Razer and Stefan - Bulgar morons

[Razer]

But then you have this, which clearly contradicts with my previous post.

Makedonci vo Bugarija - Macedonians in Bulgaria - Македонци в България - YouTube

[Razer]

And here's an interesting map of the Byzantine themes. Bulgaria is # 46 and Macedonia # 2. Notice the locations of the two territories. Do you disagree?

[Razer]

I will believe that when most Bulgars stop behaving like racist morons towards Macedonians. Your odd perception about people being "good" despite insulting others remains delusional. You clearly don't know what it is like being Macedonian and having to deal with that sort of idiotic garbage from every single one of your neighbours. I asked you before to find me just ONE website where Bulgars don't have that sort of a pathetic attitude towards Macedonians. You avoided it. Are you planning on addressing that point? Surely, if there are so many "good" Bulgars, this should be an easy task.

I agree it's best for Bulgarians to keep their mouth shut. And I did not avoid your question - I'm not the kind of person who avoids anything - I was just not able to find such a site. It's sad, but this is the current situation we have. Let's hope one day there will be plenty.

Where in Bulgaria are you from?

Sofia. I have a house outside the city which I'm busy fixing up now. It's so nice not to pay rent and have your own property!

Who said anything about Boris inventing it? You implied that Cyrillic was created for Boris when you said "the alphabet was created under the orders of Boris". I asked you for evidence of this. I am still waiting.

Bad choice of worlds on my side. I meant he helped in it's establishment and distribution.

Wrong. Macedonians only claim that which their own ancestors achieved. We don't deny that Bulgars created a kingdom or that this kingdom came to rule/occupy much of Macedonia. We don't deny a shared history during certain periods of time. And I wouldn't characterise the adoption of Cyrillic by Boris as 'theft', but to claim it as a 'Bulgar' invention is theft. It is your people who deny that the alphabet and associated language they adopted was a product of Macedonian scholars, our ancestors - even though this is an undeniable fact.

Fair enough. I can see your point. But remember that for most of it's existence during the middle ages, Bulgaria was the hub of Slavic culture, especially during the right of Simeon the Great (Boris' son) who printed 200,000 Bibles and build 10,000 new churches across the Balkans. This was the catalyst for the Cyrillic alphabet, only Macedonians seem to ignore that.

Hard to say. Some claim he was, others claim that Ivan Vladislav killed all close family members of Gavril Radomir, who was the son of Samuel and supposed father of Delyan. Just so it's clear, I don't subscribe to the theory that Samuel had three brothers. In the only surviving inscription made by Samuel, he refers to only one brother, and that brother was not the father of Ivan Vladislav.

So do you think Samuel ruled over an independent kingdom called Macedonia (and if so, how long did this kingdom last?) or that he was of Macedonian origin and became a Bulgarian king?

[Onur]

Razer, Cyril&Methodius absolutely had no relation with Bulgaria or Bulgarians of 9th century. They were Macedonians born in Salonika, missionaries working for the benefit of eastern Roman empire. Their duty was to christianize surrounding peoples of eastern Roman empire and create new alliances with that.

In 9th century, Bulgars were still speaking Turkic, ruled by Khans and had tengrist, shamanist faith. Cyril&Methodius created your current alphabet to ease Bulgar peoples assimilation and conversion to christianity. Same process has been done to Germanic peoples in 5th century by western Roman missionary named Ulfilas. Germanic peoples was using runic script too and Ulfilas created a special Latin script to write in Germanic for them.

Already Bulgars had their own runic script, if Cyril&Methodius would be Bulgarians, then why would they create new alphabet for themselves? Cyrillic alphabet has been created in Macedonia, promoted by eastern Romans and forced upon Bulgars by using their recently christianized rulers who adopted the title tsar instead of khan at that time. In your own quote from Brittanica, it mentions about the resistance of Vladimir to christianity and to the usage of new Cyrillic alphabet but he was overthrown most likely by eastern Romans. So, this doesn't give us an impression of the so-called creation of Cyrillic by Bulgars either.

Just read my messages here in this thread about that;

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4276&p=69743

Cyril&Methodious talks about Bulgarians in their own memoirs, calling them as Hunnic peoples akin with Turkic Khazars from upper Volga river and says that they are effectively christianizing the ones in Danube in late 9th century. If they would be Bulgars themselves, they would describe Bulgars like that?

[Razer]

@ Onur

The majority of the population on the Balkans, including Bulgarians, was Christian and some of the Bulgarian rulers before Boris I had Christian faith. One of them was Kubrat - the father of Asparuch, who was baptised in Constantinople.

As far as Cyril and Methodious - not even scholars agree 100% about their nationality. But my issue is not so much what was their origin. It is that Macedonians don't acknowledge the role Bulgaria played in developing and distributing the alphabet.

[GStojanov]

Razer,

Welcome to this forum.

Thank you for the videos of OMO Ilinden celebrating this April 2012. This is the first year they were able to celebrate freely, and I would like to thank the bulgarian government for that.

In addition to the bulgarian government I would like to thank the UN Envoy that visited Bulgaria last June 2011 and this January released a monitoring statement effectively announcing that Bulgaria will be under UN monitoring for neglecting minority rights of Macedonians and others. This may partly explain why this year there were no obstructions to the celebration.

Previous years, even the last year, though, the Bulgarian border officials prevented visitors from R. Macedonia to come to the meeting. During the previous 21 years Bulgarian gov used all kinds of excuses to obstruct the meetings. For that it was sued by Macedonians 7 or 8 times in front of the EU court and we won all these cases. I still remember how during the years they were recruiting the "local gangs" (read: policement in plain clothes) to come and beat Macedonians with baseball bats.

Lets hope the monitoring lasts for a couple more years, and bulgarian government gets used to our existence and recognizes our rights and freedoms.

[Onur]

The majority of the population on the Balkans, including Bulgarians, was Christian and some of the Bulgarian rulers before Boris I had Christian faith. One of them was Kubrat - the father of Asparuch, who was baptised in Constantinople.

You should realize that the baptism of early Bulgar Khans was just politics, nothing else. It was a sign of alliance with them. Read the link i gave in my previous massage here. Cyril&Methoidus himself says that Bulgars started get baptized during their lifetime, so we can say that Bulgars largely became christian only after 10th century. It was same for us Turks too. Our predominant figures became muslim as early as 10th century but people largely became muslim after 13th century and you know, we also abolished our own runic script in favor of Arabic script after islamization.

It is that Macedonians don't acknowledge the role Bulgaria played in developing and distributing the alphabet.

You had no role at all except being a subject of it. Bulgars was just assimilated with it but Bulgarians of 9th century had no role in creation or distribution of it. The credit goes to Macedonians and generally eastern Romans for that.

[George S.]

Razer can you explain to me how cyryl & methodius were bulgarian when they came from
Salonika macedonia.Also the claim that even St clement was from ohrid & you (bulgarians) claim that he was bulgarian When in fact he was macedonian.So look at the fashion of the bulgarians the same as the greeks to hellenise everything & bulgarians to bulgarise everything & everyone.Can you explain to me what language was there prior to the cyrillic alphabet.Was it bulgarian.Evidence suggest that the bulgars dissapeared long time ago to be replaced by the tartars.That is mainly why the bulgarians are clutching at other people's history,culture,because they got none.They adopt anything & everything macedonian & pass it off as bulgarian ain't that the truth!

[Razer]

You had no role at all except being a subject of it. Bulgars was just assimilated with it but Bulgarians of 9th century had no role in creation or distribution of it. The credit goes to Macedonians and generally eastern Romans for that.

In that case please tell the Vatican they have made a mistake.



Source: Official Vatican Site.

Sorry, but you either don't know history, or you're spreading lines on purpose.

[Razer]

Evidence suggest that the bulgars dissapeared long time ago to be replaced by the tartars.

I dare you to give me one single evidence (from non-Macedonian site please). Any historian will laugh at this, it's nonsense.

[George S.]

How can you claim all the glory & credit for something you never did or had.You claim that cyril & methodius were bulgarian ,the greeks claim that they were greek.The fact is theywere born in salonika macedonia.The only benefit that bulgaria claim is that they utilised or adopted the cyrillic alphabet.Remember cyril & methodius were ordered to go to bulgaria.It's going to shock you but you are totally wrong reading crap & BS.What did the cyril & methidius use to devolop their new alphabet.They used the glagolithic alphabet.The macedonian language played a part.The bulgarian language as such there was none so they didn't develop from the bulgarian.So you are using our alphabet & our language.The least you can say is thank you & not try & steal it.Look at where it all originated you will see you merely ADOPTED our language.You are too embarrased to admit it & since then all sorts of fanicifull rtheories have come out.Rember where the origins were developed from Macedonian.Remember you had no language ,where was your bulgarian language & alphabet prior to cyrillic there was none.

[Razer]

Wow, that's all I can say...

[Razer]

@George S.

Please mate, can you show me the evidence that Bulgarians disappeared and were repapered by Tatars? Where did you hear that??!! Wow

[Razer]

I'll post this again. It's not me saying it, it's just the Vatican.



Source: Official Vatican Site.

[George S.]

w.youtube.com/watch?v=OsqkEMT4vws you are tartaric !,tartastan does that ring a bell?
have a look at the you tube & you'll see.You are nothing tartars.You don't know your history so why jump & try to steal our macedonian history.