Serbs singing Macedonian Songs

[FriendofMacedonia]

Makedonsko Devojce is a fucking classic tune.

[George S.]

i think the serbs are just trying to make a fast buck they are trying to appeal to a wider audience.So over time they have extended their tentacles.Also the recording studios were at the same place belgrade.So over time they received (macedonians) the mentalstimulus to go out & listen to serbian music.Some macedonians never want macedonian music but serbian i would say depends on the condioning they received.

[FriendofMacedonia]

I think the serbs sing these Macedonian songs presenting them as serbian songs with a 'serbian dialect from southern serbia'. Just like bulgarians sing Macedonian songs presenting them as bulgarian songs. They are just stealing our uniqueness as a people and our rich music culture.
I hear alot of people saying "its only music its ok, we shouldnt mix music with politics" but its not the case, serbs and bulgars do mix music with politics and it is very clear.
Its a shame so many Macedonians (especially in Republic of Macedonia) listen to more serbian and bulgarain music than they do Macedonian, its really disapointing to see a fellow macedonian cheering on, listening and singing music of enemies that have occupied Macedonain lands and discriminate us and clearly have no respect for Macedonia and Macedonians.
Serbs just consider Macedonians as 'southern serbs' who speak a 'serbian dialect' and consider us traitors (although it is not made public and most serbs will say thats not the case) and backstabbers to a serbian cause. They dont even recognise our Macedonian Orthodox Church for christs sake! but have the nerve to say " we are orthodox brothers we should stick together" well Macedonias biggest enemies are orthodox so where is the othodox brotherhood?
But again you get people saying "its ok its only music, dont mix music with politics". yeah alright lets try not to. what is more important music or religion? i would have to say religion and i think most people would agree. So why dont Macedonians just go and pray and have ceremonies in serbian or bulgarian churches ? Its only religion right ??????
But is fine to listen to serbian and bulgarian music because its only music right ??????
So all you Macedonians that have that soft spot and get lured by that serbian bullshit music you might as well just start speaking serbian and start belonging to the serbian orthodox church.
Music influences people so be very carefull. But each to their own.

There are more Macedonian artists singing Serbian songs vice versa and I don't think its an attempt to claim Serbian songs as Macedonian ones.

Most singers (we're talking about singers not politicians or military leaders) don't have a hidden agenda, they just preform music that appeals to them. I'm sure there are some that do sings these songs because they believe Macedonians are Serbs, but most probably don't give a rat's ass about ethnicity and only care about singing music that fans will enjoy.

[DemirHisarski_Vojvoda]

Thank you Makedonarmagedon and RTG, its great to know there are likeminded Macedonians about this issue.
FreindofMacedonia why would Macedonians want to claim serbian songs as Macedonian ?
The Macedonian artists that sing serbian songs most likely do so for the money and requests or they simply think its COOL to sing serbian.
George S. you would have hoped that that slave mentality was lost for all the Macedonians born in RoM after 1991 but the influence just gets passed down.

By the way how many of you have been to a Macedonian wedding where serbian music was requested and played ? many of you have im sure.
What if the tables were turned, it would be interesting to see a traditional Macedonian song being requested and played at a serbian wedding. I wonder how many serbs would get up and dance and sing to it and i wonder if the band members would get out alive.

[DraganOfStip]

[QUOTE=Serbs just consider Macedonians as 'southern serbs' who speak a 'serbian dialect' [/QUOTE]
I don't think that ALL Serbs consider Macedonia and Macedonians as Serbian land and Serbs,It's only in the minds of SRS (Srpska Radikalna Stranka) and other ultra-nationalist parties and their sympathizers.if it was the general opinion of the Serbian people,Serbia wouldn't have recognized our country,ethnicity and language in the first place (much like what Bulgaria and Greece do).Even the "notorious nationalist" Slobodan Milosevic has always referred to our people as Macedonians.Serbia is in fact today one of the greatest friends that Macedonia has in the world,always refer to us as Macedonians.Even Sebians that I've talked to don't consider us as Serbs.To sum all up,Serbian opinion that Macedonians are Serbians is not as wide-spread as what 99% of Bulgarians think about us and our country.

[DemirHisarski_Vojvoda]

I don't think that ALL Serbs consider Macedonia and Macedonians as Serbian land and Serbs,It's only in the minds of SRS (Srpska Radikalna Stranka) and other ultra-nationalist parties and their sympathizers.if it was the general opinion of the Serbian people,Serbia wouldn't have recognized our country,ethnicity and language in the first place (much like what Bulgaria and Greece do).Even the "notorious nationalist" Slobodan Milosevic has always referred to our people as Macedonians.Serbia is in fact today one of the greatest friends that Macedonia has in the world,always refer to us as Macedonians.Even Sebians that I've talked to don't consider us as Serbs.To sum all up,Serbian opinion that Macedonians are Serbians is not as wide-spread as what 99% of Bulgarians think about us and our country.

DraganOfStip of course its not ALL serbs, but there is an unoffical thought amongst serbs that Macedonians are just southern serbs and it is mostly discussed amongst themselves, rarely being made public apart from as you mentioned hardcore serb nationalists. History shows that serbs have been very hostile towards Macedonians.

DoS its just like saying not ALL bulgarians consider Macedonians to be bulgarians, not ALL greeks consider Macedonia is greek, not ALL albanians want a chunk of Macedonian land etc. and sadly not ALL Macedonians beleive in a United Macedonia.

Milosevic did recgonise RoM for some mysterious reason, probably an individual act and probably because of the serbian-greek plan in the early 1990s to divide RoM amongst themselves project gone sour. If it was a choice the serbian government had to make today we would be lucky to have them recognise RoM under FYROM.
I still dont see how "Serbia is in fact today one of the greatest friends that Macedonia has in the world" when they still dont recognise the Macedonian Orthodox Church autocephaly ?????
As for freinds, well we dont really have any great freinds, i would consider Croatia more of a freind than serbia. I would trust a Catholic Croat before i trust a orthodox serb. Croats have always respcted Macedonians and i think Croatia recognised RoM before serbia did. Remember in the 1920s and 1930s VMRO and the Ustasi collaberated against a serbian dominated kingdom of yugoslavia, they had a common enemy, the serbs. We should never forget and im sure the serbs will never forget who assasinated king alexander karadjordjevic.
Macedonians and serbians today also have a common enemy, the siptari, why isnt there any collaboration against a 'greater albania' ??

The serbians that you talked to are probably freinds of yours and might be good to you on the table but behind closed doors serbs have different thoughts that they do not always express.

[DraganOfStip]

DraganOfStip of course its not ALL serbs, but there is an unoffical thought amongst serbs that Macedonians are just southern serbs and it is mostly discussed amongst themselves, rarely being made public apart from as you mentioned hardcore serb nationalists. History shows that serbs have been very hostile towards Macedonians.

DoS its just like saying not ALL bulgarians consider Macedonians to be bulgarians, not ALL greeks consider Macedonia is greek, not ALL albanians want a chunk of Macedonian land etc. and sadly not ALL Macedonians beleive in a United Macedonia.

Milosevic did recgonise RoM for some mysterious reason, probably an individual act and probably because of the serbian-greek plan in the early 1990s to divide RoM amongst themselves project gone sour. If it was a choice the serbian government had to make today we would be lucky to have them recognise RoM under FYROM.
I still dont see how "Serbia is in fact today one of the greatest friends that Macedonia has in the world" when they still dont recognise the Macedonian Orthodox Church autocephaly ?????
As for freinds, well we dont really have any great freinds, i would consider Croatia more of a freind than serbia. I would trust a Catholic Croat before i trust a orthodox serb. Croats have always respcted Macedonians and i think Croatia recognised RoM before serbia did. Remember in the 1920s and 1930s VMRO and the Ustasi collaberated against a serbian dominated kingdom of yugoslavia, they had a common enemy, the serbs. We should never forget and im sure the serbs will never forget who assasinated king alexander karadjordjevic.
Macedonians and serbians today also have a common enemy, the siptari, why isnt there any collaboration against a 'greater albania' ??

The serbians that you talked to are probably freinds of yours and might be good to you on the table but behind closed doors serbs have different thoughts that they do not always express.

Well,first of all,in comparing Serbian view about Macedonians to the Bulgarian and Greek one,I don't agree with you.I'll give you a personal experience.I used to work some time on a cruise ship abroad and there were many Serbs,Macedonians and Bulgarians.All of the Serbs when talking about us,our culture,our language etc. talked about it as separate ones from the Serbian.However,Bulgarians spread the word even among the non-Balkan employees that Macedonia was a Bulgarian land and Macedonians were in fact "Bulgarians with a speaking disability" who "didn't want to accept their Bulgarian roots due to years of communist propaganda exposure".So Serbian and Bulgarian propaganda are very different.And I still would like some examples from you about those Bulgarians that don't think of us as Bulgarians and Greeks that don't think of Macedonia as a Greek land.

Second,recognition of Macedonian Orthodox Church's autocephality isn't made by a STATE but by other churches.The state and the church are separated in every normal country.And as you know our church isn't recognized by any other orthodox church,but we're not in quarrel with those countries,are we?Politicians both Macedonian and Serbian are always repeating that the church issue is out of their jurisdiction because it's a church rather than a state matter.

Thirdly,collaboration between Ustashe movement and VMRO against Serbian rule isn't of the same nature.Back then,Croatia DID exist as a member-state of Yugoslavia or Kingdom of SHS,and Macedonia was just a part of Serbia.The only thing these organizations had in common was that they were both separatist movements and therefore flagged as "terrorist organizations" by Yugoslav authorities.And I wouldn't rush into declaring Croatia a bigger friend to Macedonia than Serbia,to Croat nationalists Macedonia is something like a Serbian puppet-state (like Montenegro) that had soldiers in YNA during the Croatian war for independence and fought on the "chetnik" side against Croats.When general Stojanovski was made the top man in Macedonian army,many Croat media rushed to show videotapes from him in Vukovar 1991 as a YNA captain.

[DemirHisarski_Vojvoda]

Im not sure if you are a Macedonian or a serbian but you seem to be very pro-serbian and i dont like to deal with or associate with pro-serbian macedonians, srbomani and yugo nostalgists so i wont be answering ALL your questions.
Like i told you i never said ALL SERBIANS, and its not ALL BULGARIANS and ALL GREEKS etc.
You said "to Croat nationalists Macedonia is something like a Serbian puppet-state".... well there possibly is pockets of Croat nationalists that have that beleif but that is only because they know there are Macedonians that are pro-serbian and yugo nostalgic and have a passion for serbian music and serbian language and anything else serbian and think serbs are our freinds etc, so really we can only blame those Macedonians for that. Alot of the Macedonians fighting in the JNA during that time where not there by choice and alot them them actually deserted the JNA. And remember there were Macedonians fighting on the Croat side. Stojanovski is a perfect example of a pro-serbian that got used by JNA to do alot of dirty work. Dickheads like that ruin it for the real Macedonians , wasting alot of energy for a serbian cause. Macedonia and Croatia have never in our history been at war with each other, unlike with serbs.
There is a big difference between someone that is just born Macedonian and someone that is Macedonian from the heart but many people unfortunately will never understand that. I hope you understand.

[vicsinad]

By the way how many of you have been to a Macedonian wedding where serbian music was requested and played ? many of you have im sure.
What if the tables were turned, it would be interesting to see a traditional Macedonian song being requested and played at a serbian wedding. I wonder how many serbs would get up and dance and sing to it and i wonder if the band members would get out alive.

Being from the Detroit area, I've been to plenty of both. And both play Mac and Serbo-Croatian music. But perhaps Detroit is a different case: there are many families and friends from the same region in Tetovo who are divided as to whether they are Macedonians or Serbs. There may be a lot of reasons for this, but one may be that prior to the early 20th century Balkan wars, there was only local identities and then suddenly the people found themselves having to choose one or the other. Further, when a lot of people were migrating from Tetovo to Detroit in the 1960s, there was no Macedonian Orthodox Church (and then, as Yugoslavs, they went to the Serbian Orthodox Church rather than the Bulgarian, Greek, Armenian ones). Finally, something about a Serbian priest convincing a certain amount of people from the Vratnica region that all of them are Serbs (that's why there is a VRATNICA Serbian Orthodox Church in Detroit). My dad being from Vratnica, I identify as Macedonian...but many of my cousins and good friends are Serb.

Somehow, to avoid the tensions and to keep people close, publicly a lot of the younger generations call themselves Yugos on top of them being Macedonian, Serbian or Bosnian (the older generations use the term "nasi" in a confusing manner depending on who they're talking to and what they're talking about...if it's a person from the former Yugoslav region, it means Yugo; if it's Serb, it can mean "Orthodox"; and if it's Macedonian about Macedonian issues, it means "Macedonians".) Certainly makes things easier haha. Serbs, Bosnians and Macedonians go to dances and parties together, where all ex-Yugo music is played (though, I've never heard anything in the Slovenian tongue ).

Because many of these Serbs are from the Tetovsko and Kumanovsko region, the accusation of "you are really this" comes from both sides. Just as many Macedonians say that those Serbs are really Macedonians as Serbs say that about the Macedonians. But these are mostly friendly disagreements, and as mentioned earlier, eased by the term "Yugo". Further, problems with many Albanians in the Detroit area prior to and during the Yugo wars in the 90s and 2001 united many of the Macedonians and Serbs in Detroit (though there were incidents...such as when a Macedonian man pulled out a gun on a Serb man (in the parking-lot of the Macedonian Church) who came to a 2001 protest in Detroit against the Albanian terrorist insurgency; I'm unclear about if these two had past conflicts or if the Serb's Chetnik hat pissed off this VMRO guy). Good thing the Priest handled it as calmly as I've ever seen a crisis being handled.

Then, there are those who aren't patriotic and could care less about politics...and just care about a good time. That's the majority of the people I'd say and for them, politics has nothing to do with their decisions as to who they hang out with and what music they listen to.

So, back to an answer to your question...yes, it happens and it happens a lot. But the circumstances to as why and how it happens may be very different in Detroit as to other places.

[vicsinad]

Here's a good example. It's the Macedonian band (Biser from Toronto) playing at a Serb/Mak wedding (the groom is Serb; the bride is Macedonian). The first song played is Serb; the second song played is Macedonian.

Biser in Detroit - YouTube

[DemirHisarski_Vojvoda]

Being from the Detroit area, I've been to plenty of both. And both play Mac and Serbo-Croatian music. But perhaps Detroit is a different case: there are many families and friends from the same region in Tetovo who are divided as to whether they are Macedonians or Serbs. There may be a lot of reasons for this, but one may be that prior to the early 20th century Balkan wars, there was only local identities and then suddenly the people found themselves having to choose one or the other. Further, when a lot of people were migrating from Tetovo to Detroit in the 1960s, there was no Macedonian Orthodox Church (and then, as Yugoslavs, they went to the Serbian Orthodox Church rather than the Bulgarian, Greek, Armenian ones). Finally, something about a Serbian priest convincing a certain amount of people from the Vratnica region that all of them are Serbs (that's why there is a VRATNICA Serbian Orthodox Church in Detroit). My dad being from Vratnica, I identify as Macedonian...but many of my cousins and good friends are Serb.

Somehow, to avoid the tensions and to keep people close, publicly a lot of the younger generations call themselves Yugos on top of them being Macedonian, Serbian or Bosnian (the older generations use the term "nasi" in a confusing manner depending on who they're talking to and what they're talking about...if it's a person from the former Yugoslav region, it means Yugo; if it's Serb, it can mean "Orthodox"; and if it's Macedonian about Macedonian issues, it means "Macedonians".) Certainly makes things easier haha. Serbs, Bosnians and Macedonians go to dances and parties together, where all ex-Yugo music is played (though, I've never heard anything in the Slovenian tongue ).

Because many of these Serbs are from the Tetovsko and Kumanovsko region, the accusation of "you are really this" comes from both sides. Just as many Macedonians say that those Serbs are really Macedonians as Serbs say that about the Macedonians. But these are mostly friendly disagreements, and as mentioned earlier, eased by the term "Yugo". Further, problems with many Albanians in the Detroit area prior to and during the Yugo wars in the 90s and 2001 united many of the Macedonians and Serbs in Detroit (though there were incidents...such as when a Macedonian man pulled out a gun on a Serb man (in the parking-lot of the Macedonian Church) who came to a 2001 protest in Detroit against the Albanian terrorist insurgency; I'm unclear about if these two had past conflicts or if the Serb's Chetnik hat pissed off this VMRO guy). Good thing the Priest handled it as calmly as I've ever seen a crisis being handled.

Then, there are those who aren't patriotic and could care less about politics...and just care about a good time. That's the majority of the people I'd say and for them, politics has nothing to do with their decisions as to who they hang out with and what music they listen to.

So, back to an answer to your question...yes, it happens and it happens a lot. But the circumstances to as why and how it happens may be very different in Detroit as to other places.

Pretty interesting reading. Detroit might be a unique case as far as i know anyway, i have not been their personally but i have heard in conversations that there are alot of srbomani in Detroit. Its good to hear that you identify as Macedonian.
Macedonians, serbians, croats, slovenenes existed long before 'yugos' existed (were created). yugoslavia and yugoslav is a fabricated name and i think it is wrong to use it to identify, especially in the 21st century. 95% of the world should know that there is no such thing now, much to the disapointment of yugo nostalgicari.

[DemirHisarski_Vojvoda]

Here's a good example. It's the Macedonian band (Biser from Toronto) playing at a Serb/Mak wedding (the groom is Serb; the bride is Macedonian). The first song played is Serb; the second song played is Macedonian.

Biser in Detroit - YouTube

Yeah ok ill take your word for it even though i didnt listen to it but you said its a serb/mak wedding (the groom is Serb; the bride is Macedonian).
I didnt mean it about mixed weddings though. odviously at any mixed wedding there would be a mix of music in both languages but would Macedonian music be played at a pure serb wedding (groom is serbian and bride is serbian) ?

Hrm i wonder if they played the song about kralot aleksandar there ?

[Big Bad Sven]

Im not sure if you are a Macedonian or a serbian but you seem to be very pro-serbian and i dont like to deal with or associate with pro-serbian macedonians, srbomani and yugo nostalgists so i wont be answering ALL your questions.
Like i told you i never said ALL SERBIANS, and its not ALL BULGARIANS and ALL GREEKS etc.
You said "to Croat nationalists Macedonia is something like a Serbian puppet-state".... well there possibly is pockets of Croat nationalists that have that beleif but that is only because they know there are Macedonians that are pro-serbian and yugo nostalgic and have a passion for serbian music and serbian language and anything else serbian and think serbs are our freinds etc, so really we can only blame those Macedonians for that. Alot of the Macedonians fighting in the JNA during that time where not there by choice and alot them them actually deserted the JNA. And remember there were Macedonians fighting on the Croat side. Stojanovski is a perfect example of a pro-serbian that got used by JNA to do alot of dirty work. Dickheads like that ruin it for the real Macedonians , wasting alot of energy for a serbian cause. Macedonia and Croatia have never in our history been at war with each other, unlike with serbs.
There is a big difference between someone that is just born Macedonian and someone that is Macedonian from the heart but many people unfortunately will never understand that. I hope you understand.

Seems like he is a lad from macedonia, so his pro-serbian view doesn't surprise me. Its surprising that 20+ years since the fall of Yugoslavia lot of macedonians in Rep of macedonia have a strong serbian worshiping mentality. A lot of my cousins are like that.
I get the impression that because serbs are "cool" in that they are "tough" war torn hard people, and they produce "good" music, a lot of macedonians want to be like them.

Most macedonians in europe seem to have a warped romantic feeling towards big brother serbia, im guessing its because they only know a handful of serbs and get along well, or they go to belgrade or Vojvodina and get wasted at Ceca concerts and think serbian people are fantastic. Growing up amongst a big chetnik community i can tell you these people secretly hate us and mock us and dont respect us. Im not saying all serbs are bad or anti macedonia, but remember the national serbian policy is for macedonia not to exist, and a lot of serbians are very nationalist people.

Of course, if you dont believe me you can just go on serbian forums or go on youtube and watch the many serbian videos of macedonia being a part of greater serbia. You can see how much our serbian brother love us.

In regards to serbia recognizing macedonia, when you look at it all former YU countries recognized macedonia almost immediately excepot for serbia. Then almost all former communist countries and Russia and China recognized macedonia. Serbia only recognized macedonia in 1996. I personally think that Russia and most of eastern europe recognizing macedonia made serbia change its mind. Maybe serbian being isolated at that time needed some friends.

LOL at Dragan thinking Milosovic was a good friend of macedonia. He mockingly called macedonians as "little serbs",and other nationalist serbs like arkan and sejsel are well documented in wanting the destruction of macedonia.

There is a small minority of Croatian idiots out there who might have some bad things to say about macedonians, but almost every croat i met has told me that he loves macedonian people. But i guess you cant blame some croats for being skeptical of macedonians, especially when macedonians worship serbian people/culture/music/sports etc

[vicsinad]

Yeah ok ill take your word for it even though i didnt listen to it but you said its a serb/mak wedding (the groom is Serb; the bride is Macedonian).
I didnt mean it about mixed weddings though. odviously at any mixed wedding there would be a mix of music in both languages but would Macedonian music be played at a pure serb wedding (groom is serbian and bride is serbian) ?

Oops...you're right, not that good of an example

But yes, Macedonian music is played at the pure Serb weddings I've been to (but then again, the ones I've been to are those Serbs from Tetovsko region, so the wedding party will always have many Macedonians there). The three common songs played are usually: Masala, Masala, Svadba Golema, and Raspukala (Navali se) Sar Planina (of course...they're Tetovski people ).

[DemirHisarski_Vojvoda]

Spot on BBS thats what i pretty much wanted to say but you just fine tuned it for me
Your a very switched on Macedonian. Our people need to snap out of it.

spolajti nasio, da si zdrav i ziv. ne se davaj