Which, of the following organizations is the most trustworthy?

[Tomche Makedonche]

Chiche

Stario, although I do regret interrupting you whilst you’re probably in the midst of concocting another one of your grand, and no doubt insulting, schemes of trying to “ruffle some feathers”, just thought it would be pertinent to bring to your attention that it appears that vicsinad has indirectly refuted your presumptuous theory regarding his ethnic background:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2761&page=133

So without any further delay, if you please, that demonstration of how the progressive Macedonian unifies us all regardless of our views...

[George S.]

Chiche we don't hate people because of who they are but WHAT they do & say.If you look at what people are calling themelves as macedonian & what they have said & done your hair would stand on end.If you are a macedonian turn over a new leaf,a breath of fresh air.
Not someone who sells us short & themselves.You know what i mean.I don't mean you per se.So as you see it's mainly attitude & thinking & action is what is preventing us from grasping what other western democratic countries take for granted.
Unity doesn't solve everything unless it's genuine & from the heart.This is where the MTO & the macedonian cause comes into it.Unless we change our thoughts & actions we are going to keep doing what we allways do.But think again life could be a turn for the better that is a desire for a real unity of our people that is the best possible outcome.

[Chiche]

Thank you all for educating me, I am a better person for it. I will try hard to conform, spolati bre brayka, nema da se derpam od sega.

[Vangelovski]

Thank you all for educating me, I am a better person for it. I will try hard to conform, spolati bre brayka, nema da se derpam od sega.

Chiche, you came in offering to show us how to "unite" with those that have completely opposing views. Now demonstrate it with Vicsinad. I can confirm that he is a Macedonian. Show us how its done.

[Chiche]

That is easy Vangelovski, I made an assumption, it appears it may be wrong. The difference with me and you, is I do not abuse or label him, and before you say it an assumption is not a label. I am prepared to listen to his, what may be considered anti Macedonian dribble and not call him abusive names. This in turn should allow us to both learn and see the 'Truth', so united we may become.

[Vangelovski]

That is easy Vangelovski, I made an assumption, it appears it may be wrong. The difference with me and you, is I do not abuse or label him, and before you say it an assumption is not a label. I am prepared to listen to his, what may be considered anti Macedonian dribble and not call him abusive names. This in turn should allow us to both learn and see the 'Truth', so united we may become.

Ok, don't just talk about it, go ahead. Listen to his dribble, learn from him and lets see if either of you are able to "unite". It will be interesting to see what exactly you will "unite" over.

[Tomche Makedonche]

Stario, forgive me but I’m not understanding why you continue to be rather unusually reluctant to demonstrate what it is that you seem to want to promote to the rest of us. It is admittedly confusing, as oddly enough, this stance your taking is starting to give the impression that, contrary to previous statements, you now don’t actually disagree with vicsinad’s point of view at all?, perhaps we should do likewise and “assume” these elusive answers of yours are already hidden in the detail?

I am prepared to listen to his, what may be considered anti Macedonian dribble and not call him abusive names.

Quite noble and an admirable trait Stario, however what I do find intriguing here is the use of the word “may”...

This in turn should allow us to both learn and see the 'Truth', so united we may become.

Now what “truth” did you “learn and see” to “unite” you with vicsinad after simply just listening to his “what may be considered anti Macedonian dribble”?, because I seem to have missed that factor completely, but then again, we’re only just a bunch of “divisive labelling lads” here aren’t we. So Stario, please extend us the courtesy of explaining this part to us.

[United MKD]

lol Tomche you're a crack up, everytime I see 'Stario' in your sentence referring to chiche I laugh.

[George S.]

If we settle our personal differences,the uniting factor should be the fact that we are macedonian & that we share the same goals as enshried in the cause.I know it's not easy
& it's hard for people to admit to themselves that they were wrong.But the uniting factor will be that people have turned over a new leaf.A born again macedonian a reborn macedonian.I would be most happy to see this.What i'm seeing is the negative things that disunite us,& divide us,peoples attitudes & thoughts are completely at odds with one another.There is a saying if the tough gets going the tough gets harder.The way to get ahead is to move in a positive manner together united as one..The attacking personally of people is not going to work more so if it's admin.There is a saying you are either for us or agains't us.It is pleasing to see that some people are trying to make a change for the better.
What seperates us from the different struggles around the world is that with all that terrorism,etc our cause is a just cause.THink about it it surely is one that we should give it all wev'e got.If any country that desrves to get the taste of freedom & i do mean real freedom,not only from physical oppression,but the slave mindset is macedonia.There is a saying macedonia is a land that time forgot.Why because with the passing time it has not got better only worse.So it makes it more pertinent to have a unitited struggle to stop all yhis petty bickering about our differences.Beleive me that there is nothing better to see the sight of a new born macedonian with all the right attributes in the right place.There is a saying we could argue till the cows come home arguing especially for point scoring where is that going to get us nowhere..
The good thing at the mto is that we are begining to see what it is about the real freedom of macedonia.We want macedonians to be real proud of themselves & to be united for a just cause & it's a real blessing in disguise.If you are genuine in all this is that you will find the mto as the genuine thing.So embrace it & accept it as we grow to accept you.But you must take active steps & we will help & nurture you along the way.

[Risto the Great]

If we settle our personal differences,the uniting factor should be the fact that we are macedonian & that we share the same goals as enshried in the cause

George, you are correct. But you assume everyone wants the same goals. This is simply not the case. Some would prostitute their mothers for personal gain.

Look at that idiot supposedly representing the Australian Diaspora in DPmNE at the moment. A total failure who has accepted personal gain over what is right. He has accepted the amnesty of the ethnic Albanians without even a whimper.

Others less prominent have done far worse too.

[Risto the Great]

That is easy Vangelovski, I made an assumption, it appears it may be wrong. The difference with me and you, is I do not abuse or label him, and before you say it an assumption is not a label. I am prepared to listen to his, what may be considered anti Macedonian dribble and not call him abusive names. This in turn should allow us to both learn and see the 'Truth', so united we may become.

Chiche, you actually assumed he was Albanians based on his leanings. I knew he was Macedonian so I assumed he must be anti-Macedonian because of those same leanings. We both see him the same way. Is calling him an Albanian any nicer than what I did?

Either way, I see no reason why Macedonians should not be scrutinised about their belief systems. We have been let down too many times in the past. We also can still learn about ourselves when we question others.

If I am prepared to fight someone on an issue, it is clearly important to me. If it is important to me, I will have thought about it a great deal. People who fight without having invested in a thought process about the issue are a waste of time to me. I hope you can see that.

[VMRO]

George, you are correct. But you assume everyone wants the same goals. This is simply not the case. Some would prostitute their mothers for personal gain.

Look at that idiot supposedly representing the Australian Diaspora in DPmNE at the moment. A total failure who has accepted personal gain over what is right. He has accepted the amnesty of the ethnic Albanians without even a whimper.

Others less prominent have done far worse too.

He even managed to find his wife a top job up there from what i hear.

Let's not also forget that once Dodo-vski was elected, (Dodevski's numko/dever - one of the two) now had vrski and was provided an advisory position in Gruevski's government.

Za stramota.

[Makedonska_Kafana]

I, want to just say it sickens me to no end when I see a social club like the UMD say we're an "NGO" and their actions are "PRO GOVERNMENTS" starting with the USA.

UMD, ARE FULL OF LINA!!

[Chiche]

"The Macedonian Truth Organisation calls on God in Heaven to protect, bless and guide the endeavour it is committing to undertake, and that is to work towards:"

Please explain why the MTO is mixing Religion with the Macedonian Cause. Can a person who is not religious be ACCEPTED by the MTO?
Would an Atheist or an Agnostic want to be part of an organization that has a religious flavour.

Remember to be a "GREEK" one must be a Christian, does one need to be a Christian to be a Macedonian????

[Tomche Makedonche]

"The Macedonian Truth Organisation calls on God in Heaven to protect, bless and guide the endeavour it is committing to undertake, and that is to work towards:"

Please explain why the MTO is mixing Religion with the Macedonian Cause. Can a person who is not religious be ACCEPTED by the MTO?
Would an Atheist or an Agnostic want to be part of an organization that has a religious flavour.

Remember to be a "GREEK" one must be a Christian, does one need to be a Christian to be a Macedonian????

Stario, when people are courteous enough to keep providing you answers to questions you have posed (regardless of their insulting or obscure nature), yet you continually refrain from returning that same courtesy, instead ignoring to provide an answer to questions people have posed to you, just from my personal experience alone, I have found that most cultures would define such behavior as rude and disrespectful.

Hence I don’t see any reason why anyone here should in fact address anymore of your "questions" until you start to do likewise.

However, lucky for you, in this instance, since you claim to reside in South Australia, it just so happens that there may be another avenue you could pursue to obtain answers for the very same questions.

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Senate/Powers_practice_n_procedures/Constitution/preamble

I would like to bring your attention to the underlined section of the opening paragraph…

Commonwealth Of Australia Constitution Act

(Preamble)
An Act to constitute the Commonwealth of Australia. [9th July 1900]

(The Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act 1900 is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom at Westminster)

Whereas the people of New South Wales, Victoria, South Australia, Queensland, and Tasmania, humbly relying on the blessing of Almighty God, have agreed to unite in one indissoluble Federal Commonwealth under the Crown of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, and under the Constitution hereby established:…