A sad realisation

[Gocka]

I have come to a point where I have finally admitted to myself that Fyromci are utterly hopeless. After countless hours spent researching and talking to people and trying to bring about some kind of change I have finally come to the conclusion that it is all pointless.

Let tell you why.

It really pretty simple, Macedonians have it good. I've always wanted to move to Macedonia and live the rest of my life there but I could never really figure out what was drawing me there. Well I get it now, I want to live there because I want the lifestyle that they have because it is in such stark contrast to the life I live now. Living in the USA is not as peachy as it may seem. The pressure to succeed is immense, you seem to never have enough money no matter how much you make. You are always on the go always in a rush, there is never enough time in a day and there is always something that needs to be done. There are severe consequences for minor mistakes, you have to pretty much work 24/7 to uphold an inflated lifestyle that you have no business having in the first place. Life in general just seems to fly by and you have no idea what you did or where the time went.

Then you have Macedonia. No ones ever in a rush, in fact you can barely get people to move at all. Success? What is that, no one succeeds really, so I don't have to either. Money, well that's great if you can get it but there always a way to get by without it. Work? Eh once in a while only if I really have to or else my life revolves around avoiding it as much as possible. Pressure? What pressure, no one expects anything of me, hell I dont expect anything of myself either, so no pressure. Consequences? Usually short lived and mostly avoidable.

I mean really, as much as it pisses me off, at the same time I envy them to a degree. I work my ass off day in day out, I cant even find time to take 10 minutes to type this up, and in the end, Ill will be marginally better off then from when I started. I think deep down most of us want that life. Hardly any work, almost no responsibilities, no commitments, not much expectations or stressing over them. Wouldn't we all want a piece of that at least once in a while?

Its not wonder no one is compelled to really take a stand, as it is now, life is pretty good for our mates in Macedonia. They are living the life. All summer, they are out and about, cafes, clubs beaches, mean while us idiots in the diaspora are working ourselves to the bone, stressing ourselves to death not only because of our own lives but because of what is going on in Macedonia. Sometimes it looks like we are actually the stupid ones, getting worked up about the state of affairs in Macedonia while Macedonians couldn't care less.

Sure one day it will all catch up to them, we all know that, but I guess like most people in the world, its never about the future but about right now, and right now they have no reasons to actually do or change anything.

Maybe 10-20 years from now, when the Shiptar grip is much stronger and the consequences of that kick in, maybe then as they start to see their easy care free lifestyle slip away, maybe then they will stand up and fight, other wise dont hold your breath.

You want to start a revolution in Macedonia? Starting screwing with their way of life, and then you will see the claws come out.

[makedonche]

Gocka
The pain is compulsory....the misery is optional!

[Phoenix]

Gocka, if you can't handle the revolutions of the hamster wheel just get off, buddy.

The "fyromians" aren't responsible for your own greedy lifestyle, nor should you demand that they be as greedy as you.

Life is full of choices, you've made yours, the "fyromians" have made theirs.

[EgejskaMakedonia]

I have come to a point where I have finally admitted to myself that Fyromci are utterly hopeless. After countless hours spent researching and talking to people and trying to bring about some kind of change I have finally come to the conclusion that it is all pointless.

Let tell you why.

It really pretty simple, Macedonians have it good. I've always wanted to move to Macedonia and live the rest of my life there but I could never really figure out what was drawing me there. Well I get it now, I want to live there because I want the lifestyle that they have because it is in such stark contrast to the life I live now. Living in the USA is not as peachy as it may seem. The pressure to succeed is immense, you seem to never have enough money no matter how much you make. You are always on the go always in a rush, there is never enough time in a day and there is always something that needs to be done. There are severe consequences for minor mistakes, you have to pretty much work 24/7 to uphold an inflated lifestyle that you have no business having in the first place. Life in general just seems to fly by and you have no idea what you did or where the time went.

Then you have Macedonia. No ones ever in a rush, in fact you can barely get people to move at all. Success? What is that, no one succeeds really, so I don't have to either. Money, well that's great if you can get it but there always a way to get by without it. Work? Eh once in a while only if I really have to or else my life revolves around avoiding it as much as possible. Pressure? What pressure, no one expects anything of me, hell I dont expect anything of myself either, so no pressure. Consequences? Usually short lived and mostly avoidable.

I mean really, as much as it pisses me off, at the same time I envy them to a degree. I work my ass off day in day out, I cant even find time to take 10 minutes to type this up, and in the end, Ill will be marginally better off then from when I started. I think deep down most of us want that life. Hardly any work, almost no responsibilities, no commitments, not much expectations or stressing over them. Wouldn't we all want a piece of that at least once in a while?

Its not wonder no one is compelled to really take a stand, as it is now, life is pretty good for our mates in Macedonia. They are living the life. All summer, they are out and about, cafes, clubs beaches, mean while us idiots in the diaspora are working ourselves to the bone, stressing ourselves to death not only because of our own lives but because of what is going on in Macedonia. Sometimes it looks like we are actually the stupid ones, getting worked up about the state of affairs in Macedonia while Macedonians couldn't care less.

Sure one day it will all catch up to them, we all know that, but I guess like most people in the world, its never about the future but about right now, and right now they have no reasons to actually do or change anything.

Maybe 10-20 years from now, when the Shiptar grip is much stronger and the consequences of that kick in, maybe then as they start to see their easy care free lifestyle slip away, maybe then they will stand up and fight, other wise dont hold your breath.

You want to start a revolution in Macedonia? Starting screwing with their way of life, and then you will see the claws come out.

I disagree. Sure, if you plan to move back to Macedonia and retire it may be an ideal lifestyle, but trying to sustain a relaxed lifestyle during one's working years would be difficult. Many seem to be under the illusion that it's always better somewhere else. Fact is, you aren't going to find a more prosperous lifestyle other than a handful of countries, including the US and Australia. It's what you make of it that shapes the pace and enjoyment of your life. Not everyone in the US would feel overworked or rushed. Similarly, not everyone in Macedonia lives the laid back life you described. There is always a trade-off between work and leisure, with time being the limiting factor. You need to find a balance. If you're not happy with the current ratio, then perhaps you need to re-asses your employment outlook. Moving to Macedonia won't fix your problems and give you the relaxed life you've always wanted. The unemployment rate in Macedonia is massive, in particular amongst the youth. We may think that landing a job in Australia or the US is difficult, but it still beats working for scraps in what is a fairly poor job market in Macedonia.

We take our lifestyle in the US/AUS for granted. Yes, the pressure can be overwhelming, but we are given enormous flexibility in what we can do in life. If you live in a major city in Australia, there are a million and one things to see and do on a given weekend day/night. Like I said earlier, it's the choices you make that put you in this position. Some people get a kick out of the 'rushed' lifestyle and enjoy the pressure, but it isn't for everyone. Just be thankful that your job is not likely hanging on your political allegiance, as many do in Macedonia.

I admit, the selo life is very relaxing. If you were planning to retire, this may be the lifestyle you're after. But you could just as easily move to the US or Aussie countryside, which would have a similar atmosphere. On the other hand, if you are planning to work and live the selo lifestyle, then it's not easy. There's a reason why most of the younger generation moved from the villages to the city. Some have now returned to live with their family in the selo, in particular in Greece where the economy and job market has collapsed.

I implore you to re-think your stance before you seriously believe that those in Macedonia are better off than many of us in the diaspora. If any of us were to offer someone in Macedonia a complete lifestyle switch, they would take it up in a heartbeat.

They are far from 'living the life.'

[George S.]

I never thought people would want to aspire to the fyromian way .It doesn't seem to nee much to succeed.But is that what we want??I doubt if many want this sort of life.You can never have a revolution with this sort of life.As phoenix pointed out the fyromians have made their choice. it's clear cut what they want.& Gocka you should decide when to get off the hamster wheel.

[vicsinad]

I think everyone who responded generally missed the point of Gocka's post and misinterpreted why he compared his lifestyle in the US to Macedonians' lifestyle in Macedonia. Or they just want to pick on a certain aspect of his post without analyzing it in context.

His main point is found in the first sentence of the first paragraph (where we are taught from elementary school to put our main point). His main point is then reiterated in the last line of his post, which includes a possible suggestion on how to change the usefulness of Macedonians in Macedonia (although it's not very specific in details).

It seems like most responders took this as a post about Gocka complaining about his current life. While certainly he isn't enthusiastic about the truth behind the "American Dream," I think his description of the average American life serves the purpose of leading up to his point. Though I think his point could have been more clear had he explained more about "how" he thinks Macedonians in Macedonia could be made more useful.

[Risto the Great]

Not so different in Australia Gocka.
If you're trying to provide for your kids, how to weigh up the good father vs the good provider dilemma. No such problems in Macedonia for a significant majority. Though I am sure many would disagree (some for good reason).

But it is safe to say the RoMacedonians really don't want change in a desperate fashion. I don't think anyone doubts that.

[Risto the Great]

I implore you to re-think your stance before you seriously believe that those in Macedonia are better off than many of us in the diaspora. If any of us were to offer someone in Macedonia a complete lifestyle switch, they would take it up in a heartbeat.

They are far from 'living the life.'

You need to talk to some recent immigrants. They would return in a flash. But think they are doing their children a favour and so remain. But this civilised world is not for them if they are being honest with themselves. And they aren't. They have to believe they enjoy it here.

[George S.]

THis is the crux of gocka's argument "They are living the life. All summer, they are out and about, cafes, clubs beaches, mean while us idiots in the diaspora are working ourselves to the bone, stressing ourselves to death not only because of our own lives but because of what is going on in Macedonia. Sometimes it looks like we are actually the stupid ones, getting worked up about the state of affairs in Macedonia while Macedonians couldn't care less."So in essence the types that are still living in macedonia couldn't care one hilt about macedonia's plight or anything elses .THey are more or less in a twilight zone of living it up.I have heard how the people of rom allways say you people in the diaspora know how to make money pecalbari but you don't know how to spend it.You all come to rom you are so tight fisted that you only spend it on pleskavici.& kevapi.Please compare the two scenarios there & os.In os there are far more opportunities.In rom there's hardly any with 30% unemployment..Think about it why it appeals so much to go to the diaspora.

[Phoenix]

I think everyone who responded generally missed the point of Gocka's post and misinterpreted why he compared his lifestyle in the US to Macedonians' lifestyle in Macedonia. Or they just want to pick on a certain aspect of his post without analyzing it in context.

His main point is found in the first sentence of the first paragraph (where we are taught from elementary school to put our main point). His main point is then reiterated in the last line of his post, which includes a possible suggestion on how to change the usefulness of Macedonians in Macedonia (although it's not very specific in details).

It seems like most responders took this as a post about Gocka complaining about his current life. While certainly he isn't enthusiastic about the truth behind the "American Dream," I think his description of the average American life serves the purpose of leading up to his point. Though I think his point could have been more clear had he explained more about "how" he thinks Macedonians in Macedonia could be made more useful.

Vic, thanks for pointing out that Gocka's point didn't point everyone in the right direction, or that maybe he missed the point along with everyone else.

The point being, don't point fingers at everyone else if you believe that the point was lost on all except you.
The interesting thing about points, although they can be quite sharp or tapering to add essence to a discussion, a point is also a 3D location in space that can be the building block or the termination of an idea.

Do you get my point, if not the discussion is truly pointless.

[Stojacanec]

I think your making a too general statement about the evil "fyromians" Gocka so I have to disagree with you.

In Macedonia there is less opportunities to find work and grow personal wealth etc compared to Aust/USA. Macedonians would give anything to have the opportunity to improve their econcomic situations like we have in the dispora.

I only need to look at the Macedonian immigrants of late. Here in the diaspora they are hard workers and have (I guess) enjoyed some success. Sure there are some lazy ones but which society doesn't have them?

[makedonche]

Vic, thanks for pointing out that Gocka's point didn't point everyone in the right direction, or that maybe he missed the point along with everyone else.

The point being, don't point fingers at everyone else if you believe that the point was lost on all except you.
The interesting thing about points, although they can be quite sharp or tapering to add essence to a discussion, a point is also a 3D location in space that can be the building block or the termination of an idea.

Do you get my point, if not the discussion is truly pointless.

Phoenix
I think you missed Vic's point, he was making a point about points which other people are making that have been lost in interpretation by other people making a point about his points, dop you get my point?

[Phoenix]

Phoenix
I think you missed Vic's point, he was making a point about points which other people are making that have been lost in interpretation by other people making a point about his points, dop you get my point?

Point taken.

[Gocka]

I'm not sure if the replies are a case of reading too much into something or not reading close enough, I think the hint of irony was totally missed and I believe some of the reactions exposed possibly the problem with the diaspora as well.

I think Vic got the closest to understanding, but for the rest on which my point was lost.

I wasn't complaining, I was simply giving a comparison between lifestyles and mentalities between the two groups of Macedonians, and suggesting that in the end one of us, either the diaspora, or the republic is totally crazy.

I live the life that I choose to live, as do Macedonians in the republic, my point was that they willingly choose to live and think the way they do. I dont want that lifestyle, it is short lived and eventually the consequences of that lifestyle will far out weight the short term benefit. Maybe many of you, mainly phoenix, need to take off the judgmental hats and see that my post was light hearted, poking fun at the current predicament.

Most of us in the diaspora, work hard, make tough choices, take on a lot of personal responsibility and responsibility for our families, and somehow find time and will power to think about and worry about the Macedonian cause. Yet here you have most Macedonians in the republic, with much more free time, much less to worry about, and yet they cant be bothered to think about the Macedonian cause, why? Because they like the life that they live, you all know it. We all have family and friends there who are perfect examples of what I am talking about. so why are so many of you playing dumb like you dont know what I'm talking about?

Many of us assume that they are just blind, or dumb or both, the sad truth that I was hinting at is that they are not as dumb and not as blind as we think. They know what is going on, they see the albanization and will admit that it is happening, they know that the name negotiations are wrong, they know everything, they just dont care.

If any of you think that most Macedonians would want to trade lives with you than you are over valuing the lives that you think you live. I have tried employing Macedonians, I have seen the recent immigrants first hand, they dont want your lifestyle, they want your money, but they dont want to put in the work that you do to get it. Most recent immigrants here in the USA cant get back home fast enough. I think many of you are out of touch with the reality that is Macedonia today. Its not as bad as it was back in the 70's and 80's most people have it pretty easy, they dont have much but they have it easy, and they want it to stay that way.

Phoenix, Greedy lifestyle? How do you know that my lifestyle is greedy? I didn't know working hard = greed. Do you know what greed means?

[EgejskaMakedonia]

You need to talk to some recent immigrants. They would return in a flash. But think they are doing their children a favour and so remain. But this civilised world is not for them if they are being honest with themselves. And they aren't. They have to believe they enjoy it here.

I understand this and it's true. Often when I show my baba new videos from the selo she explains how nice it was to live there and that she misses it. But given the opportunities Australia has provided them and their family, I don't think they'd reconsider if they were given the chance to do it all over again.