Razer and Stefan - Bulgar morons

[DraganOfStip]

Dragan, there are two camps the one that say they were original Greek speakers and the other that says they were not. What they both agree on is that they knew the language nonethess being native speakers or lingua franca. So my answer is not wrong.

Ok now you got me totally confused here,are you talking about Ancient Macedonian or Koine here?Like said,Macedonians used Koine as the language of the court,they only used Ancient Macedonian for inner use.What language did they know as native speakers or lingua franca?

[Voltron]

I read that Bulgars had similar burying customs as the Scythians as well.

[Voltron]

Ok now you got me totally confused here,are you talking about Ancient Macedonian or Koine here?Like said,Macedonians used Koine as the language of the court,they only used Ancient Macedonian for inner use.What language did they know as native speakers or lingua franca?

However you want to call it. Greek was not a foreign language to them. I wont go into a pro Greek argument here. Im saying that Greek was spoken prior to the Macedonian language spoken today. No, It was not only limited to court use either.

[DraganOfStip]

@ Dragan

I meant the appearance of the Mongols in Europe. Both kingdoms you mention existed long time before the Mongols of Genghis Khan and his Golden Horde. But dude - seriously - you're only making a fool of yourself with this "Bulgars were Mongols" crazy obsession, that's not even a theory in today's science. There is a Turkic theory, but this is completely different from Mongol. However, today the most scientifically and historically backed theory is the Iranian origin. DNA study also proved it.

Why you so obsessed with believing in lies?

Razer,you seem to misunderstand me here and twist everything I say.
I didn't say Bulgars were Mongols,if you read my posts you'll see I'm refering to them as turko-mongols,at least you and I agree on the Turkic element of your forefathers.However,not even Plamen Cvetkov can deny there were Mongol elements in them,as he clearly states that in his research.So,the Iranian theory seems very unlikely giving the fact that (and I don't know how many times I have to repeat this) there were no Iranian people in the empire of the Huns.
I find it very odd that your people (including you) are pushing forward this idea when Iranians never stepped foot in northwest China?

And please,there's an entire thread about the Ancient Macedonian language here at the MTO forum,there are examples there to be seen and discussed,please spare a few moments and find it and discuss this there,we've already strayed off-topic enough here.

P.S.:Some sources or references for the DNA testing would be appreciated.

[DraganOfStip]

However you want to call it. Greek was not a foreign language to them. I wont go into a pro Greek argument here. Im saying that Greek was spoken prior to the Macedonian language spoken today. No, It was not only limited to court use either.

It wasn't?Then tell me,what language did Alexander use to address his Macedonians and what language did he use to address Greeks,Thracians,Illyrians and other non-Macedonian elements of his great army?Ancient Macedonians had Koine inscriptions on their coins,monuments,tablets and used it as the official language of their empire because it was the trade language of the time,something like Latin was in Roman era or Greek during Byzantine times.All the nobles in Rome and Byzantine Empire used Latin/Greek as their official language,what's so odd here?Just remember the Irish,Scots and Welsh people,they all have their own languages (and try listening to some Welsh,it's out of this world and has nothing in common with English) but they use English as official.Does that make them English?

But anyway,let's get back to the topic.

I read that Bulgars had similar burying customs as the Scythians as well.

Interestingly enough,"In various times Mongols have been equated with the Scythians, the Magog and the Turkic peoples"(Source: Frances Wood, The Silk Road: two thousand years in the heart of Asia),so no wonder they had similar burying customs.

[Razer]

@ Dgragan

Ok, I guess you're better informed that 90% of the Bulgarian academia, which will disagree with you, but hey - you believe in whatever you want mate, it's a free world...

[Voltron]

Here is a good article I remember reading.

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=117903

The place of origin of the Ancient Bulgarians is most likely Eastern Iran, a group of anthropologists and scientists have claimed after an exploratory trip to the Persian lands.

The team of six scientists led by anthropology professor Alexander Iliev presented Wednesday their findings after touring Iran for 20 days, traveling 1100 km inside the country.

“We have found impressive evidence about the Iranian origin of the ancient Bulgarians,” Iliev stated.

The findings include several prototypes of the bronze eagle of the legendary founder of Danube Bulgaria, Khan Asparuh, found in his grave in today’s Ukraine. The Bulgarian team has also researched several graves in Iran bearing similarities to the funerals of the ancient Bulgarians – as well as to those of the ancient Thracians.

The ancient stoneworks and bricks that the expedition studied in Iran are also said to be very similar to the ones employed by the Bulgarians in the late Antiquity and early Middle Ages.

“Even though the Iranians are darker-skinned, they look very much like the Bulgarians anthropologically. Some of the words in today’s Persian language sound the same as words in Bulgarian. Their traditional musical instruments such as whistles, bagpipes, and tambourine fully correspond our folklore tradition. Over half of the carpers in the Caspian areas of Iran coincide with the ornaments, symbols, and colors of the Bulgarian carpets,” Iliev said.

“We should finally forget the thesis that the Bulgarians are Huns of Turkic origin, and should understand that we are from the Indo-European family. We are less than 20% Slavic. The Slavs are not the major element of the Bulgarian ethnicity,” stated in turn historian Georgi Bakalov.

The interdisciplinary expedition to Iran was sponsored by the Foreign Ministry, the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences, the Sofia University, and the Tangra TanNakRa foundation.

The Ancient Bulgarians are known to have settled into today’s Ukraine in the 6th-7th century AD, and to have advanced to the lower Danube around 680 AD, as well as to other parts of Europe.

Long-established theories about the making up of the Bulgarian ethnicity state that the Bulgarian nation was formed through the mixing of the Bulgarians with the local population made up of Slavs and some Thracians. Before 1989 the Bulgarians were believed to have been a minor tribe of tribe of Turkic origin; new research have led scholars to believe that they were in fact more numerous and originated in Central Asia, somewhere in Iran and Afghanistan.

[Voltron]

" The Byzantine Chronist Theophanes the Confesor, narrates of the Bulgar ruler Krum, who made a golden cup, from the scull of the Byzantine Emperor Nicephorus. The same practice was described by Herodotus about the Scythians."

http://samoistina.com/2/similarities.htm

[DraganOfStip]

@ Dgragan

Ok, I guess you're better informed that 90% of the Bulgarian academia, which will disagree with you, but hey - you believe in whatever you want mate, it's a free world...

Your academia pushes forward what suits them,in this case it's distancing your people from anything Asian and prefer the Iranian story (which,as showed before is very unlikely because there were no Iranians in northwest China to descend from).But hey,as you say,it's a free world and you guys can believe whatever you want.Even Alexander I Philhellen believed he and the Macedonians descended from Heracles... Let's just say Bulgars were MOSTLY of Turkic origin (Turkic people WERE a part of the Hunnic federation) and call it a draw,shall we?

[DraganOfStip]

Voltron:

The team of six scientists led by anthropology professor Alexander Iliev

stated in turn historian Georgi Bakalov

sponsored by the Foreign Ministry, the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences, the Sofia University

Wow,great sources mate.Can you present us something NON-Bulgarian,since we all know they're pushing the Iranian theory?

[Voltron]

Your academia pushes forward what suits them,in this case it's distancing your people from anything Asian and prefer the Iranian story (which,as showed before is very unlikely because there were no Iranians in northwest China to descend from).But hey,as you say,it's a free world and you guys can believe whatever you want.Let's just say Bulgars were MOSTLY of Turkic origin (Turkic people WERE a part of the Hunnic federation) and call it a draw,shall we?

Dragan, your insisting that they came from NW China. Where are those physical traits that show it ? Do these ppl look like Uyghars to you ?

Wow,great source mate.Can you present us something NON-Bulgarian,since we all know they're pushing the Iranian theory?

There is ample evidence to support the Iranian theory. They arent pulling it out of their ass. Have you even read any ?

[DraganOfStip]

Dragan, your insisting that they came from NW China. Where are those physical traits that show it ? Do these ppl look like Uyghars to you ?





There is ample evidence to support the Iranian theory. They arent pulling it out of their ass. Have you even read any ?

I'm not 'insisting',the researches and historical documents clearly show that Bulgars were first mentioned in the 2nd century B.C. as a part of the peoples that formed the federal empire of the Huns in northwest China.It's not something I've made up,it's a FACT.And showing me these pictures doesn't prove a thing.Bulgars interacted with Slavs (which everywhere are described as blond-haired and bright-tanned people) and accepted their language and culture,with the Balkan natives (Thracians mostly,as well as many other non-Asiatic peoples),leftovers of numerous raiders\looters of the middle ages (Goths,Celts etc),and every possible nation that passed through Bulgarian territory (and the only Asiatic people among them were Atilla's Huns).So,take the law of probability and you make the equation,if you take 10 green shades and just one blue and mix them up,how much of the blue would be visible?It's common sense mate.

[Voltron]

I'm not 'insisting',the researches and historical documents clearly show that Bulgars were first mentioned in the 2nd century B.C. as a part of the peoples that formed the federal empire of the Huns in northwest China.I didn't make up anything,it's a FACT.And showing me these pictures doesn't prove a thing.Bulgars interacted with Slavs (which everywhere are described as blond-haired and bright-tanned people) and accepted their language and culture,with the Balkan natives (Thracians mostly,as well as many other non-Asiatic peoples),leftovers of numerous raiders\looters of the middle ages (Goths,Celts etc),and every possible nation that passed through Bulgarian territory (and the only Asiatic people among them were Atilla's Huns).So,take the law of probability and you make the equation,if you take 10 green shades and just one blue and mix them up,how much of the blue would be visible?It's common sense mate.

Sure, I agree with that except one thing. There is no definite proof that they came from NW China. It is only a theory which is debatable. Can you site me that proof that says they came from NW China ? What historical documents are you referring to ?

[DraganOfStip]

Sure, I agree with that except one thing. There is no definite proof that they came from NW China. It is only a theory which is debatable. Can you site me that proof that says they came from NW China ? What historical documents are you referring to ?

Bulgarian scientist Vasil Zlatarski:

The early history of the Bulgars should be sought without a doubt in the history of those central Asiatic turkic peoples,known under the general name of 'Huns'

And we all know WHERE their empire was located,right?Surprisingly enough NW China
For further sources please contact Mr.Cvetkov.After all,HE made the research,I don't know his sources.

[Voltron]

I thought you said not to trust Bulgarian sources ?
Thats all from me for now.