Dostoinstvo

[Vangelovski]

I want to open this thread to start analysing Dostoinstvo. At first they looked very promising. Now they look confused at best. Here is the latest from Angelov who has announced that he may leave he new found friends (Branko, Ljubco etc) and go it alone at the next election:

http://www.mkd.mk/makedonija/politik...e-izbori-odime

[Gocka]

I have been following them for a while. At times they look promising at times they look the same old lot as the rest of them and at times they look like they don't know who they are.

The true test of Angelov's character will be if he ever gets a shot at power, then we will learn everything, otherwise until they come to power, a lot of what they do and say and who they associate with is just politics, not everything but a lot.

You cant always just come out of gate swinging, most of the time people just aren't ready, I think Macedonia as a whole isn't ready for a real patriot. If one were to come along I think he would go to waist in the current climate.

That being said, I have several doubts about whether Angelov is the real deal. Time will tell, it always does.

[Volk]

I have been following them for a while. At times they look promising at times they look the same old lot as the rest of them and at times they look like they don't know who they are.

The true test of Angelov's character will be if he ever gets a shot at power, then we will learn everything, otherwise until they come to power, a lot of what they do and say and who they associate with is just politics, not everything but a lot.

You cant always just come out of gate swinging, most of the time people just aren't ready, I think Macedonia as a whole isn't ready for a real patriot. If one were to come along I think he would go to waist in the current climate.

That being said, I have several doubts about whether Angelov is the real deal. Time will tell, it always does.

Gocka, your contradicting yourself all over the place here..

Angelov was head of the Tigri, he lead the assault in Arachinovo. He faced RPG round and heavy machine gun fire. He was shot at least once which he will never physically recover from. When he woke in hospital, he immediately returned to the front lines.

He is a a new generation of politicians who is sincere to the core, I wish the world had more of people like him.

Dostoinstvo is a very small political party (50 members) and their immediate aim was to secure the rights of the Braniteli whilst trying to block the movement to legitimize the UCK. The army in now in the hands of enemies of the state and HE is the only person in the country to speak up about it.

His stance on the name issue: immediate withdrawal from the negotiations.

No former UCK fighters and ministers of Army, Interior or Justice. And the reversal of the territorial division which has now seen albanian mayors, 20m albanian flag poles and the silent ethnic cleansing of Macedonians to create 'clean' albanian territories.

He is the only person in the country who has the balls to raise these issues and is prepared to take action on them.

[George S.]

real glad to see real patriots like vangelov.We need more people like him.I would rather trust vangelov than someone else.

[Gocka]

Gocka, your contradicting yourself all over the place here..

Angelov was head of the Tigri, he lead the assault in Arachinovo. He faced RPG round and heavy machine gun fire. He was shot at least once which he will never physically recover from. When he woke in hospital, he immediately returned to the front lines.

He is a a new generation of politicians who is sincere to the core, I wish the world had more of people like him.

Dostoinstvo is a very small political party (50 members) and their immediate aim was to secure the rights of the Braniteli whilst trying to block the movement to legitimize the UCK. The army in now in the hands of enemies of the state and HE is the only person in the country to speak up about it.

His stance on the name issue: immediate withdrawal from the negotiations.

No former UCK fighters and ministers of Army, Interior or Justice. And the reversal of the territorial division which has now seen albanian mayors, 20m albanian flag poles and the silent ethnic cleansing of Macedonians to create 'clean' albanian territories.

He is the only person in the country who has the balls to raise these issues and is prepared to take action on them.

I did, but it was on purpose, because that is how I feel about Angelov, Very unsure about him, and his associations are questionable at best and treacherous at worst. The only reason I would even give him the slightest chance is because of his battle credentials.

Gruevski talked up a storm too before he came to power, we all know how that turned out don't we?

[DedoAleko]

Well slap my forehead and call me stupid, but isn't stojanco the same guy who used to hang out with crvenkovski, ljuBco, tito petkovski?

[Volk]

I did, but it was on purpose, because that is how I feel about Angelov, Very unsure about him, and his associations are questionable at best and treacherous at worst. The only reason I would even give him the slightest chance is because of his battle credentials.

Gruevski talked up a storm too before he came to power, we all know how that turned out don't we?

Pointless comparison... Stojance has put his life on the line and bled for the country.

He is an inexperienced politician which in my eyes explains some of his mistakes. In an interview he did last night, he said Dostoinstvo would most likely leave the coalition with SDS for ideological reasons and would not align themselves with other parties also. He said he cannot align with parties that support a name change or equate the defenders of 2001 with the aggressors.

VMRO offered him a lot of money before the last election to join them and he refused. That is a man of conviction and that is what is lacking in the world, little own Macedonia.

[Gocka]

Pointless comparison... Stojance has put his life on the line and bled for the country.

He is an inexperienced politician which in my eyes explains some of his mistakes. In an interview he did last night, he said Dostoinstvo would most likely leave the coalition with SDS for ideological reasons and would not align themselves with other parties also. He said he cannot align with parties that support a name change or equate the defenders of 2001 with the aggressors.

VMRO offered him a lot of money before the last election to join them and he refused. That is a man of conviction and that is what is lacking in the world, little own Macedonia.

Pointless? I think not. Talk is cheap until you actually have to do what you say you are going to do. Once money and power are at his feet who says he will not just bend over backwards like the rest of them?

No doubt his past deeds are commendable, patriotic and inspiring, but again that alone does not mean he will be a good leader and do what is needed. So I don't see your issue with me simply saying that the truth will be revealed if he were to come to power.

Don't take this the wrong way, but your acting a bit sheepish. Slow down, analyze things a little more, be optimistic about him if you wish but don't draw all the conclusions without even have half of the right reasons for those conclusions.

Thus far he has at least proven that he is not a coward and is not afraid to fight but as far as his political aspirations I'm not sure even he knows what he wants yet, so how could you?

[Vangelovski]

Gocka,

Don't worry about Volk. He's the village idiot around here. Has been for years. He's also usually a decade behind in the news.

One thing that concerns me, in addition to his hasty alliance with Crvenkovski and Georgievski, is his pre-election change of the Dostoinstvo coat of arms. He removed the sonce and replaced it with some symbol that the ancient Macedonians supposedly used. He also used the same disingenious arguments as those who support the ventilator to justify it.

Another key issue that someone pointed out to me recently is this - Angelov has never called for the Framework Agreement to be recinded. In fact, recent statements imply that he is willing to work within the FA rather than change it.

I'm not entirely sure how much Angelov is behind it and how much his advisors are responsible for this line of thinking. I think its more his advisors, but regardless, its not a good path for Dostoinstvo. If they feel they need to hold these lines to be accepted politically, then it may be best that they deregister as a political party and continue (on a principled basis) as a non-government organisation.

[Volk]

Pointless? I think not. Talk is cheap until you actually have to do what you say you are going to do. Once money and power are at his feet who says he will not just bend over backwards like the rest of them?

No doubt his past deeds are commendable, patriotic and inspiring, but again that alone does not mean he will be a good leader and do what is needed. So I don't see your issue with me simply saying that the truth will be revealed if he were to come to power.

Don't take this the wrong way, but your acting a bit sheepish. Slow down, analyze things a little more, be optimistic about him if you wish but don't draw all the conclusions without even have half of the right reasons for those conclusions.

Thus far he has at least proven that he is not a coward and is not afraid to fight but as far as his political aspirations I'm not sure even he knows what he wants yet, so how could you?

I never called on him to be Prime Minister, or even if he is capable of that. Facts are he has bled for the country and is the only political voice that is speaking up against the albanianization of Macedonia aka greater albania.

He has put aside his personal interests to defend the Macedonian nation and wake people up. If that is not commendable I am unaware what is. He could have easily joined VMRO, paid a ton of money (like every single 'nationalistic' party out there. You do the math.

As far as political aspirations, Dostoinstvo was created to defend the defenders rights and stand up to albanian expansionism. Are you awake Macedonia does not have an army structure that can defend the nation right now? That the albanians can take half of the military hardware and destroy the rest tomorrow.. There is only one person who has spoken up about this.

[Volk]

Gocka,

Don't worry about Volk. He's the village idiot around here. Has been for years. He's also usually a decade behind in the news.

One thing that concerns me, in addition to his hasty alliance with Crvenkovski and Georgievski, is his pre-election change of the Dostoinstvo coat of arms. He removed the sonce and replaced it with some symbol that the ancient Macedonians supposedly used. He also used the same disingenious arguments as those who support the ventilator to justify it.

Cigan, go create more fake accounts and support your arguments with them. Then tell people you do not work in a circus.

As far as I am aware, Dostoinstvo removed the sonce from their coat of arms because the electoral commission would not approve it otherwise.

The symbol it was replaced with is the symbol of eternity which was widely used on Ancient Macedonian shields. Maybe familiarise yourself with Macedonian symbols before looking like an idiot.

[Vangelovski]

Cigan, go create more fake accounts and support your arguments with them. Then tell people you do not work in a circus.

As far as I am aware, Dostoinstvo removed the sonce from their coat of arms because the electoral commission would not approve it otherwise.

The symbol it was replaced with is the symbol of eternity which was widely used on Ancient Macedonian shields. Maybe familiarise yourself with Macedonian symbols before looking like an idiot.

Volk, you've been making these idiotic accusations about fake accounts for years now. Which fake accounts am I supposedly using? Back up your claims or I'll start posting some stuff about you that I can back up.

The electoral commission has nothing to do with party symbols and not even Dostoinstvo ever claimed that was the case.

Show me an example of this symbol of eternity used by ancient Macedonians on their shields. But even if it was used by the ancient Macedonians, that is beside the point - the point is that they backed down on the sonce because they "felt" it was too controversial.

[Volk]

Volk, you've been making these idiotic accusations about fake accounts for years now. Which fake accounts am I supposedly using? Back up your claims or I'll start posting some stuff about you that I can back up.

The electoral commission has nothing to do with party symbols and not even Dostoinstvo ever claimed that was the case.

Show me an example of this symbol of eternity used by ancient Macedonians on their shields. But even if it was used by the ancient Macedonians, that is beside the point - the point is that they backed down on the sonce because they "felt" it was too controversial.

Do a search since your memory is not so good.

I was under the impression that the electoral commission forced them to the change, however I could be wrong. Do you have any source that they simply felt it was to controversial?

[Vangelovski]

Do a search since your memory is not so good.

I was under the impression that the electoral commission forced them to the change, however I could be wrong. Do you have any source that they simply felt it was to controversial?

I know which shields you are referring to - that symbol and variations of it can be found all over the ancient world. That exact same symbol is a national symbol of Georgia and is on its passports. They are not specific to Macedonia.

The electoral commission cannot do anything. I will look for the article when I get a chance, but there is no other reason than capitulation for changing the sonce, which they had for over a decade to some obscure symbol of eternity.

[lavce pelagonski]

Volk its true this is from a sports site from a guy names "Georgian"

a interesting thing to know is that the georgian team is named the lelos abroud in georgia we call them the ''borjgalosnebi'' what refers too the borjgali Image
what is an annicient georgian symbol for the sun.
in english it can be transleted as the ''crusaders''

the yought team of georgia is called: ''patara borjgalosnebi'' meaning little crusaders



mestre

So the georgian logo is the sun itself!


Georgian
yes it is a pre christian simbole that is olso used on the georgian pasport


mestre

Thanks Georgian, interesting lesson!


FLIDTA RISXVA

borghal-osnebi = borghali bearers

borghali = rotating cross, symbolising eternity of life

that's from my site



the site http://www.fira-aer-rugby.com/forum2...hp?f=2&p=34238