getting really tired of your endless misrepresentation of Macedonians based on either the views of an insignificant few or your own imagination. Answer the above question or cease your rubbish on this and other threads, or I will cease it for you.

[Toska]

My apologies. I assumed, based on your statements about a common Slavic culture, you believed in a Slavic brotherhood.

yeah a common slavic culture that stemmed from the Macedonian culture and was pushed north, The Language, The Alpahbet , The Religion all that creates part of the Macedonian culture that was spread by Macedonians to people that spoke a similar language, we couldnt push the bible to the germans or the romans because the language was unintelligible where as the the folk up north, if you could understand each other just 20% its alot easier to help spread the religion.

[Toska]

How many Macedonian organisations, forums/websites or Facebook communities identify as "Slavic Orthodox" more than Macedonian? I am getting really tired of your endless misrepresentation of Macedonians based on either the views of an insignificant few or your own imagination. Answer the above question or cease your rubbish on this and other threads, or I will cease it for you.

i have never met one Macedonian in my life that identifies as Slavic Orthodox, i still think constellation is a greek, i can smell the cheap shots he tries to push the idea of slavic this slavic that, he suddenly appeared when the slavic topics where going on and he only talks on the topics where Macedonians can be undermined, I CAN SMELL YOUR SOUVLAKIA from a mile away and i said from the beginning,

[Nikolaj]

Never in my life have I heard the term Slavic Orthodox and especially not from a Macedonian. Which planet are you guys from?