Macedonian traditions in the diaspora

[Bij]

Hi guys,

I have an upcoming wedding in the summer of 2014 where I'm going to be a deverica. This is all very exciting, but I'm not exactly sure what the traditions and responsibilities of the deverstvo are.

I have tried googling and have scraped bits and pieces from different parts of the web, and have spoken to people from various parts of Macedonia who have shared their tradition and culture with me, but it made me realise we don't have one source of all different traditions to go to that I have come across.

Has anyone seen a website, or a book that has all the different traditions by celebration and Macedonian geographical region?

Alternatively, would you be willing to share your customs and traditions on here so we could compile a wiki style info centre?

An example would be, on the morning of a wedding the kum (nunko) and dever attend the grooms house, where they help shave the groom. Traditionally this was done as the groom was too nervous to shave himself. In modern culture, it is largely an exagerated tradition whereby outlandish objects are used to shave the groom. Most modern weddings will use an axe, some other objects used are: chainsaws, machetes, garden hoes, etc.

After the groom is shaved, two young unmarried females hold a towel stretched out in front of the groom, so that all guests can pass by the groom, wish him best of luck and leave cash in the towel. the groom then dances with the towel full of money.

[Soldier of Macedon]

An example would be, on the morning of a wedding the kum (nunko) and dever attend the grooms house, where they help shave the groom. Traditionally this was done as the groom was too nervous to shave himself. In modern culture, it is largely an exagerated tradition whereby outlandish objects are used to shave the groom. Most modern weddings will use an axe, some other objects used are: chainsaws, machetes, garden hoes, etc.

It's like a preparation ritual. The groom has his feet washed first, then his face is rubbed with onion, then he is shaved with an axe - which is the only object I have seen used.

[Bij]

We must be more adventurous in Sydney :-) I've seen people come out with every object of the garden shed (shears, motika, lopata, etc) to shave the groom.

I am told that not everyone in Macedonia does the mesenje of the svajka. Is this true, or have people just stopped doing it over time? Does anyone know the significance of this?

[Risto the Great]

Credits got to Lavce

[George S.]

The dever buy's the nevesta her shoes & does an adjustment to fitting them on the bride
by putting notes under her feet in her shoes.He keeps asking if the fit is ok.If not more notes are slipped in.Then the bride gets taken to the church for the wedding service to be given to the groom.The Dever has a paurce slung over his shoulder.Also some tie a black band around their left arm.
The dever gives the groom a "shave" earlier in the piece at home.Eg pretend to shave with an axe,tomahawk etc & then whil'st that is happening the little deverce nominated)
gets to wash the grooms feet in a legen of water & soap.Then everyone put's money in a towel.
I have seen other rituals where the groom gets to eat fried eggs with a huge spoon all funny hah ha.

[lavce pelagonski]

Bij please you have to mesi the svajka. It has come apparent that some svaki for some stupid reason dont wont to do this. The significance of this tradition is that a sweet cake with lollies on top is backed at both the bride and grooms side. At the wedding towards the end both svaki come together and try to break the biggest pieces of both cakes, whoever has the biggest pieces is supposed to be the sweetest and kindest svajka of the two. Clearly those that dont wont to do it are sour.

[lavce pelagonski]

You must have a bjraktar, a person to hold the flag, this flag is normally given by the church or you can use the Makedonsko sonce. Some even use the ventilator (I advise against doing this). My brother is getting married so I will have heaps of info for you shortly.

[Soldier of Macedon]

We must be more adventurous in Sydney :-) I've seen people come out with every object of the garden shed (shears, motika, lopata, etc) to shave the groom.

To be honest, some of the items you've mentioned sound so ridiculous it somewhat makes a mockery of the custom. That's my opinion, but then I am a traditionalist.

[George S.]

Definitely people have changed the customs to suit themselves.They have gone beyond the pail.People are laughing at the things being done & sense of seriousness has been devalued.Imagine being shaved with a spade etc etc.Or with the motika.

[Trajkovski]

You must have a bjraktar, a person to hold the flag, this flag is normally given by the church or you can use the Makedonsko sonce. Some even use the ventilator (I advise against doing this). My brother is getting married so I will have heaps of info for you shortly.

I think this is a Serbian custom which has been borrowed by some areas

[lavce pelagonski]

I think this is a Serbian custom which has been borrowed by some areas

Haha your funny

[George S.]

how about flowers &an aple stuck to the bayrak.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I think this is a Serbian custom which has been borrowed by some areas

That's rubbish.

[Bij]

The dever buy's the nevesta her shoes & does an adjustment to fitting them on the bride
by putting notes under her feet in her shoes.He keeps asking if the fit is ok.If not more notes are slipped in.Then the bride gets taken to the church for the wedding service to be given to the groom.The Dever has a paurce slung over his shoulder.Also some tie a black band around their left arm.
The dever gives the groom a "shave" earlier in the piece at home.Eg pretend to shave with an axe,tomahawk etc & then whil'st that is happening the little deverce nominated)
gets to wash the grooms feet in a legen of water & soap.Then everyone put's money in a towel.
I have seen other rituals where the groom gets to eat fried eggs with a huge spoon all funny hah ha.

Doesn't the dever 'buy' the bride from her male relatives first? The bride is usually locked away in a room when the dever shows up, offers funds and has a bit of push and shove with the girls family.

Also, the shoe thing, money is put in to the shoes three times, but the shoes are actually bought by the brides father in law to be? the first money is a coin, the second and third are notes. the bride tries the shoes on and then turns them back around to the dever each time she returns the shoes.

Does anyone know anything about darvanje? Why do we do it? What do we give if we are the kum/dever? What do we receive if we're a guest?

[Bij]

To be honest, some of the items you've mentioned sound so ridiculous it somewhat makes a mockery of the custom. That's my opinion, but then I am a traditionalist.

and an axe isn't ridiculous?