Does nationalism impede public demand for democratic change?

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  • Risto the Great
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 15660

    Does nationalism impede public demand for democratic change?

    Recent research by two scholars (Wenfang Tan & Benjamin Darr) concluded that, based on surveys conducted in the past decade, nationalism serves as a powerful instrument in impeding public demand for democratic change. The study also found that China had the highest level of nationalism of 36 countries and regions surveyed. America and Japan were not far behind.

    How does Macedonia fit into this conclusion?
    8
    Yes
    0%
    3
    No
    0%
    5
    Risto the Great
    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com
  • Risto the Great
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 15660

    #2
    I have not voted yet but certainly have my own thoughts on the matter. Curious to know yours.
    Risto the Great
    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

    Comment

    • Vangelovski
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 8534

      #3
      As far as I'm aware, nationalism doesn't exist in any meaningful way in Macedonia (at least among Macedonians) so it would be impossible to determine what effect it has on the public's views on democratic change.
      If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

      The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

      Comment

      • Risto the Great
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 15660

        #4
        Well, I think nationalism in Macedonia does exist but not in a meaningful way. So we both agree, but we don't. I think Macedonians in Macedonia are becoming increasingly nationalistic but in a very peculiar way. Their appreciation of issues relating to national identity are absolutely perverse but I have the distinct impression that supporting Gruevski is their version of preserving the national identity.
        Risto the Great
        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

        Comment

        • Vangelovski
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 8534

          #5
          Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
          Well, I think nationalism in Macedonia does exist but not in a meaningful way. So we both agree, but we don't. I think Macedonians in Macedonia are becoming increasingly nationalistic but in a very peculiar way. Their appreciation of issues relating to national identity are absolutely perverse but I have the distinct impression that supporting Gruevski is their version of preserving the national identity.
          I don't think that's actually nationalism...something closer to a 'cult personality' system like Tito worship.
          If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

          The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

          Comment

          • Soldier of Macedon
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 13675

            #6
            Extreme nationalism and extreme democracy clash, but if applied appropriately in their moderate forms, they can co-exist. In broad terms, democracy should apply to human and civic rights for all citizens, whereas nationalism should apply to the preservation of the state's historical and cultural identity. All persons should be equal before the law, but the integrity of a nation should never be made artificial by being put to a vote. In the case of Macedonia, I would say that nationalism doesn't impede on democracy, because Macedonian nationalism (despite being asleep these days among most people in the state) doesn't impede on the human and civic rights of non-Macedonians (or Macedonians, for that matter).

            So, I will vote no to your question RtG.
            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

            Comment

            • Risto the Great
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 15660

              #7
              Do you agree with the original (broader) research that nationalism impedes public demand for democratic change?

              If yes, would you say democracy (and the mechanism for democratic change) is intact in Macedonia? Are Macedonians really getting what they want? I can't see it. If nationalism doesn't exist or exists on a small scale, we should see a strong democratic process. It isn't there.

              I believe the DPmNE supporters are nationalistic even though they do not understand the monster they are continually placing in power.
              Risto the Great
              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

              Comment

              • George S.
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2009
                • 10116

                #8
                There is no clear cut,& no answer that is as it applies to macedonia.You have the wearing out of the sovereignity by the albanians they are taking over because there hardly is any macedonian nationalism.I don't know if people notice or care about it.But in contrast look at greece it has a lot of natinalism & politicians work them up into a frenzy that they are told they are related to the ancient greeks & macedonians.This sort of thing is only going to whip them up into a frenzy & in a democracy if you call it that it's going to interfere in the demand for a democratic change.
                In macedonia nationalism is still developing people are asleep when they should be awake.People don't care as they did in the past.So in a democracy like in macedonia without much nationalism the people expect the govt to make the necessary things for them.They are really lazy look at the poll turnout they have to form a coalition with the albanians just to get in.In macedonia it's a mix like a salad & it's getting more & more complicated as it is taking time to work up the national identity.Most people don't care as long as they got job,food in the belly,roof over their head.They don't need nationalism.
                Last edited by George S.; 10-05-2012, 07:14 PM. Reason: ed
                "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                GOTSE DELCEV

                Comment

                • Chiche
                  Member
                  • Jul 2012
                  • 193

                  #9
                  Lads the constant negative comments re Gruevski and his party is getting old and boring. If this man and his party are no good, please enlighten us all, who should be in power.

                  Comment

                  • Risto the Great
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 15660

                    #10
                    Chiche, constant negatives are entirely appropriate for the Gruevski coalition. What planet are you on? You can't see what it's going on?
                    Risto the Great
                    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                    Comment

                    • Chiche
                      Member
                      • Jul 2012
                      • 193

                      #11
                      Planet Earth is where I reside. Gruevski must keep his enemies (Albo's) close to him, to have control of them. You Risto and others can not provide me with a better option than Gruevski, why? because there is no better? all political parties are corrupt to varying degree's, its up to those who have a vote to chose the least corrupt!

                      Comment

                      • Risto the Great
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 15660

                        #12
                        Just because there is no better does not mean Macedonians should accept it. Only sheep or slaves put up with that shit. Which are you?
                        Risto the Great
                        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                        Comment

                        • Soldier of Macedon
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 13675

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Chiche View Post
                          Lads the constant negative comments re Gruevski and his party is getting old and boring.
                          The truth may appear boring even to a deluded apologist, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it is the truth. We don't support politicians or political parties that compromise on the identity and sovereignty of Macedonia. If you do, then you're clearly in the wrong place. Perhaps try your luck at some Albanian or Greek forum, I am sure they'll have a field day with lads like yourself.
                          If this man and his party are no good, please enlighten us all, who should be in power.
                          Currently, there is no political party in Macedonia that isn't prepared to sell its arse to Greeks or Albanians in one way or another. Find me one and I will support it. Can you?
                          Gruevski must keep his enemies (Albo's) close to him, to have control of them.
                          Yawn....the Gruevski "master plan". Wake up and smell the coffee Chiche. Gruevski has no control over his buddies like Besimi.
                          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                          Comment

                          • Vangelovski
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 8534

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Chiche View Post
                            Planet Earth is where I reside. Gruevski must keep his enemies (Albo's) close to him, to have control of them.
                            Chiche, please don't try to kill our forum members by making them split their guts laughing. We used to have a funny man like you. He was known by many names but my favourite was Bozo the Clown. It was too much for us.
                            If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                            The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                            Comment

                            • Risto the Great
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 15660

                              #15
                              This is my point, the sheep following Gruevski actually believe in the "master plan". This is their brand of nationalism and it is impeding democratic change. The "brand" stinks but that is quite irrelevant.

                              Poor Chiche believes it all, no matter how FYROMIAN Macedonia has become under Gruevski's reign.
                              Risto the Great
                              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                              Comment

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