Razer and Stefan - Bulgar morons

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • George S.
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2009
    • 10116

    Who stopped you from writing your history.
    Bulgar, also called Bulgarian , member of a people known in eastern European history during the Middle Ages. A branch of this people was one of the primary three ethnic ancestors of modern Bulgarians (the other two were Thracians and Slavs).

    Many scholars posit the origins of the Bulgars as a Turkic tribe of Central Asia (perhaps with Iranian elements) and suggest that they arrived in the European steppe west of the Volga River with the Huns about 370 ce. Retreating with the Huns, they resettled about 460 in an arc of country north and east of the Sea of Azov. Hired by the Byzantines in 480 to fight against the Ostrogoths, the Bulgars subsequently became attracted by the wealth of the Byzantine Empire. In the 6th century the Bulgars continually attacked the Danubian provinces of the Byzantine Empire until, in the 560s, they were themselves threatened by the Avars, who were then advancing from Asia into central Europe. The Avars destroyed one Bulgar tribe, but the rest saved themselves by submitting, for two decades, to another horde of Turkic newcomers, most of whom then retreated back into Asia.

    Unified under a single ruler, Kurt, or Kubrat (reigned c. 605–c. 642), the Bulgars constituted a powerful khanate known to the Byzantines as Great Bulgaria, with the Kuban River as its southern frontier. After Kurt’s death his five sons split the people into five hordes. One of these five, remaining on the coast of the Sea of Azov, was absorbed into the new empire of the Khazars; another migrated to central Europe and was merged with the Avars; and another disappeared into service under the Lombards in Italy. Two of the five hordes, however, had longer futures.

    Kurt’s son Bezmer, or Bat-Bayan, avoided the Khazars by leading his horde far to the north, where it eventually occupied an ill-defined country around the confluence of the Volga and Kama rivers. Subdivided there into three groups (probably through mergers with indigenous peoples or with other immigrants), the horde maintained itself in prosperity for some 600 years. These Volga Bulgars formed not so much a state as a seminomadic confederation, but they had two cities, Bulgar and Suvar, which profited as transshipment points in the trade between the fur-selling Ugrians and Russians of the far north and the southern civilizations—Byzantium, the Muslim caliphate of Baghdad, and Turkistan. The Volga Bulgars were converted to Islam about 922. In 1237 they were made subject to the Mongol Golden Horde, and, though the city of Bulgar flourished for a long time afterward, the people gradually lost their identity and were mingled with the Russians.

    The fifth product of the breakup of Great Bulgaria was the horde that Kurt’s son Asparukh led westward across the Dniester River and then southward across the Danube. There, on the plain between the Danube and the Balkan Mountains, they established the kernel of the so-called first Bulgarian empire—the state from which the modern nation of Bulgaria derives its name. In the 7th century the Danubian region was nominally controlled by the Byzantine Empire, and it was inhabited by Vlachs (ancestors of the modern Romanians) and also very largely by recently arrived Slavs. In 681 the first Bulgarian empire was officially founded and recognized by the Byzantine Empire. Asparukh’s successor, Tervel (701–718), helped to restore Emperor Justinian II to the Byzantine throne in 705 and was rewarded with the title “caesar.” In 717–718 Tervel and a Bulgarian army joined with the Byzantine emperor Leo III to launch a massive offensive against an Arab army invading Constantinople (Istanbul). The Bulgarian army defeated the Arabs and successfully defended the city.

    The conquering Bulgars were soon permeated by Vlach and, even more thoroughly, by Slavic elements. At the same time, their conquests were carrying them deeper into the ambit of Byzantine Christianity. Territorial expansion into Serbia and Macedonia under Krum (khan 803–814) and under Pressian (836–852) was followed by the conversion of the Bulgars to Christianity under Boris I. The new church’s liturgy was in the language known as Old Bulgarian (Old Church Slavonic), which was a composite of Bulgar and Slav linguistic elements. It proved to be a powerful agent in creating a common culture among the Bulgars and Slavs. By the time Bulgaria was incorporated into the Byzantine Empire early in the 11th century, the Bulgars and Slavs had melded into a Slavic-speaking, Christianized people essentially identical to today’s Bulgarians.

    Boris I’s son Simeon I, who was acknowledged as tsar, or emperor, of the Bulgars, brought the first empire to its acme as a Balkan power, even though he had to give up the lands north of the Danube to fresh invaders from the Eurasian steppe. As invasions of the Balkan Peninsula from the north continued intermittently over the next four centuries, the Turkic element in the Bulgarians’ ethnic makeup was reinforced by strains derived from the Pechenegs, Kipchaks, and Cumans—all Turkic peoples. In this period Bulgaria became a cultural centre of eastern Europe, especially famous for its literary schools of Preslav (now Veliki Preslav) and Ohrid.

    After Simeon’s death the first Bulgarian empire was undermined by internal divisions and invasions of Magyars, Pechenegs, Rus, and Byzantines. In 1018 Bulgaria was incorporated into the Byzantine Empire. An anti-Byzantine revolt of the Balkan peoples in 1185 produced the second Bulgarian empire, and by 1241 the Bulgarian tsars of the house of Asen (1185–1280) were supreme in most of the lands from the Danube River to the Aegean Sea and from the Adriatic to the Black Sea. But Mongol attacks from the north, Serbian encroachment on the west, and internal rivalry among the successors of the Asens eroded this second empire, and in 1396 it fell to the Ottoman Turks, who were overrunning the Balkans from the south.

    Throughout the long period of direct Ottoman rule (1396–1878), the Bulgarians’ obstinate Christianity prevented their being merged completely with the Muslim Turks, while their retention of a Slavic language kept them from absorption by the Greeks predominant in the Eastern Orthodox Church as recognized by the Ottomans. In 1878 an autonomous Bulgarian principality under Ottoman suzerainty was established. Bulgaria was declared independent, as a tsardom or kingdom, in 1908.
    "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
    GOTSE DELCEV

    Comment

    • Razer
      Banned
      • May 2012
      • 395

      Originally posted by makedonche View Post
      Razer



      Would it be ok with you if Macedonians did the same thing?
      Of course, but it must be based on historical accuracy and backed-up by evidence. Like I said in my first post - I support 100% the independence Macedonia 100%.

      Comment

      • Razer
        Banned
        • May 2012
        • 395

        Originally posted by George S.
        Razer one thing's clear what the bulgarians owe the macedonian people is to return their lands they took themYou should free the people.If you don't do what is right your country will go the way like greece being onliterated there is nothing better than a country destroying itself.
        This will never happen and you better stop doing claims like that because they lead to war. This is no more Macedonian land, but Bulgarian. Follow your own advice - "accept it, shit happens".

        Comment

        • EgejskaMakedonia
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2010
          • 1665

          Originally posted by Razer View Post
          This will never happen and you better stop doing claims like that because they lead to war. This is no more Macedonian land, but Bulgarian. Follow your own advice - "accept it, shit happens".
          That's no excuse to treat minorities like rubbish. Most Macedonians know that it isn't realistic that Macedonia will return to its' pre-1913 borders anytime soon. All we ask for is our people in these particular areas be treated respectfully and granted the basic human rights that everyone should enjoy.

          To this day, Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia have failed in this regard.

          Comment

          • Razer
            Banned
            • May 2012
            • 395

            Originally posted by Daskalot View Post
            Razer can you please explain what the term Bulgar means and how it became your national label?
            There are several theories about the meaning and nobody can say for sure. But it's very clear how it became a nationality. The Bulgars were the founding fathers of Bulgaria, and the driving force behind the Bulgarian nation since it's establishment in 681 AD.

            Comment

            • Razer
              Banned
              • May 2012
              • 395

              Originally posted by EgejskaMakedonia View Post
              That's no excuse to treat minorities like rubbish.
              Can you give me some examples of how Macedonians are being treated like rubbish? I mean, some real evidence. And Bulgarian constitution doesn't accept ethnic minorities on it's territory - it treats everybody right as a Bulgarian citizen. If you have Bulgarian passport - you are Bulgarian. Those are the rules.

              Originally posted by EgejskaMakedonia View Post
              Most Macedonians know that it isn't realistic that Macedonia will return to its' pre-1913 borders anytime soon.
              This will never happen, not without a war. And if war happens, Macedonia will lose.

              Originally posted by EgejskaMakedonia View Post
              All we ask for is our people in these particular areas be treated respectfully and granted the basic human rights that everyone should enjoy.
              Everybody in Bulgaria has human rights, including the Macedonians who are free to live, study and work. Last year, almost 500,000 Macedonians visited Bulgaria. Have you heard any one to complain?
              Last edited by Razer; 05-30-2012, 06:42 AM.

              Comment

              • Vangelovski
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 8532

                Originally posted by Razer View Post
                This will never happen and you better stop doing claims like that because they lead to war. This is no more Macedonian land, but Bulgarian. Follow your own advice - "accept it, shit happens".
                Bulgaria may currently occupy that territory, but it does not make it "Bulgarian".
                If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                Comment

                • EgejskaMakedonia
                  Senior Member
                  • Jan 2010
                  • 1665

                  Originally posted by Razer View Post
                  Can you give me some examples of how Macedonians are being treated like rubbish? I mean, some real evidence. And Bulgarian constitution doesn't accept ethnic minorities on it's territory - it treats everybody right as a Bulgarian citizen. If you have Bulgarian passport - you are Bulgarian. Those are the rules.

                  This will never happen, not without a war. And if war happens, it will be Macedonia that loses, that's obvious.

                  Everybody in Bulgaria has human rights, including the Macedonians who are free to live here, study and work. Last year, almost 500,000 Macedonians visited Bulgaria. Have you heard any one to complain?
                  What the hell are you on about? You say there are no minorities, then go on to state that Macedonians are living freely in Bulgaria? Either you are indirectly implying that Macedonians are 'Bulgarian' or you're a severe hypocrite!

                  Your constitution is substantially flawed if this is the case. Perhaps this is one of the reasons Bulgaria readily offers passports to Macedonians in RoM, as some sort of statement of ownership.

                  As for the unification of Macedonia, of course it won't happen without a war. That's why I clearly stated it isn't realistic. Regardless, one would think that it is somewhat reasonable for minorities to be recognised...given that this territory was 'conquered' or 'gifted' in a sense. A constitution is regarded as a sacred founding document in most countries, but when some outdated sections lead to absurd outcomes, it is only just that these are amended or removed entirely.

                  A lot of Macedonians also visit Greece for holidays and various other purposes, yet that means jack shit in regards to how Macedonians are treated there. I'll leave it to others to provide you with examples. There are a few I can think of off the top of my head, but I'm far more informed when it comes to the violations of human rights on behalf of Greece.

                  Why are you even here? You expressed your interest and willingness to learn from Macedonians, yet degrade and insult our existence. What did you expect the response would be on a Macedonian forum? As much as you want to portray Macedonians and Bulgars as 'brothers,' unfortunately (for you), the most we have in common is our language (and by the looks of it, Bulgars adopted that...just like their claims on Macedonian revolutionaries).
                  Last edited by EgejskaMakedonia; 05-30-2012, 06:58 AM.

                  Comment

                  • Razer
                    Banned
                    • May 2012
                    • 395


                    Bulgaria may currently occupy that territory, but it does not make it "Bulgarian".
                    But it is Bulgarian at the moment. But keep on claiming it as "Macedonian" and lets see what will happen...

                    Comment

                    • Vangelovski
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 8532

                      Originally posted by Razer View Post
                      But it is Bulgarian at the moment. But keep on claiming it as "Macedonian" and lets see what will happen...
                      Its Macedonian territory. Now what tough guy? What is there to see?
                      If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                      The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                      Comment

                      • EgejskaMakedonia
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2010
                        • 1665

                        Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                        Its Macedonian territory. Now what tough guy? What is there to see?
                        Careful Tom, he may send some of his ancestors to break down your fence.

                        South Park DAMN MONGOLIAN - YouTube

                        Comment

                        • Razer
                          Banned
                          • May 2012
                          • 395

                          He he he, pathetic but entertaining - that's for sure! )

                          Comment

                          • Razer
                            Banned
                            • May 2012
                            • 395

                            Originally posted by EgejskaMakedonia View Post
                            Your constitution is substantially flawed if this is the case. Perhaps this is one of the reasons Bulgaria readily offers passports to Macedonians in RoM, as some sort of statement of ownership.
                            The constitution is what it is, we can't change that. But this is the law. And nobody is forcing Macedonians to get Bulgarian passport - they do it on their own free will.

                            Originally posted by EgejskaMakedonia View Post
                            As for the unification of Macedonia, of course it won't happen without a war. That's why I clearly stated it isn't realistic. Regardless, one would think that it is somewhat reasonable for minorities to be recognised...given that this territory was 'conquered' or 'gifted' in a sense. A constitution is regarded as a sacred founding document in most countries, but when some outdated sections lead to absurd outcomes, it is only just that these are amended or removed entirely.
                            I agree. Only a sick mind can entertain the idea of more wars on the Balkan - I think we had enough of them! Macedonia needs to start moving forward wit the rest of Europe. Now is the time to develop our countries into proper European democracies. I think the Bulgarian constitution was drafted like that so that future ethnic conflicts are avoided.

                            Originally posted by EgejskaMakedonia View Post
                            A lot of Macedonians also visit Greece for holidays and various other purposes, yet that means jack shit in regards to how Macedonians are treated there. I'll leave it to others to provide you with examples. There are a few I can think of off the top of my head, but I'm far more informed when it comes to the violations of human rights on behalf of Greece.
                            Yes, but I hear crazy claims that Bulgarian police is beating and killing Macedonians and that nobody even dares to call himself Macedonian. That 800,000 ethnic Macedonians are being oppressed in the Pirin region, which I already exposed as a lie with authentic documents. I guess the point I was trying to make is that if ethnic Macedonians are really being treated in such a bad way, Macedonians would not just be coming to holidays here in their hundreds of thousands...

                            Originally posted by EgejskaMakedonia View Post
                            Why are you even here?
                            I guess I had the crazy idea that we need to be building bridges, not burning them. Crazy, right?
                            Last edited by Razer; 05-30-2012, 10:29 AM.

                            Comment

                            • Vangelovski
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 8532

                              Razer, let me get this clear - are you denying the oppression (violation of human rights) of Macedonians in Bulgarian occupied Macedonia and Bulgaria itself?
                              If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                              The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                              Comment

                              • Big Bad Sven
                                Senior Member
                                • Jan 2009
                                • 1528

                                Originally posted by Razer View Post


                                Yes, but I hear crazy claims that Bulgarian police is beating and killing Macedonians and that nobody even dares to call himself Macedonian. That 800,000 ethnic Macedonians are being oppressed in the Pirin region, which I already exposed as a lie with authentic documents. I guess the point I was trying to make is that if ethnic Macedonians are really being treated in such a bad way, Macedonians would not just be coming to holidays here in their hundreds of thousands...

                                Ummmm, its well known and well documented (with even footage) of macedonians being treated like garbage in places like greece, yet idiot macedonians go to greece in large numbers ever year. Suprise surprise large amounts of macedonians go to slavic-bulgaria every year to be treated like garbage as well!

                                I hear of stories of racist bulgarian slavs intimidating and attacking their roma and turkish minority recently, and think that the poor pirin macedonians must have experienced the same treatment in the late 80's and early 90's. And yet you have the nerve to say bulgaria has excellent human rights for its minorities.

                                How can you say bulgaria treats macedonians good when it does not recognize macedonians as a seperate people from the bulgars, or that their language is seperate and unique from bulgarias?UMO Ilinden–Pirin was expelled from the Bulgarian political system itself, how fair is that?

                                Slavic-Bulgaria is your typical balkan back water country that is always able to be racist towards non-bulgarian slavs in its country and yet amazingly the EU turns a blind eye. Slavic Bulgaria and new age greece seem to have so much in common these days....

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X