Greeks: A simple question

[AMINTA]

XELLENI-HELLENI,SELLENI-ISSELENI

What proof do you need more?

[Risto the Great]

So you should clarify that "Macedonia as a term didn't exist for the "Grkmani" until the 90s."
In Greece this part never stopped to be called Macedonia,and its inhabitants Macedonians.(always meaning Greek)

The problems were not created in the Diaspora, they continued in the Diaspora. Whatever happened in Greece after the massive migrations of the 1950's is really something that someone who has no zealot type allegiance to Greece, (but lived there during this period of identity creation), can comment upon.

TN, I note you avoided the Greek schoolbooks which Bratot clearly identified referring to Macedonia in the Republic. What drives you to be such an apologist? Almost all Greek apologists like you talk "on behalf" of your Government and constantly say "we" when referring to Government actions. Macedonians sit back and say "they" when referring to Government actions most of the time. Perhaps we can both look into this and see why this is the case.

[AMINTA]

The Modern Greek Propaganda



The Greek Propaganda claiming that the ancient Macedonians "were Greek", extensively bombards the Internet, libraries, and bookstores. Below are the main points of the Greek propaganda, which is examined in details. One can easily see that all of these claims are absurd in the eyes of the history and are completely unsupported by credible evidence. Thus, the goal of this post is to provide the audience with all evidence (ancient and modern), and to prove the absurdity of the modern Greek claims that the ancient Macedonians "were Greek".



* Greek Claim 1: "Macedonia is a Greek land"

* Greek Claim 2: "Ancient Macedonians were Greeks"

* Greek Claim 3: "Philip II from Macedon united the Greek states"

* Greek Claim 4: "Alexander's conquest was a Greek conquest"

* Greek Claim 5: "Alexander's army was a Greek army"

* Greek Claim 6: "There is no ancient Macedonian Language but a Greek dialect"



Unlike the Greek Propagandists Internet websites, we are not afraid to show the reader the opinion on the opposite site. Below are the 5 of the Greeks internet sites which have the same agenda to propagate that the Macedonians had always been Greeks, that Macedonia has always been part of Greece, that there is no Macedonian nation, etc.



* Pan-Macedonian Network http://www.macedonia.com

* Macedonian FAQ (Hellenic)http://www.abest.com/~angelos/macfaq.html

* A Very Brief History of Macedonia http://www.abest.com/~angelos/history.html

* The Truth About Macedonia http://truth.macedonia.gr/

* Macedonian Heritage http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/



We have examined the allegations of the modern Greek websites, picked up the so-called site "The Truth About Macedonia http://truth.macedonia.gr/", and easily exposed their distortions to light.



We encourage the reader to examine the allegations of the modern Greek websites and notice exactly how they are distorting the truth about Macedonia. One can easily see that non of the above 5 Greek propagandist sites has presented any of the overwhelming ancient and modern evidence which proves the contrary of their erroneous claim, and that is that Macedonians had never been Greeks, that Macedonia has never been part of Greece, that there is had been and still exist a Macedonian nation, and that part of that Macedonian nation as minority in Greece today has been brutally oppressed ever since Greece occupied 51% of Macedonia. Obviously not being able to comprehend the reality and face the facts, they have simply purposely avoided all of the following overwhelming evidence:



* Documents of the Continued Existence of Macedonia and the Macedonian Nation for a period of over 2500 years.

* Ancient Quotes on the Macedonians as Distinct Nation

* Diodorus

* Plutarch

* Pausanias

* Livy

* Herodotus

* Justin

* Isocrates

* Ptolemy

* Polybius

* Demosthenes

* Arrian

* Ephoros

* Medius of Larisa

* Dionysius Periegetes

* Curtius Rufus

* Josephus

* Thracymachus

* Pseudo-Scylax

* Thucydides

* Strabo

* Pseudo-Herodotus

* Dionysius son of Kalliphon

* Modern Historians on the Macedonians as Distinct Nation

* Greeks and Macedonians

* The Ancient Macedonians and Their Language

* Why were the Macedonians styled as "Greeks" in the 19th Century?

* Why is Greece Stealing the Macedonian History?

* The King of the Greeks on the Greek Occupation of Macedonia

* The Macedonian-Greek Conflict

* Greek Evidence on the Authenticity of the Macedonians

* Map of Aegean Macedonia showing the areas where Macedonians live

* Human Rights Watch International Condemns Greece for Oppressing the Macedonians

* Greek Helsinki on the Macedonian Minority in Greece

* Republic of Turkey Ministry of Foreign Affairs on the Macedonians in Greece

* Greece Condemned for Discriminating against Macedonian Minority

* Aegean Part of Macedonia after the Balkan Wars

* Memorandum sent by the Macedonians to the Balkan states

* Declaration of the Association of banished Macedonians from the Republic of Greece

* Petition Association of the Macedonians of the Aegean Part of Macedonia

* Greek Evidence on the Authenticity of the Macedonians

* Why Macedonia and the Macedonians had never been Greek?



Why are the Greek webpages hiding these facts? Why do they not mention the words of Diodorus, Justin, Pausanias, etc, etc, etc? Why are they afraid to present them to the Internet readers? Precisely because they prove that the Macedonians are not, and have never been Greeks, but a distinct nation with their own language, customs, and traditions. The silence of the Greeks about the above authentic ancient and modern evidence is only a proof of the defeat of their propaganda which the ancients would find laughable.


taken from www.historyofmacedonia.org

[TerraNova]

It shows what Greeks really thought of Macedonia and the Macedonians back then; it refused to name its Northern Province 'Macedonia', and how those views have changed. What it tells us is that Greeks themselves did not believe the idea that Macedonia has always been Greek.

Are you blind ?

[Venom]

Demos, get over your little treaty of bucharest. You didn't win -- it was proven that it can expire due to any number of reasons. You must not mention it again.

TerraNova and Demos, here in the diaspora, which you guys are part of, you used to protest that Macedonia does not exist. Risto said it 100% right, the problems continued here and continue to this day. But you changed your tactic when your government did. You denied there were ANY Macedonians and now suddenly you ARE Macedonians.

Anyways, Risto you pose a super interesting question. Why do you guys act like such apologists. What do you have to gain from it? Instead of having an open mind and being realists, you continually attack anything and everything Macedonian.

For example, Demos apparently can't speak a word of Macedonian and yet he dismissed what the Macedonian historian said in the other thread IMMEDIATELY.

Now it makes me wonder too what your agenda is.

[TerraNova]

TN, I note you avoided the Greek schoolbooks which Bratot clearly identified referring to Macedonia in the Republic. What drives you to be such an apologist? Almost all Greek apologists like you talk "on behalf" of your Government and constantly say "we" when referring to Government actions. Macedonians sit back and say "they" when referring to Government actions most of the time. Perhaps we can both look into this and see why this is the case.

For all of them except one i know they are NOT school books.
When i talked in behalf of the Greek Government ? After all i dislike Karamanlis and his party (they r rights) and i would never vote them.
On the other hand i ve seen hymns to Gruevski-even his shit smells like heaven according to the co-forumers here..

[Jankovska]

For all of them except one i know they are NOT school books.
When i talked in behalf of the Greek Government ? After all i dislike Karamanlis and his party (they r rights) and i would never vote them.
On the other hand i ve seen hymns to Gruevski-even his shit smells like heaven according to the co-forumers here..

Oh would you lay off Gruevski you people, start doing something for your beloved Greece instead of sticking your nose where it doesn't belong. You can't stand Gruevski because he says it as it is, he is still not doing as much as I'd like him to, but hey I am very nationalistic and I do think that we are better than everyone, esspecialy Greeks.

[Venom]

TerraNova you're a fucking idiot.

[Soldier of Macedon]

On the other hand i ve seen hymns to Gruevski-even his shit smells like heaven according to the co-forumers here

Why don't you point out one post of a forum member here that has said the above?

Or should we begin keeping a tally of all your lies and u-turns?

[TerraNova]

Why don't you point out one post of a forum member here that has said the above?

Or should we begin keeping a tally of all your lies and u-turns?

Go to "Gruevski" thread.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Show me where it says "his shit smells like heaven", because that is rather different than admiring or having respect for a person.

[TerraNova]

Show me where it says "his shit smells like heaven", because that is rather different than admiring or having respect for a person.

To be honest...the fact that his shit smell like heaven is not told ...(...YET!)

[Soldier of Macedon]

Oh, so you've decided to be honest, now?

Well, commendations my friend, after 284 posts which were largely fabrications and lies, you have finally decided to tell a truth.

How does it feel?

[TerraNova]

Oh, so you've decided to be honest, now?

Well, commendations my friend, after 284 posts which were largely fabrications and lies, you have finally decided to tell a truth.

How does it feel?

When you check the term "irony" in your dictionary,i ll tell you.

[Soldier of Macedon]

When you check the term 'liar' in the dictionary, I wont have to tell you anything.